HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Haywood would have been great with RJ and randle. That Rose did not get hurt makes our season what it was but no telling the future. FvV over Payton would have been fun also.

For Leonard and Lillard to get here you looking at a mind numbing reduce like The clippers exhibited two years ago. Lillard gonna coat a bundle and Leonard contract will eat a lot. can we keep Randle in that scenario? Kawahi best days might be past while randle is NOW!!!!! RJ is 20, lets grow one, keep Randle and if Lillard shakes lose make a move.
We got a FO that is not stupid to starphuch and leave the role players few. Dolan is not making any melo like deals anymore.
IM not sure I’d be happy if we went a “Clippers Style” redo over night.
Are we not happy with Randle and his growth? That is a great thing. We got a guy THEN he elevated. DRose has been a great story. IQ, a lower 1st round pick other teams missed on for a change. We might focus on Obi but “Damn” we done got a good on later!!!
Writing off OBI is Knick fans still suffering. Its ok. WE not quite there yet.

Prediction. I’m not sure how fast we keep changing but other teams will improve on this weird season and perhaps our seedlings might not be so easy next year even if we improve. I’m not ready to use this season as the benchmark. It might be a bit of an anomaly depending on 100 variables.
Let’s finish the week in one piece and no injuries, see how get seeded. Win or lose I hope we give whomever all they can handle!!!

Would take the kitchen sink but could probably keep Randle. Here is a write up on it:

https://tradenba.com/trades/MaylqSvja

Would probably like plan B and hope to just sign KL but we have had our hearts broken before hoping for a big signing just cuz.

That is a scary trade scenario.

HofstraBBall wrote:Gotta give him a lot of credit. No mater how you feel about the moves or pack there off, he has done something that no Knick president has been able to do in a long time. Who would have believed it? Leon takes Knicks from laughing stocks to playoff team in ONE year.

Gotta give him credit for:
1. Hiring Thibs
2. Not trading Randle
3. Not firing Perry
4. Not starphucking.
5. Letting Thibs get his Vets
6. Decent moves in first draft.
Lmk, if I missed something?

What's everyone's predictions/hope?

The Rose trade (I know you kind of covered it with 5, but it’s been so pivotal and was so low cost it deserves it’s own bullet point!)

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
My predictions, after we win this year's chip is that he extends Randle and tries to go after a couple of Max super players. Knicks have enough assets to make a deal for a team's big star. Which may be enough to attract a second max to the mix. Saw a scenario where we go after Lillard and try to entice Leonard to sign. Leonard expressed the desire to play with Same before. Dream scenario but considering what Rose just did with small well thought out moves, I would not put it past him.

What's everyone's predictions/hope?

If a team was willing to trade a superstar, they'll want RJ Barrett as a starting point.

Leonard wants to decide when he sits, when he plays, when he can leave the team to go hunting for oysters and unicorn feathers and who is on the roster. Also Uncle Dennis will want a front office job. Uncle Dennis is an idiot. Uncle Dennis made demands during the last Leonard FA foray that violated the CBA. The guy was too dumb to even have someone explain the CBA to him before he started asking for gold, diamonds, first born children and people's eternal souls.

This year's projected pick so far will be in the early 20s.

While I quite enjoy Lillard, eating his Super Max into his possible decline phase while giving up Barrett and a ****load of picks might not be the best way to keep building this team.

Leonard will likely want to sign a 1+1 and then you have to do through the entire drama again of "Where will he go? Is he happy ehough?" bull****.

Both can be valuable given the right circumstances but how about just working the draft and seeing if you can just draft the next Leonard and the next Lillard.

Would agree. As the article suggests the Blazers would probably want Randle. But RJ would not be far behind. Think Rose has shown to be more prudent in his team building. Hoping the so called expectations of him coming in and doing something big are overstated. As Nalod mentioned, the Clips are a good example of what is to be expected if that route is taken. Not to mention KL's timestamp is two years older.

As stated, if what the article is suggesting we give up is accurate, I prefer the latter plan B of my prediction. Of course, there is always that ugly head of Dolan. It has not been seen in some time but we all know it is lurking.

sealy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I still wonder what noise we could make if we went all-in on VanVleet. He chose Toronto because he wants to continue winning, and the irony is NY was a better place for him to do that. He would have been a perfect fit on a Thibs team. That being said, i think Leon and Wes are working the back-channel to brag about what they have done in an effort to bring a big piece here to bring this team to the next level next year. We are ahead of schedule but the work is just beginning.

I don't watch TOR at all but it seems like they disappointed this year. COVID. Playing in FL. All of their top line guys missed 20-30 games. Tough situation.

I keep thinking about VanVleet and if he was really worth $20M for 4 years for a team like the Knicks. Fred had some awesome performances deep into playoffs on a team that had a lot of other players who drew attention.

Barely shoots above .500 eFG.
Shoots ~39% from 3 which is decent but not lights out?
Barely got to the rim this year without a bunch of other gravity players?
Undersized but tough defender?

Fred made $21M this year. Knicks had the cap room but in comparison spent $6M, $5M, $4.2M, $8M on Burks, Noel, Bullock, Rose for a total of $23M. Major depth that helped them this year.

Is Fred worth $20M of pure cap space for a team like the Knicks? As a major comparison, Randle signed for starting at $19M.

Randle is a dream signing... its pretty rare, but I think even if FVV signs we still bring some of those guys in or back... Surely Bullock and Rose. The main thing is this offseason we are now locked into that player. It really just depends on who we use cap space on this offseason.

For me the question is, Would Fred's $20M be the best use of the cap space or no? Randle is (now) the high barometer of what you can bring in. Morris at $15M for 1 year got us 4 years of IQ at (generously) $3M.

Even with the revelation that Knicks made playoffs this year, they ain't getting further or deeper into playoffs just cause of VanVleet; they would do better but not move the needle better. Also, no chance at Rose/Vildoza who are lower cost options that may rate out better in the long term.

One would tend to agree with this.

I keep pushing Dinwiddie, Nunn, Graham to go along with Luca and bringing back Rose.

Adding a Dinwiddie would be a sweet get to go along with Rose, Quick, RJ, and Luca.

I look at other young teams (Hawks, Hornets, Nuggets) and hope we fill the roster with versatile 3 and D wings via FA/draft. Resign Mitch and Bullock. Guessing Burks will be the one left out of the fold.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/spencer-dinwiddie-expects-to-decline-player-option.html

Nalod wrote:Does Al Horford get to the Plant based CP3 like fountain of youth as has Melo and resurge his career?
IF so, Thunder still have to pay for him to leave. We have the cap. Its not a Starphuch. Its 53.5mil over two more years and no evidence he can do as I said. He had quite a big drop off and was told to go home for OKC tank. Some guys stay home which is cool. some start rebuilding the body and focus inwards and sustain a comeback. Its rare.
Kawahi? Its a nice thought but RJ is becoming the man here.

Question I have in the "take in CAP for assets" scenario is that the Knicks have 4 picks in 2021 and 5 in 2023. Seems like we are pretty stacked with future picks? Think we are getting close to the point that we have to use some of them. Grant it, I never thought you can have too many and we could always use them to move up in drafts. Especially this summer.

As for Horford, think it is a good suggestion. He had good years in Boston. He is now shooting more threes than ever (close to six a game). Decent success at 36%. He only played in 28 games with OKC and had a non concerning hand injury in January. Guessing his legs should be rested. He would fit in the stretch five need and he definitely is a gamer. Would be interested to see what OKC would offer to us to take him. Is there a chance he gets waived? How does taken in his salary affect the plans of going after other bigger name FA's?

HofstraBBall wrote:

xavier wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Would take the kitchen sink but could probably keep Randle. Here is a write up on it:

https://tradenba.com/trades/MaylqSvja

Would probably like plan B and hope to just sign KL but we have had our hearts broken before hoping for a big signing just cuz.

But I'm not sure that Portland wants to go that route because somehow they are not a team for this kind of rebuilding. Plus, Lillard is the last player they would give in that story.

This second part with Kawhi just doesn’t make sense.

I have to admit that a dream scenario where we bring the two of them came to my mind several times, but unfortunately that is not realistic at all.

Think in this dream scenario suggested in the write up, Portland chooses to go a different route for financial cost cutting. Hard to think the would break it up being so close But in that scenario, Dame is definitely a big cost. $200M for next 4 years. As for KL, he has said he wants to play with Dame. For him, It would be more about that. I don't think chances are very high. Do think Rose tries to go after KL but we know how that has ended in the past. Do predict he signs another name for big money. But hoping we stay with value if we can't land TRUE difference makers.

Rose absolutely should try to bring Kawhi. The story that should draw him in is clear...you see what Thibs did to the average team. They all play defense from the first to the last minute and the team caught the playoffs. All we need is the last puzzle, and that's you.

The problem, of course, is that the Clippers were a very similar team before his arrival. No stars, but they actually had a good result. Plus another star (George) was brought there. Ok, we can do such a trade and bring someone similar. Then there is the problem this season where the Clippers have a lot to say and are one of the favorites for the title. OK, Kawhi left Toronto after winning the title, but it’s not the same. He always wanted to go to LA.

Only a total collapse of the Clippers in the playoffs gives a shred of chances to other teams. But even then, we are not the first candidates to bring him.

HofstraBBall wrote:

sealy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I still wonder what noise we could make if we went all-in on VanVleet. He chose Toronto because he wants to continue winning, and the irony is NY was a better place for him to do that. He would have been a perfect fit on a Thibs team. That being said, i think Leon and Wes are working the back-channel to brag about what they have done in an effort to bring a big piece here to bring this team to the next level next year. We are ahead of schedule but the work is just beginning.

I don't watch TOR at all but it seems like they disappointed this year. COVID. Playing in FL. All of their top line guys missed 20-30 games. Tough situation.

I keep thinking about VanVleet and if he was really worth $20M for 4 years for a team like the Knicks. Fred had some awesome performances deep into playoffs on a team that had a lot of other players who drew attention.

Barely shoots above .500 eFG.
Shoots ~39% from 3 which is decent but not lights out?
Barely got to the rim this year without a bunch of other gravity players?
Undersized but tough defender?

Fred made $21M this year. Knicks had the cap room but in comparison spent $6M, $5M, $4.2M, $8M on Burks, Noel, Bullock, Rose for a total of $23M. Major depth that helped them this year.

Is Fred worth $20M of pure cap space for a team like the Knicks? As a major comparison, Randle signed for starting at $19M.

Randle is a dream signing... its pretty rare, but I think even if FVV signs we still bring some of those guys in or back... Surely Bullock and Rose. The main thing is this offseason we are now locked into that player. It really just depends on who we use cap space on this offseason.

For me the question is, Would Fred's $20M be the best use of the cap space or no? Randle is (now) the high barometer of what you can bring in. Morris at $15M for 1 year got us 4 years of IQ at (generously) $3M.

Even with the revelation that Knicks made playoffs this year, they ain't getting further or deeper into playoffs just cause of VanVleet; they would do better but not move the needle better. Also, no chance at Rose/Vildoza who are lower cost options that may rate out better in the long term.

One would tend to agree with this.

I keep pushing Dinwiddie, Nunn, Graham to go along with Luca and bringing back Rose.

Adding a Dinwiddie would be a sweet get to go along with Rose, Quick, RJ, and Luca.

I look at other young teams (Hawks, Hornets, Nuggets) and hope we fill the roster with versatile 3 and D wings via FA/draft. Resign Mitch and Bullock. Guessing Burks will be the one left out of the fold.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/spencer-dinwiddie-expects-to-decline-player-option.html

What's Dinwiddie's game like?

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

sealy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I still wonder what noise we could make if we went all-in on VanVleet. He chose Toronto because he wants to continue winning, and the irony is NY was a better place for him to do that. He would have been a perfect fit on a Thibs team. That being said, i think Leon and Wes are working the back-channel to brag about what they have done in an effort to bring a big piece here to bring this team to the next level next year. We are ahead of schedule but the work is just beginning.

I don't watch TOR at all but it seems like they disappointed this year. COVID. Playing in FL. All of their top line guys missed 20-30 games. Tough situation.

I keep thinking about VanVleet and if he was really worth $20M for 4 years for a team like the Knicks. Fred had some awesome performances deep into playoffs on a team that had a lot of other players who drew attention.

Barely shoots above .500 eFG.
Shoots ~39% from 3 which is decent but not lights out?
Barely got to the rim this year without a bunch of other gravity players?
Undersized but tough defender?

Fred made $21M this year. Knicks had the cap room but in comparison spent $6M, $5M, $4.2M, $8M on Burks, Noel, Bullock, Rose for a total of $23M. Major depth that helped them this year.

Is Fred worth $20M of pure cap space for a team like the Knicks? As a major comparison, Randle signed for starting at $19M.

Randle is a dream signing... its pretty rare, but I think even if FVV signs we still bring some of those guys in or back... Surely Bullock and Rose. The main thing is this offseason we are now locked into that player. It really just depends on who we use cap space on this offseason.

For me the question is, Would Fred's $20M be the best use of the cap space or no? Randle is (now) the high barometer of what you can bring in. Morris at $15M for 1 year got us 4 years of IQ at (generously) $3M.

Even with the revelation that Knicks made playoffs this year, they ain't getting further or deeper into playoffs just cause of VanVleet; they would do better but not move the needle better. Also, no chance at Rose/Vildoza who are lower cost options that may rate out better in the long term.

One would tend to agree with this.

I keep pushing Dinwiddie, Nunn, Graham to go along with Luca and bringing back Rose.

Adding a Dinwiddie would be a sweet get to go along with Rose, Quick, RJ, and Luca.

I look at other young teams (Hawks, Hornets, Nuggets) and hope we fill the roster with versatile 3 and D wings via FA/draft. Resign Mitch and Bullock. Guessing Burks will be the one left out of the fold.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/spencer-dinwiddie-expects-to-decline-player-option.html

What's Dinwiddie's game like?

If we look at when he was asked to take on a bigger role, he showed he has the ability to play at an elite level. Which was when Nets traded Russell and when Kyrie was hurt last year. He is a big/tough shot maker and very aggressive to the rim. He also showed to be a good facilitator by averaging close to 7 assists average last year when filling in for Kyrie. He is 27 and IF HE can improve his three-point percentage he can be elite. He is 6'5 with a wingspan of close to 6'9" which can be difficult to contend with as a defender. He has already proven he can play in NY. Ie. in a bigger spotlight and media jungle. The biggest plus for me is that he seems to want a bigger role and knows that he can play at a higher level. Wanting out of Brooklyn only proves that, if true. The fact he would get the chance in NY and directly compete with the team he feels preferred big names over him convinces me that we will get his best. Of course, there is a recent injury concern but as mentioned he is relatively young.

2014, when he was a junior in college. He fully tore his left ACL and MCL and partially tore his medial meniscus, a non-contact injury that was supposed to keep him off the court for 12 months. Before the injury, Dinwiddie was supposed to be a first-round pick.

This year it was his right, a partial ACL tear. The talent is there. Of course he wants out of Brooklyn. No money for him there. What is the right amount and length for him? He in that 'Olidipo" space now.
He wants a bigger role? Of course he does. It means bigger money. "If he can imporove his 3pt % he can be elite". THat accounts for a lot of guys.
All things aside, including his annoying the crap out of Silver for wanting to be paid in Bitcoin after being told no number of times, the proof is in his health. If he wants a "bigger role", and who wouldn't with a trio of HOF'ers in front of him he has to go to a team that can give him minutes or that opportunity. Might mean he don't get the money right away. Maybe a make good type of deal like randle got from us. But he was not a double ACL guy coming off an injury. Maybe Miami says goodbye to Olidipo and brings in this guy. We have RJ. Is Dinwiddie a PG that can play along side and ENHANCE RJ? If so, ok. Is Drose gonna be cool with that?
Dinwiddie is a 20mm per talent. But he coming off ACL. Maybe KP has other teams thinking about giving money to a guy like that. Even if he did not want to leave we did not want to pay him before he showed us something. If KP says it was not about the money its kind of always about the money.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

sealy wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I still wonder what noise we could make if we went all-in on VanVleet. He chose Toronto because he wants to continue winning, and the irony is NY was a better place for him to do that. He would have been a perfect fit on a Thibs team. That being said, i think Leon and Wes are working the back-channel to brag about what they have done in an effort to bring a big piece here to bring this team to the next level next year. We are ahead of schedule but the work is just beginning.

I don't watch TOR at all but it seems like they disappointed this year. COVID. Playing in FL. All of their top line guys missed 20-30 games. Tough situation.

I keep thinking about VanVleet and if he was really worth $20M for 4 years for a team like the Knicks. Fred had some awesome performances deep into playoffs on a team that had a lot of other players who drew attention.

Barely shoots above .500 eFG.
Shoots ~39% from 3 which is decent but not lights out?
Barely got to the rim this year without a bunch of other gravity players?
Undersized but tough defender?

Fred made $21M this year. Knicks had the cap room but in comparison spent $6M, $5M, $4.2M, $8M on Burks, Noel, Bullock, Rose for a total of $23M. Major depth that helped them this year.

Is Fred worth $20M of pure cap space for a team like the Knicks? As a major comparison, Randle signed for starting at $19M.

Randle is a dream signing... its pretty rare, but I think even if FVV signs we still bring some of those guys in or back... Surely Bullock and Rose. The main thing is this offseason we are now locked into that player. It really just depends on who we use cap space on this offseason.

For me the question is, Would Fred's $20M be the best use of the cap space or no? Randle is (now) the high barometer of what you can bring in. Morris at $15M for 1 year got us 4 years of IQ at (generously) $3M.

Even with the revelation that Knicks made playoffs this year, they ain't getting further or deeper into playoffs just cause of VanVleet; they would do better but not move the needle better. Also, no chance at Rose/Vildoza who are lower cost options that may rate out better in the long term.

One would tend to agree with this.

I keep pushing Dinwiddie, Nunn, Graham to go along with Luca and bringing back Rose.

Adding a Dinwiddie would be a sweet get to go along with Rose, Quick, RJ, and Luca.

I look at other young teams (Hawks, Hornets, Nuggets) and hope we fill the roster with versatile 3 and D wings via FA/draft. Resign Mitch and Bullock. Guessing Burks will be the one left out of the fold.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/spencer-dinwiddie-expects-to-decline-player-option.html

What's Dinwiddie's game like?

If we look at when he was asked to take on a bigger role, he showed he has the ability to play at an elite level. Which was when Nets traded Russell and when Kyrie was hurt last year. He is a big/tough shot maker and very aggressive to the rim. He also showed to be a good facilitator by averaging close to 7 assists average last year when filling in for Kyrie. He is 27 and IF HE can improve his three-point percentage he can be elite. He is 6'5 with a wingspan of close to 6'9" which can be difficult to contend with as a defender. He has already proven he can play in NY. Ie. in a bigger spotlight and media jungle. The biggest plus for me is that he seems to want a bigger role and knows that he can play at a higher level. Wanting out of Brooklyn only proves that, if true. The fact he would get the chance in NY and directly compete with the team he feels preferred big names over him convinces me that we will get his best. Of course, there is a recent injury concern but as mentioned he is relatively young.

Thanks. Defense?

At 6.6" with 6'9" wingspan you would think he can be a good defender. His defensive rating has been average. With another injury, this may be the toughest challenge. If healthy and with Thibs behind him, maybe he can improve on that end.

Fyi: A 2020 break down of him:

https://www.netsdaily.com/2020/4/15/21222350/film-study-the-case-for-keeping-spencer-dinwiddie