smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1400109663912435717

I'm pretty sure I've read several times over the years that opposing GMs are sick of him leading them up the guardian path when it comes to trades- not sure if it's case that he has a lot of writers on his side rather than being well respected, but I could be mistaken!

His record speaks for itself. He made some masterful deals. You know at some point its also on the players and coaches to get it done. I think Danny who I hated as a player really has killed it as the architect of the team. Nobody spoke ill of Kyrie in teh aftermath of him leaving. Haywood injury was a total disaster. Horford was excellent for them. Kemba was a stretch but have to go the moment not two years later in hindsight and covid. It made sense.
No they did not get a chip but he sure as hell did his job. He was no Auerbach but few have been either.

Ira wrote:Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Boston Celtics President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge is seriously considering his future with the franchise and could make a decision to step down, sources tell ESPN.

Here's the juice

Jayson Tatum is the team's franchise player. He is tight with Bradley Beal and demanded that the team get Beal at all costs. The Wizards don't really like any package that Boston has outside of Tatum. A larger 3 to 4 team trade is a complicated fit. Possible but more moving pieces need to line up. Tatum went to ownership. As usual, ownership will side with the young franchise player. Ainge doesn't want to end up like Danny Ferry in Cleveland ( i.e. basically be a secretary who gets all the blame for a star player being an idiot de facto GM)

I recognize Ferry had a brutal time as a player and his time with the Hawks had scandal, but he's actually considered to be a good baseline GM when he's not constrained. He came from the Spurs pipeline and those guys are well groomed.

Ainge doesn't want to leave Boston. What this becomes is a power play to have Celtics fans demand Ainge stay. Ownership are sensitive to when fans are riled up and start making big noise. The league also tends to stick their beak into things and want the franchises to keep their dirty laundry in house.

I think the Celtics have done pretty well. While it's easy to look back now and question some moves, Al Horford, Gordon Hayward and Kemba Walker, at the time and place, were hot properties in the FA market. While Ainge could have hit on a few more picks, he also got lucky. Isaiah Thomas 2 could have signed that moderate extension and killed that team's cap. Horford could have taken his player option or signed an extension offer. Hayward could have taken his player option as well. Ainge doesn't do well in the middle of the draft. That's not the worst crime in the world if you look at his entire record.

Here's the test. Ainge is a better GM than anyone the Knicks have right now and have had in the last 10 years and honestly even longer than that. Maybe Brock Aller develops and becomes a great future GM, but that's not today. If Ainge wanted to be the Knicks new GM, you do it. Is Scott Perry that irreplaceable? He's not. Also he's from a different regime than Leon Rose. He's a holdover to a different legacy.

As a franchise, you hope for a Tim Duncan, a Steve Nash, a Steph Curry or a Grant Hill, players with that kind of temperament. Beal is toxic and will kill that Celtics team. He's a damn good player, to be fair about it, but I can see Ainge not wanting to deal with that ****.

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1400109663912435717

I'm pretty sure I've read several times over the years that opposing GMs are sick of him leading them up the guardian path when it comes to trades- not sure if it's case that he has a lot of writers on his side rather than being well respected, but I could be mistaken!

His record speaks for itself. He made some masterful deals. You know at some point its also on the players and coaches to get it done. I think Danny who I hated as a player really has killed it as the architect of the team. Nobody spoke ill of Kyrie in teh aftermath of him leaving. Haywood injury was a total disaster. Horford was excellent for them. Kemba was a stretch but have to go the moment not two years later in hindsight and covid. It made sense.
No they did not get a chip but he sure as hell did his job. He was no Auerbach but few have been either.

Ainge also offered us Jaylon Brown plus multiple firsts for KP. Jim Dolan saved him that time

The Nets did him the biggest favor ever with the KG trade. Tatum, anyone with a brain knew he was the best player in that draft class. He’s a decent GM I don’t think he’d be a significant upgrade over Perry if at all

shinmen wrote:He offered multiple 1st rnd picks to Charlotte for the right to draft Frank Kaminsky, Charlotte refused.
He's not a genius, he's lucky. The nets deal was huge for them.
He got I Thomas who exploded and played with everything he got, mourning the death of his sister during the playoff and he traded him, that's cold.
Players see that, AD would not be traded there. That's not good management.

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:As a GM didn't he pull off the KG and Ray Allen trades that led them to a championship? And didn't he pull off the KG/Paul Pierce trade to the Nets that yielded assets that maintained having a contending team? I just don't see how anybody can objectively say Ainge sucked as a GM. He may not have maximized those picks he got from the Nets but he has clearly been a successful GM. It's just that his time has passed.

he also signed broken Kemba and oft-injured hayward

very questionable drafting outside of Tatum and Jaylen and Jaylen was looking like a bust early on

For KG and the KG/Pierce he exploited dumb, dumb franchises

1) Hayward averaged over 76 games per season the four seasons prior to joining Boston so he was not "oft-injured."
2) Kemba played 81, 79, 80, and 82 games the four season prior to joining Boston and averaged 25 ppg the season the year before he arrived in Boston. So how was he "broken?"
3) So Ainge is judged by what Brown "looked" like early in his career versus the guy becoming an all-star?
4) Red Auerbach did the exact same thing, exploiting dumb franchises. So does he suck too?

I'm sorry, your post is ridiculous and factually inaccurate.

The Kyrie Trade was brilliant and most stand to logic he resigns. He underestimated how off the wall Kyrie really was. He was not alone. Kemba for a championship aspiring team made sense.
Ainge set the table really well at times. Masterful job. Its like lambasting a team for losing a lead. Does the fact a large lead was created not demonstrate something? Its like a team up by 20 then wins it by a small margin and then blast them for blowing the lead.
Ainge success is why he looks bad now. Chew on that.

Celtics are like Lakers they judge success by banners.

They won one and probably would have one another if the refs didn't screw them in game 6 of the series with Heat.

Going back to Red Auerbach the phrase was that the correct response to a trade offer from the Celts when they call up was to hang up, you'll lose. They have traded well generally exploiting dumb franchises (and yes of course that's fair gaime)

his drafting and FA has been spotty

shinmen wrote:He offered multiple 1st rnd picks to Charlotte for the right to draft Frank Kaminsky, Charlotte refused.
He's not a genius, he's lucky. The nets deal was huge for them.
He got I Thomas who exploded and played with everything he got, mourning the death of his sister during the playoff and he traded him, that's cold.
Players see that, AD would not be traded there. That's not good management.

I Thomas also played with a hip injury and never was the same and never got the money he would have got if he shut it down. feel sorry for him

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Welpee wrote:As a GM didn't he pull off the KG and Ray Allen trades that led them to a championship? And didn't he pull off the KG/Paul Pierce trade to the Nets that yielded assets that maintained having a contending team? I just don't see how anybody can objectively say Ainge sucked as a GM. He may not have maximized those picks he got from the Nets but he has clearly been a successful GM. It's just that his time has passed.

he also signed broken Kemba and oft-injured hayward

very questionable drafting outside of Tatum and Jaylen and Jaylen was looking like a bust early on

For KG and the KG/Pierce he exploited dumb, dumb franchises

1) Hayward averaged over 76 games per season the four seasons prior to joining Boston so he was not "oft-injured."
2) Kemba played 81, 79, 80, and 82 games the four season prior to joining Boston and averaged 25 ppg the season the year before he arrived in Boston. So how was he "broken?"
3) So Ainge is judged by what Brown "looked" like early in his career versus the guy becoming an all-star?
4) Red Auerbach did the exact same thing, exploiting dumb franchises. So does he suck too?

I'm sorry, your post is ridiculous and factually inaccurate.

I've lived in Boston close to 40 years. Celtics have had mostly good years, though droughts too. On the whole they are an exceptionally well run organization

That said, Ainge's drafting history is spotty. just check wikipedia -- easy enough.

Kemba's knees are damaged. Hayward was always dinged -- always (still is).

And even with Tatum, if you think for a moment that AInge knew Tatum would be Tatum, he wouldn't have traded the 1st pick and gambled Tatum would be there at 3.

I don't think a lot of people up here are crying about AInge, they'll miss Brad as a coach though

Sounds like you just have a axe to grind with Ainge personally because nothing you're saying makes sense. Everybody and their grandmother knew the Lakers were taking Lonzo with the 2nd pick so it was zero risk to Ainge dropping to #3 to get Tatem + other assets.

I just laid out how neither Kemba or Hayward had injury problems the previous four years prior to joining the Celtics. If you want to hold it against Ainge for not predicting that Hayward would dislocate his ankle in his first game or that Kemba would develop knee problems, I don't know what to tell you.

no ax to grind. i just live up here and am surrounded by Celtics fans, which is no fun when you're a Knicks fan and your team sucks

and i don't have an ax to grind with you or Nalod either; you both think you have it figured out. I'm giving you some perspective from a local -- take it or criticize it your choice

and if the lakers knew Tatum would be tatum they would have drafted him at 2. he has been great but surpassed expectations whereas Fultz and Ball didn't. if you think Ainge had the foresight to know Tatum would be the best and available at 3 go ahead and think that.

TripleThreat wrote:

shinmen wrote:He offered multiple 1st rnd picks to Charlotte for the right to draft Frank Kaminsky, Charlotte refused.
He's not a genius, he's lucky. The nets deal was huge for them.
He got I Thomas who exploded and played with everything he got, mourning the death of his sister during the playoff and he traded him, that's cold.
Players see that, AD would not be traded there. That's not good management.

Ainge offered multiple mid round picks and projected future mid round picks for a back end lottery pick. The target wasn't Kaminsky. The target was Justice Winslow. While Winslow did not pan out, I can understand the methodology to convert volume for a chance at a cornerstone player, if you believe in him.

Ainge has been lucky. The Warriors are lucky. They almost traded Steph Curry multiple times early in his career. The Yankees debated trading young Bernie Williams many times early in his career.

Isaiah Thomas 2 had multiple opportunities to sign an extension in Boston, certainly not in the "Brinks truck / 200 million range" He made some bad personal choices for his career ( playing hurt) and let's be totally fair about it - he got ****y as ****. He believed a short guy who relied on his burst would keep that burst and teams would believe in that for a max deal. No team was giving him 200 million. He should have taken the money and run with what he felt was a "lesser extension" Let's not pretend that jumping from minimum deal to minimum deal was only on Ainge. IT2 played a part in his own demise and it was more that just some loyalty narrative that doesn't even begin to push the full context. Sometimes you take the money and run. Do you think Lance Thomas wrangled in his head about making tens of millions of dollars so he could try to squeeze out a little more? He took the money and he ran. IT2 played at an elite level and worked his ass off. No doubt. But the person most responsible for taking care of you is you. Not Danny Ainge.

This idea that players will hold grudges for what teams did to other players is horse****. If the Celtics had prime dynasty run Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston and you knew David West and Zaza Pachulia were coming for peanuts, and you could get close to max money and a pathway towards rings and a fat extension later, do you think anyone would care about what happened to IT2? Do you think AD would care?

Players care about rings and max money/max AAV/max years. They could give two ****s if Ainge busted out all over IT2 if they could get all that.

LeBron James pissed and moaned all over Dan Gilbert and his Comic Sans shade public letter and what did he do? He went back and resigned there. LBJ **** all over Cleveland and it's fans and his own hometown. And yet, years later, many, though not all, embraced him upon return.

Zeke, what was left of Donnie Walsh ( very good in his prime but not in his prime with NY), Grunwald, Phil Jackson, Steve Mills and Scott Perry. I just went back a couple of decades. I would be more than happy to have Ainge at the helm for those DECADES than that list of meh. ( I actually like Perry, but to say he's not replaceable with Ainge is insane)

If Ainge decides he wants to work for the Knicks, Dolan should hire him. He and Leon Rose can find a way to figure it out.