I beleive RJ will be ready to facilitate the offense in another year or two, and I'd rather bet on him continuing to progress vs Randle at 26/27 continuing to improve.

Also, I just think your offensive facilitator has to have more speed, better passing and court vision. Even though we're supposed to great defensively, we can't swarm Trae but the Hawks (not great defensively) can swarm Randle b/c he's a slow to average speed PF. Can't swarm a Zack Lavine who dominates the ball because he's fast enough and a threat from 35 feet in. Randle did really improve his outside shooting but he's ISO focused and the game slows down when he has the ball.

I give credit to Randle as I think he's really good as a PF trying to run an offense, just think if you replaced the sets with a PG, SG or SF we'd have much better pace, ball movement and floor spacing.

Bonus - we could play Toppin some and be more balanced offensively.

Should his struggles cost him? Yes, same with the rest, but it won’t mean much unless the Knicks trade him.

If we lose strong a top free agent might think I want to Rock with the Knicks. They just need me.

Expectations: Randle is an all star, not a god.

Here’s one: Trade Randle for Jimmy BUtler straight up? Litmus test.

xblvdels3 wrote:If you trade Randle it’s like starting over again and why would a big free agent want to come here?

You trade him if you get a great offer. If we don’t, we don’t trade him.

There is no big free agent so who cares.

I’m in no rush to trade Randle, but he isn’t untouchable at all. This series has exposed a mental concern with him and Thibs that I don’t like long term: Randle thinks he is the star and has to push his bad play because he is the man (spoiler alert, he isn’t) and Thibs lacks the adjustments both offensively and even on his previous D to win. Yes, not having Mitch and Noel doesn’t help, but this team should perform better than they have and instead of improvements, they are going downhill fast.

Philc1 wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nothing should be off the table for knicks regarding Randle. Clearly the 1-3 deficit stings and this is all knee jerk reactions from fans. This was a “Feel good” season, the honey moon is over already?

Here’s one: Trade Randle for Jimmy BUtler straight up? Litmus test.

Nobody has championship expectations, but Randle's poor performance in the postseason is a 5-alarm fire because it's a pretty big indicator that we saw in the regular season doesn't matter. It's one thing to lose because low-end role players don't play well or because young players get nervous, but that isn't what's going on here.

When did Patrick Ewing in the 90’s ever have an abysmal series like this? Answer is never. When did Carmelo ever lay a total dud in the playoffs? Never as a Knick

Randle is not a max player. Giving him a max extension this summer is the next epic Knick quagmire. Trade him now for assets while he still has value and a year left on his deal

This is what bothers me about this series. I watched the 90s Knicks and melo era. Melo got rejected by Roy hibberd and we lost but at no time did he looked confused and uncertatain about his talents . Ewing we came up short a lot. But every game Ewing performance was warrior mode similiar to regular season.

My issue with Randle going forward is his value. Of course he will ask for and want the most for his family. But I don’t feel right about giving him anything above 25m.. my top dollar for him would be 25m... if he wants more then I might lean towards to trade him boat. I’m not flip flopping. I know it’s his first time in the playoffs but the way he is playing really makes you wonder can we go far with his type of talent/defensive effort/basketball position he plays and size/age

Welpee wrote:

Philc1 wrote:When did Patrick Ewing in the 90’s ever have an abysmal series like this? Answer is never.

Well, in '91 coming off a regular season where he averaged 26.6 ppg, 11.2 reb, and shot 51% fg, Ewing put up 16.7 ppg, 10 reb, 40% fg against the Bulls. Also in the '94 finals Ewing went from a regular season average of 24.5 ppg, 11.2 reb, 50% fg to 18.7 ppg, 12.4 rebs, 36% fg.

Oh damn. That's an interesting take. I look at Randle long term and only 1 thing comes to mind, he works on his game. He will improve. Someone mentioned a trade for Butler. Guess what. Butler choked even more. Butler got freaking swept. After going to the damn finals yo! Do you really think Miami is even considering trading him? Haha. That is why they are Miami. They value continuity. So please ,just stop with the trade talk. That would be a collosal fail. Compounding one slip up with a mistake that cannot be undone.

Welpee wrote:

Philc1 wrote:When did Patrick Ewing in the 90’s ever have an abysmal series like this? Answer is never.

Well, in '91 coming off a regular season where he averaged 26.6 ppg, 11.2 reb, and shot 51% fg, Ewing put up 16.7 ppg, 10 reb, 40% fg against the Bulls. Also in the '94 finals Ewing went from a regular season average of 24.5 ppg, 11.2 reb, 50% fg to 18.7 ppg, 12.4 rebs, 36% fg. Then you had '98 against the Pacers when he went from 20.8 ppg, 10.2 reb, and 50% fg to 14 ppg, 8 reb, 36% fg.

I guess this is the point where you move the bar from your original statement to claim you weren't inaccurate?

I started watching in 91... hazy memory there.

The rest we were always 2nd third round eastern conference finals every year.

Your comparing the hawks to teams like the bulls pacers heat and spurs...

Hawks will be crushed by the sixers. If they beat the sixers your statistical point would then be correct. If not it’s an incorrect correlation.

Ewing = warrior

Except the really big game then he chokes lol