Philc1 wrote:nf

knicks1248 wrote:The problem with OBI is he can only play one position, PF, he doesn't have any skills to play SF or Center

He's a RIM RUNNER/SPOT up 3 point shooter who's best used in an uptempo offense. IMO, it just doesn't seem in like a great fit

Well you can say that same exact thing about a lot of PFs including Randle

Your right and that plays in to the problem with his fit on the roster. Randle is going to play at least 34 minutes. Where do you put him?

knicks1248 wrote:The problem with OBI is he can only play one position, PF, he doesn't have any skills to play SF or Center

He's a RIM RUNNER/SPOT up 3 point shooter who's best used in an uptempo offense. IMO, it just doesn't seem in like a great fit

Obi just needs a competent PG to play next to.

Philc1 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The problem with OBI is he can only play one position, PF, he doesn't have any skills to play SF or Center

He's a RIM RUNNER/SPOT up 3 point shooter who's best used in an uptempo offense. IMO, it just doesn't seem in like a great fit

I'm predicting you'll see more unlocked skills in Obi next season. Also, teams don't always play one style for 48 minutes. Don't you want to versatile team that has guys who can play different ways when the situation calls for it. Heck, look at the current team. We play much more uptempo when Rose, Quickley, Toppin and Burks come off the bench.

Obi just needs a competent PG to play next to.

Obi has recently been looking good in our half court offense. His athleticism and leaping ability has helped with him getting easy put backs on offense after guys miss shots. His 3 point shooting has also been better

BigDaddyG wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:Leon Rose did not inherit Toppin. He inherited the mess that is Frank N and Knox. See the difference? Toppin was chosen. So accountability needs to be laid down on why he was chosen. I honestly don't see many good reasons. Baffles the **** out of me.

There are a few posaible reasons for the pick:
1) Randle was a goner. No one saw his drastic improvement coming and there was too much smoke around the Knicks looking to trade Randle for the rumors to not have some credibility. You also have the those rumors WWW seeking Randle's input on the coaching search. Who knows?
2) Most draft pundits had Toppin, at the very least, as a top 10 pick. Maybe they drafted him off of perceived value.
3) He's represented by the team president's son. There have been players picked for more ridiculous reasons. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. I've read that WWW was a big IQ backer and is one of the reason the Knick's picked him ahead of projections. If that's true, I'm at peace with the Toppin pick. One out of two isn't bad. Also, the book is written on Obi. He's flash some promise lately and he was a late bloomer. We'll see.

Your probably right in terms of Randle status determining the OBI pick.

But i would have had more faith in Randle remaining on the roster rather than having faith in Payton Frank and DSJ being consistently productive, and ignoring haliburton.

Now that you have an all star in Randle, there's really no need for OBI right now or in the next 3 yrs

TripleThreat wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:I have a question?

I know we drafted him 8 not number 1-3..

We have control over him for 3 more years. Why can’t he just be Randle backup?

Why can’t he just be a solid player who alllows Randle to only play 30-33 min a night?

The way I see it he has 3 years to figure out how to be a borderline all star.

There are small number of roles that NBA players must fill in order to be productive, stay in the rotation and help their teams win.

- Superstar offensive juggernaut shot creator
- Floor spacing rim protector
- 3 And D Wing
- Attack/Lead Guard
- Small Ball Pivot
- 6th Man/Offensive Spark
- Backup Point Guard
- Tenured Quasi Coach/Locker Room Leader ( Haslem with Heat, Nick Collision for a long time with the Thunder)
- Glue Guy/Energy Guy ( Shane Battier/Alex Caruso types)
- Pure Defensive Only Stopper ( insanely hard to carve out a career this way)
- Enforcer ( All but extinct at this point)

Time and place is a big deal. Nerlens Noel can't get a long term contract since he turned down that extension in Dallas. However if Noel played in the late 90's, his value would be through the roof. Dan Majerle would have been a much more interesting player in today's time.

What role does Toppin fill?

There's nothing wrong with being Randle's backup if you are a UDFA or a 2nd round pick or a Tier 4 free agent on a "Prove It" deal.

The expectations are higher for the 8th overall pick.

This is why I wanted Saddiq Bey. His fundamentals were already there. The footwork was already there. The three point shot and it's mechanics were already there. The ability to read the floor and use space was already there.

I'm all for letting young guys develop, but why spend the 8th overall pick on a prospect who has so many fundamental issues that are more in line with a 2nd round pick and has no real functional role and whose clear skill set is completely opposite to the established tendencies of your new hard ass defense first coach? Why pick a guy and hope he can clean up his foot work ( how often does that happen at his age and experience level?) instead of just picking a guy who already has indicators of having that fundamental already in place?

Maybe Toppin can work his way into some kind of 6th man, but Quickley is already showing shades of taking that role.

The benefit of picking 8th overall is you get to pick someone with fewer question marks ( In theory)

So yes, Toppin "might" figure it out in the next three years. Then what? He signs with another team and they benefit from the Knicks being their bitch boy farm team? Or the Knicks are forced to give him an extension on very questionable potential that maybe highlights in one year or half a season at the end of his rookie deal?

So rookies aren't supposed to have it all figured out. HOWEVER, indicators on whether you can stay in the league are always evident very quickly and very early. And that's true for all sports. I'm just not feeling it here with Toppin.

I wish him nothing but success because he's now a New York Knick. We all want him to succeed because we all love this team to the bone. But I wish he was someone else's problem.

Some of you have kids or siblings or cousins or nephews/nieces or god children or whatnot. And there could be one or two who is basically an *******. I'm not digging into everyone's personal life, but you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you were not related and obligated to this person, you'd never speak to them in your entire life. People who might be lazy or liars or unreliable or greedy or thoughtless or flakes or entitled or full of drama or just plain *******s. You might love them. You might help them in a true pinch. But the truth is you wish they were someone else's problem. Someone want to call me a dick now for saying that? Because it's true. Some people are just plain ****ing *******s.

That's why if you have a true friend, a true brother, a true loyal and battle tested confidant in your life, you are blessed. Most of you know exactly what I'm talking about. A hard pipe hitting mother****er who is down for you like four flat tires. Ride and die. Bad boys for life. But you CHOOSE them.

You inherit family. You CHOOSE your friends.

Leon Rose did not inherit Toppin. He inherited the mess that is Frank N and Knox. See the difference? Toppin was chosen. So accountability needs to be laid down on why he was chosen. I honestly don't see many good reasons. Baffles the **** out of me.

Sure you can try to counsel and teach an emotionally exhausting selfish douchebag thug of a nephew or a cousin. But wouldn't it just be easier to have an entirely different person who was not such a gigantic piece of ****?

I'm not a believer in Ski Rack Toppin. Because I love this team so much, I hope he proves me wrong.

I'm not so sure, given our beloved team's drafting history, that anything around a #8 pick is supposed to be some sort of elite level anything. We've screwed the pooch just too many times in the draft in the first round. Kenny Walker? Rooster Gallo? Jordan Hill? Michael Sweetney? Nene? Channing Fucking Frye? That leaves us with Frank and Knox.

I'm sure you've played pick-up where you end up choosing for first game because there's just not enough stupid azzholes who showed up at 7am to just shoot for teams. Do you choose nothing but grunt ex-football players who will take every charge, do nothing on the offensive side but set nasty moving screens then and hack people to death on D? I don't think so. You want mothers who can put the ball in the damn hole every effing time they put up a shot.

I didn't watch alot or hardly any of Toppin in college. All I knew is pre-season, "THE KNICKS CANNOT FUCKING SCORE THE BALL BETTER THAN YOUR SIXTH GRADE AAU TEAM". This is what was plastered all over everywhere. So what's available in the draft? The leading scorer in the nation. Imagine that. I'm sure it was a hell of lot more involved than just his representation, but who knows? The kid cried tears of happiness being drafted by our ****kicking, welcome to the lottery franchise. Don't think he needed to fake that.

Cold hard facts; players after Toppin are doing much better. But Saddiq Bey? Player of the Week for the cellar dwelling Pistons? You think that's actually happening sitting behind RJ? Like you said, time and place are a big deal.

He's in our place, let's give him time.

I find it interesting that we have a consensus elite defender in Frank who can't get burn unless half the backcourt is on the IR, and we have a defensive project that gets run every game because... Leon and Thibs didn't inherit, but chose him? Airballs are airballs. I don't get it either.

The Chosen. Interesting theory.

I look forward to your contributions to the numerous KP threads that are still bouncing around.

SupremeCommander wrote:I was team Toppin then, and team Toppin now. He didn’t get the NCAA tournament, he didn’t get summer league. He basically was left to his own devices and frankly hadn’t been shown how to be a pro. Well he’s been shown and he’s been putting in the work and it seems clear to me he’s getting better. He’s also not getting minutes just by virtue of Randle kicking ass and I believe leads the NBA in minutes played. Much like the RJ haters are eating crow pie now, the same thing is going to happen with Toppin. This is the first legit induction he’s had, let him learn and grow, and then once he gets the confidence that comes with that he’ll start looking like Amare 🥧

Welpee wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:2) Most draft pundits had Toppin, at the very least, as a top 10 pick. Maybe they drafted him off of perceived value.

I never understood this premise that the Knicks draft players based on what somebody else thinks of them. I remember someone on this board posted that they felt the Knicks drafted Frank because Dallas showed interest in him and speculated the Mavs played us so that DSJ would slip to them. Made no sense.

Maybe the Knicks drafted Toppin because they thought he was the best prospect on the board when the pick came up. Could be as simple as that. Remember the speculation that the Knicks considered trading up for Toppin?

Could be the case. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of people had Obi as a mid lottery pick and a lot of people thought Obi was a good value with the Knicks pick. It didn't come from left field. Safe to assume the Knicks had a few scouts who felt the same way? I wasn't really thrilled with pick, but I had no say in the matter. All we can do is hope that Obi continues to develop.

Welpee wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I was team Toppin then, and team Toppin now. He didn’t get the NCAA tournament, he didn’t get summer league. He basically was left to his own devices and frankly hadn’t been shown how to be a pro. Well he’s been shown and he’s been putting in the work and it seems clear to me he’s getting better. He’s also not getting minutes just by virtue of Randle kicking ass and I believe leads the NBA in minutes played. Much like the RJ haters are eating crow pie now, the same thing is going to happen with Toppin. This is the first legit induction he’s had, let him learn and grow, and then once he gets the confidence that comes with that he’ll start looking like Amare 🥧

I was going to co-sign on everything you said until you dropped Amare's name. I'm an Obi guy but I'm not sure he can ever get to STAT level.

Just my humble opinion, but if he continues to improve, I like the idea of seeing Randle-RJ-Obi and Mitch-Randle-Obi and Mitch-Obi-RJ front lines