Sign and trade for Ball
Sign Lowry or Conley to a 2 year deal
Trade for Kemba Walker in a salary dump (just 2 years left on his deal)

If we had traded for Westbrook last offseason we have a very realistic shot at winning it all this year

Nalod wrote:I’d like to see Thibs lose a few LB’s himself. Seems he came in fit and is getting a bit paunchy as the season progresses.

If the Knicks keep playing like they did yesterday I could care less what shape Thibs is in

EwingsGlass wrote:
1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

The NBA salary structure was designed to draft and retain your own players. Ball is a RFA so it's unclear what it would cost to trade for him. Giving up 3 future first round picks and two 2nds and the most recent 1st round pick is not the practical way to build a team. I don't think these trades pass the Mirror Test, but for the sake of discussion, let's say they do for just right now.

I don't believe in Toppin, however I do believe you gotta give a rookie more than his rookie year before you trade him, esp if he was the 8th overall pick.

Although, to be fair, if the Knicks were intent on signing and trading for Lonzo Ball ( I don't see that as a good idea honestly but let's run the scenario) I do suppose I'd rather the Knicks sent Toppin as compensation than an actual future pick. But in principle, still, immediately trading your draftees is not the kind of new culture change the Knicks need right now.

I would rather the Knicks used those picks and hoped to draft the new versions of a Lonzo Ball, a Jerami Grant and a reformed Christian Wood. ( Honestly I'd rather the Knicks stay away from the NBA equivalent to Pennywise the Clown. I can see Wood with a little paper sailboat scaring the living **** out of people. The only team I'd want Wood to be on if I ran it would be if I ran the Lannister army in Game Of Thrones and I wanted lots of Starks to die. I could see him burning down an orphanage because he wanted to make some S'Mores before bed time. If he wasn't in the NBA, I'm sure he'd have a nice 2nd career as a Dothraki Blood Rider. Scary )

Philc1 wrote:I want Ball and Ball’s dad wants him in NYC but what assets are we giving up in a sign and trade? Both Dallas picks?

I think it is clear how to approach this. Lonzo is RFA and I think we all agree that there is no point in trying to offer him something that the NOP will not match. They will match every at least somewhat reasonable offer, and a contract that is not reasonable does not make sense for us either. That’s just not the way how we can get him.

So sign & trade remains the only option. I would first see with Ball if he really wants to come to NY and if in principle he wants to, then I would approach NOP and ask what is a reasonable price at which they would agree to do that job. The keyword is “reasonable” because if we pay the full price, we can target any other player as well.

One of our FRPs this year I would give. Both Mavs picks not exactly because who knows what the situation will be like in Dallas in two years.

Allanfan20 wrote:So not only would you give him a very big contract (something I’m not too against) but you would give up assets in order to sign him to that lucrative contract? Hard pass.

How did you read that from what I wrote?

We must first define what a “big contract” means. We would all love to have him for $ 15M per season or less, but that’s not realistic because surely someone will offer him more in free agency. Is Ball or Schroder better for you? Either way, it’s not too much of a difference, and Schroder declined $ 21M per season. If we’re talking about offer sheets for RFA, I believe the NOP would match up to $ 22-23M, and that’s where we’re already entering territory where it doesn’t pay off for us either. In other words, if you want him below that, you have to do sign & trade. But even here the player is being asked and I don’t believe he will agree to something under 4Y / $ 80M.

Now, if we do sign & trade, we have to give something to the NOP, and if you think you can go cheaper than the 20th pick in the draft, then you are really optimistic. I think that for everything below that, the NOP will tell you "ok, then try with the offer sheet that we will match and we will trade him ourselves in 6 months for something much more".

TripleThreat wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:
1) Sign Lonzo Ball. My number is 18mm. Other threads show my reasoning. I think he gets a bad rap on this board, but I think he brings much more of what we need to the SL from the PG position.

2) Trade Obi Toppin and 2 1st picks for Jerami Grant. It’s possible this isn’t enough, but I think Jerami would slot in nicely next to Randle at the SF and could spell Randle at PF when he needs a break. I could add some seconds to this offer to sweeten it. Detroit is currently a train wreck and they should cash in on that asset now.

3) Trade Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox and a 1st rd pick to Houston for Christian Wood. Again, might need to sweeten that offer, but I think he would fit well here.

4) with these trades, Knicks would still have about 20mm to spend in FA. I would bring back Rose, Noel, Bullock and Gibson. I’d fill the balance of the roster with reclamation projects - not sure what Winslow gets in FA, but if we could take a swing at him, I’d be interested.

The NBA salary structure was designed to draft and retain your own players. Ball is a RFA so it's unclear what it would cost to trade for him. Giving up 3 future first round picks and two 2nds and the most recent 1st round pick is not the practical way to build a team. I don't think these trades pass the Mirror Test, but for the sake of discussion, let's say they do for just right now.

I don't believe in Toppin, however I do believe you gotta give a rookie more than his rookie year before you trade him, esp if he was the 8th overall pick.

Although, to be fair, if the Knicks were intent on signing and trading for Lonzo Ball ( I don't see that as a good idea honestly but let's run the scenario) I do suppose I'd rather the Knicks sent Toppin as compensation than an actual future pick. But in principle, still, immediately trading your draftees is not the kind of new culture change the Knicks need right now.

I would rather the Knicks used those picks and hoped to draft the new versions of a Lonzo Ball, a Jerami Grant and a reformed Christian Wood. ( Honestly I'd rather the Knicks stay away from the NBA equivalent to Pennywise the Clown. I can see Wood with a little paper sailboat scaring the living **** out of people. The only team I'd want Wood to be on if I ran it would be if I ran the Lannister army in Game Of Thrones and I wanted lots of Starks to die. I could see him burning down an orphanage because he wanted to make some S'Mores before bed time. If he wasn't in the NBA, I'm sure he'd have a nice 2nd career as a Dothraki Blood Rider. Scary )

At the time of writing, there was an opinion piece that NOP wouldn’t match $18mm based on that number capping them and causing them to lose their other free agents. Currently, I don’t really think that is an accurate assessment. While they may lose Josh Hart by matching Ball, I’m not sure that decision moves the needle for NOP unless they think Kira Lewis is ready to play a role. The heliocentric model around Zion doesn’t require Ball in the same sense that the Knicks running the ball through Randle doesn’t require Ball, but his transition appeal and his 3&D/size make him a good fit.

All stats I see are that they should jettison Bledsoe but if I can see those stats, so can everyone else. He may not be moveable at a cost NOP is willing to pay. So, NOP has a bit of salary cap pressure and will have to make some decisions. Sucks to squander another year of Zion control.

I don’t see the Knicks giving up a trade exception and multiple picks for Ball. They are more likely to rely on player pressure to get the deal done. Ball can always threaten to accept the QO. Play out that year before UFA. If they are trying to force their way to NY, that may happen.

Philc1 wrote:But unless he’s willing to extend at reasonable money (less than what Noel will be asking for) we have to trade him

And I love Noel, but for me Mitch is a better player. Too bad he hasn’t been healthy this season, but you can’t compare this year’s Noel who has Thibs and the whole team dedicated to playing defense with last year’s Mitch who was the only one on the team to play defense and had a historic shot percentage on offense. Give Mitch a healthy season under Thibs and you’ll see what a player he is. In other words, it’s amazing to me that someone thinks Mitch should be paid less than Noel (which I’m more than happy with).

Philc1 wrote:

xavier wrote:

Philc1 wrote:But unless he’s willing to extend at reasonable money (less than what Noel will be asking for) we have to trade him

And I love Noel, but for me Mitch is a better player. Too bad he hasn’t been healthy this season, but you can’t compare this year’s Noel who has Thibs and the whole team dedicated to playing defense with last year’s Mitch who was the only one on the team to play defense and had a historic shot percentage on offense. Give Mitch a healthy season under Thibs and you’ll see what a player he is. In other words, it’s amazing to me that someone thinks Mitch should be paid less than Noel (which I’m more than happy with).

Yes Mitch is better but he’s not durable. I’d love to extend him to but he better ask for reasonable money I’m talking 3 years $35 million

I'm even more confused now. If 3Y / $ 35M is acceptable to you (to me it is), and you wrote above that you want to pay him "less than what Noel will be asking for". So how much do you think Noel should be paid?

As for "durability", Mitch had those two injuries which are both pure fractures, meaning no problems with his knees or back, and now "he’s not durable". Noel missed the entire first season in which he did not play a single game and later had a season in which he played only 30 games.

And I say again, this is not against Noel who I love, but we assume he's "durable" because he was healthy this season, and Mitch is no longer durable because of those fractures. What if Mitch missed the whole season because of his knees?