franco12 wrote:I know the back issue scared off a lot of folks. I was dead set against picking him.

But this is not one of those- who could have seen this player becoming a great talent. Everyone knew he was uber talented, just a questionable back.

But Kevin Knox will be a throw in on some deal this summer, and out of the league the year after.

No team can be held to the fire for avoiding MPJr. He got bad advice from his agent and his medical records only went to a few select teams and then was only done right before the actual draft.

It was a gamble that could have cost him up to 20 million plus on his first contract.

The reason for the gamble is that it protects the agent more than the player. If the agent says let's hide everything, the player and his family can only blame the teams for not having faith in him. It's pushing at the player's ego. If the agent says let's reveal it all, and the player freefalls, which is likely, the player either dumps the agent or **** talks him to all future possible clients.

I still have no ****ing clue why the Knicks picked Knox. He's lazy. He's always been lazy. You don't grab a guy and hope he shows up and decides to finally work hard.

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:I know the back issue scared off a lot of folks. I was dead set against picking him.

But this is not one of those- who could have seen this player becoming a great talent. Everyone knew he was uber talented, just a questionable back.

But Kevin Knox will be a throw in on some deal this summer, and out of the league the year after.

No team can be held to the fire for avoiding MPJr. He got bad advice from his agent and his medical records only went to a few select teams and then was only done right before the actual draft.

It was a gamble that could have cost him up to 20 million plus on his first contract.

The reason for the gamble is that it protects the agent more than the player. If the agent says let's hide everything, the player and his family can only blame the teams for not having faith in him. It's pushing at the player's ego. If the agent says let's reveal it all, and the player freefalls, which is likely, the player either dumps the agent or **** talks him to all future possible clients.

I still have no ****ing clue why the Knicks picked Knox. He's lazy. He's always been lazy. You don't grab a guy and hope he shows up and decides to finally work hard.

Calipari vouched for him. The guy was seen as having lots of raw talent and his perceived lack of motor was considered a function of his youth and lack of playing time in college, where he was behind a couple of more experienced players. In retrospect, he should have stayed at K for another season.

But he actually did well his first season in the NBA, I would attribute his lack of subsequent success not to laziness, but to the general dysfunction of the Knicks. In his first season, Knox had a higher scoring and rebounding average than the epitome of hard work and maturity Mikal Bridges. And a good developmental coach's job is to make a young player develop working habits, not relegate him to the end of the bench.

My picks in the order of preference that year would have been Mikal Bridges, Miles Bridges or a flyer on MPJr. But objectively the Knicks could not afford to pick any of them given the state they were in. They had their lone superstar recovering from an injury, entering his contract year and also looking for another star on his team, as it became clear that he could not carry a team on his own. And the only way of addressing this was to get someone with potential to become that second star in the draft. This ruled out Mikal, because he was seen as a quality player, but not a star, or Miles, who people viewed as a tweener. MPJr was too much of a risk, which the Knicks could not afford given a long recent history of botching it with injury risks. Plus, MPJr was not an immediate solution, it was clear he might have to miss a season or two. Enter Knox, who offered the best combination of upside and health.

I leave out SGA, who I think surprised just about everyone.

JesseDark wrote:I was thinking the same thing when I watched the Denver Portland games. The media would have been all over the Knicks if they would have picked a kid that had to sit out a year. Would they have perused Randle as a free agent knowing they had this kid waiting in the wings?

I’m glad this current regime ignores the media. Time to stop listening to dumb Knick haters on ESPN talking head shows

MS wrote:If Knox could turn into a rotation player that would really solve a lot of problems. He showed some signs. Thibs has his favorites.

Mentally he just seems to be a floater, very similar to Tim Thomas. All the talent just can’t lock in. It is pretty amazing how young him and Frank still are. Maybe it clicks and he starts to take it to the basket more gets a little stronger.

Welpee wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

MS wrote:If Knox could turn into a rotation player that would really solve a lot of problems. He showed some signs. Thibs has his favorites.

Mentally he just seems to be a floater, very similar to Tim Thomas. All the talent just can’t lock in. It is pretty amazing how young him and Frank still are. Maybe it clicks and he starts to take it to the basket more gets a little stronger.

Knox’s problem is he has no lateral quickness on defense

Knox's problem is he has no lateral quickness between the ears and little desire to give 100% effort when on the court.

+100

TLover wrote:Big believer in taking a chance on greatness.. if the Knicks had a competent medical staff and not an empty suit in Fizdale supported by a deer in headlights in Mills, MPJ would have been a Knick.

A truly competent medical professional will NEVER give you a prognosis with a 100% guarantee. There is simply too much uncertainty and individual specifics in this field.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

TLover wrote:Big believer in taking a chance on greatness.. if the Knicks had a competent medical staff and not an empty suit in Fizdale supported by a deer in headlights in Mills, MPJ would have been a Knick.

A truly competent medical professional will NEVER give you a prognosis with a 100% guarantee. There is simply too much uncertainty and individual specifics in this field.

This. Healthcare providers get sued all the time so hedging is a big part of what they do

ESOMKnicks wrote:
Calipari vouched for him. The guy was seen as having lots of raw talent and his perceived lack of motor was considered a function of his youth and lack of playing time in college, where he was behind a couple of more experienced players. In retrospect, he should have stayed at K for another season.

But he actually did well his first season in the NBA, I would attribute his lack of subsequent success not to laziness, but to the general dysfunction of the Knicks. In his first season, Knox had a higher scoring and rebounding average than the epitome of hard work and maturity Mikal Bridges. And a good developmental coach's job is to make a young player develop working habits, not relegate him to the end of the bench.

What else is Calipari going to do? It's not like he's going to **** on his own player and say his program can't produce NBA quality prospects.

Ever go to a wedding where you just know upfront that it won't work out for the bride and groom? That it will very likely end by crashing and burning badly? But are you going to go up and tell the groom that he's on a pure suicide mission?

"You see, my friend, you've got this little metal ring. And you will need to go up this huge mountain that's actually a volcano. And then you need to throw that ring into the center of the volcano. Never mind that actual science means you'd be roasted alive miles before you got to the top. And you see those big ass eagles flying around? They won't help you. Until it's necessary to make the third act work as a cheap plot device. But you need to save the world, my friend. "

Are you going to say that to someone? No, you'll say

"Wow, you are going hiking with that actor from the movie, Rudy. That was such a good movie. I cried for hours afterwards. But when no one was watching. Sort of sucks that one of his brothers was a douche and the other brother started immediately getting blowjobs from his former fiancee. Make sure you use sun screen."

Knox was a lazy **** and he stayed a lazy ****. If the Knicks have something to be blamed for, it's picking him in the first place. See that bride and groom from "It Will Never Work-ville"? They can blame the other person, but at some point, you have to blame yourself for picking a rotten apple and putting in your barrel.

Every prospect in every professional sport has something they need to overcome in their individual situation. No team or circumstance is perfect. You make the most you can out of what you have right then and there. No matter what happens around Knox, he has an OBLIGATION and DUTY to his team to work his ass off. But he has an obligation and duty to his own integrity as a man to work his ass off.

I'm going to be fair here, if Knox gave 500 percent every day, every night, every game, every minute, and he just sucked at professional basketball, then OK. Look at Rick Brunson. That dude had close to no functional professional level talent. But what he had to give, he gave. He carved out a career on fumes. I can forgive a player for just sucking when he literally did everything he could to fight for greatness. I will NEVER forgive a player for sucking, in part, because he just didn't give a ****.

You can't coach being a piece of **** out of someone. You just can't.

Kevin Knox plays like a lazy *******. I'm not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that. I don't demand he be a future HOFer, nor a future All Star, nor a future starter. I don't demand he plays well enough to get his jersey retired in the rafters at MSG. I demand he simply seeks to be the best version of Kevin Knox he can be and have his actions line up to that end goal. That's it.

I am not telling Kevin Knox to go **** himself.

Kevin Knox's own actions, and clearly his inactions, are telling him to his face that he needs to go **** himself.

TripleThreat wrote:
Ever go to a wedding where you just know upfront that it won't work out for the bride and groom?

To continue with your analogy, if the groom is under 30, with a permanent hormone surge, but very rare and sporadic sex life, and very little life savings to lose in a potential divorce, which bride would you suggest for him?

1) A young hot chick with a bit of a prima donna attitude, but whose parents are PhDs from Princeton and telling you she will eventually wise up (Knox)
2) An even hotter young hot chick, really supermodel type hot, but who could eventually turn out to be a lesbian (MPJr)
3) A plain quiet dorky jane, who is nonetheless organized, with high moral principles, will take good care of the kids and make soup every night.

And now imagine answering these questions for a 40+ year old who is at last ready to settle down, have a family, wants some stability in life, and whose idea of fun is a home night with Netflix.

Welpee wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TLover wrote:Big believer in taking a chance on greatness.. if the Knicks had a competent medical staff and not an empty suit in Fizdale supported by a deer in headlights in Mills, MPJ would have been a Knick.

There were way too many red flags at that time. Why do you think the guy fell all the way to 14th in the draft. Think about it for a second:

1) Porter only played three unimpressive games in college.
2) He had a back issue that didn't get resolved after the first surgery so he had to go in for a second procedure. A back issue!!!! Not sure if you ever had a back problem, but its no joke. No way any medical staff can guarantee how any surgery will work out long term, ESPECIALLY back surgery.
3) I'm pretty sure he couldn't work out for anybody pre-draft.
4) He was going to need to sit out his rookie season.
5) Not to mention, personality wise the guy is a bit of a flake.

Hindsight is 20/20, but do you really think we were in a position to take that big a gamble with all of those red flags? Denver won 46 games that season so they were in a position to roll the dice at number 14 especially since there weren't any big time prospects left on the board. If it didn't work out, were there any players on the board they would be kicking themselves over? "Man, we drafted Porter when we could've had Donte DiVincenzo!"

Mikal Bridges had no medical issues and was exactly what we needed that Knox was supposed to be

Supposedly Knox's was impressive in workouts against both of the Bridges guys. Shows you how much stock should be put into those one on one workouts.

It’s like hearing Jets fans gush over Zach Wilson throw 50 yard bombs indoors in shorts and a tshirt with no defenders