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Free agency can't come soon enough, Lonzo Ball is the answer
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Knixkik
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4/8/2021  4:46 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BillTheButcher wrote:
fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

^^^ This , improves our team and is realistic of who we can sign ..

I agree. We can also keep Bullock using his bird rights.

C Mitch/ Gibson
PF Randle/ Toppin
SF DeRozan/ Bullock
SG Barrett/ Quickley
PG Ball/ Rose

with our 2 first round picks and early second round pick rounding things out. Realistically I see us drafting a wing, PG, and big man in some order. Roster spots 14 and 15 go to a vet bigman and our hypeman Pinson. 2-way spots for a couple of prospects. I think Knox and Ntilikina are likely gone.

No complaints about Bullock or Gibson, but I would make Noel a priority. Cant undersell what having Mitch and Noel at the 5 can do for our playoff aspirations. Teams would have a hard time driving on us, with no respite when Mitch rests.

Noel is a priority if we only get 1 big free agent. Maybe we can squeeze him into the mid level, but we don't have his bird rights, so he's only likely if we sign just one big name. If we only sign Ball, we can bring him back easily. If we sign Ball and DeRozan, i'm not sure how we do.
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knicks1248
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4/8/2021  5:05 PM
I like Ball but he hasn't elevated the Pelicans and they have Ingram and Zion.

The knicks seem like they are so enamored with Randle running the offense that a PG may not even be that high on their list.

I don't see the pelicans just giving up Lonzo for nothing, David Griff is no slacker, Perhaps a S&T.


They had plenty of opportunities last off season, and GUYs like Haywood and FVV went elsewhere

This FO has been too conservative to think they will max out role players

ES
TPercy
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4/8/2021  5:31 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I like Ball but he hasn't elevated the Pelicans and they have Ingram and Zion.

The knicks seem like they are so enamored with Randle running the offense that a PG may not even be that high on their list.

I don't see the pelicans just giving up Lonzo for nothing, David Griff is no slacker, Perhaps a S&T.


They had plenty of opportunities last off season, and GUYs like Haywood and FVV went elsewhere

This FO has been too conservative to think they will max out role players

I mean he isn't a halfcourt wizard but Zion plays much better with him on the court. I think Pelicans struggles are tied to fact that they play no defense, don't shoot the ball well, and sus coaching.

The Future is Bright!
SupremeCommander
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4/8/2021  8:15 PM
GustavBahler wrote:This is a continuation of the discussion in the Derozan thread. Agree that Lonzo and Derozan could be a game changer. Derozan's ability to get buckets, and share the rock outweighs what negatives he might have on D.

The addition of these two players, while bringing most of the rotation back (and Mitch) Thats a squad good enough to get to the ECF IMO. Brooklyn has to worry more about their stars being healthy than we would, Im guessing. Could come down to them missing a star or two when it matters.

We would have a DPOY level defender at the 5, and All-Star level talent (RJ and Lonzo getting there) at the other spots.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but the more I think on it, I like the idea of singing Ball and DeRozan. I think it’s possible, not some LBJ or Durant pipe dream. I think it is a massive talent upgrade too. Maybe get a restraining order for Ball’s dad

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
EwingsGlass
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4/8/2021  10:36 PM
NYStateOfMind wrote:If he opts out, I prefer Kawhi & Lonzo. Where would that put the Knicks then?

This is the ideal offseason without unlocking an unpredictable trade market.

I think Ball is a realistic option but for his RFA status. The threat of matching may result in us giving up assets.

Kawhi would be awesome, but you gotta question why he would leave LA for NY. We know he loves D, but if he leaves, why wouldn’t he play in Miami with Butler and Bam?

I dunno. My belief in FA is a bit shot. Especially since we couldn’t sign players when we were the only team that had money to sign players... that broke me.

You know I gonna spin wit it
ramtour420
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4/8/2021  11:35 PM
Can anyone here please tell me why in the world would the Pelicans decide not to match ? Let's say we had Ball and he is a RFA next season and he has made such improvements with his shooting. I would think that it would be a no brainer to match any poison pill contract. I mean we are not talking Jeremy Lin over here. We are talking about top 10 PG in the NBA.

The time to get him was before the trade deadline. And the pice that would get us Ball was Michell( i don't work on my game in the off-season)Robinson

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
GustavBahler
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4/8/2021  11:48 PM
ramtour420 wrote:Can anyone here please tell me why in the world would the Pelicans decide not to match ? Let's say we had Ball and he is a RFA next season and he has made such improvements with his shooting. I would think that it would be a no brainer to match any poison pill contract. I mean we are not talking Jeremy Lin over here. We are talking about top 10 PG in the NBA.

The time to get him was before the trade deadline. And the pice that would get us Ball was Michell( i don't work on my game in the off-season)Robinson

Because they would be overpaying him. Considering that Ingram and Zion share the duties at running the point. Not to mention there have been articles about Lonzo wanting to play in a bigger market.

Knicks need Lonzo's services more than the Pels do. The Knicks will overpay somewhat, but I dont believe the Pels will. When they can address other needs.
ramtour420
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4/9/2021  12:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/9/2021  4:30 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Can anyone here please tell me why in the world would the Pelicans decide not to match ? Let's say we had Ball and he is a RFA next season and he has made such improvements with his shooting. I would think that it would be a no brainer to match any poison pill contract. I mean we are not talking Jeremy Lin over here. We are talking about top 10 PG in the NBA.

The time to get him was before the trade deadline. And the pice that would get us Ball was Michell( i don't work on my game in the off-season)Robinson

Because they would be overpaying him. Considering that Ingram and Zion share the duties at running the point. Not to mention there have been articles about Lonzo wanting to play in a bigger market.

Knicks need Lonzo's services more than the Pels do. The Knicks will overpay somewhat, but I dont believe the Pels will. When they can address other needs.


Overpaying? The type of contracts that are given out in the league right now are downright criminal. Don't they have bird rights for all the players that you mentioned? So they can retain their core.

Whoever gets Lonzo will overpay regardless. We have Randle who is like Zion in that he is kind of PG himself. But yet we are so much more desperate? Not sure if I buy that.
And last, it makes no difference what Lonzo wants as he is a Restricted free agent.

It will be interesting but I highly doubt we are getting Lonzo.

Derozan on the other hand is more realistic. However, he is not a good fit on the roster that needs a sniper and a playmaker preferably in one player. Not to mention we have slashers to the rim up the gazoo already.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
xavier
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4/9/2021  4:28 AM
I think almost all of us agree on Ball. But I am still convinced that we will find it very difficult to reach him. At one point at the start of the season, the Pelicans didn’t seem to want him in the long run and were open to trade him. However, I think things have changed significantly and the Pelicans won’t give Ball unless someone really offers him an unrealistically high offer sheet. If they wanted to let him go, they would trade him before the deadline. This way I am afraid that they would match the offer of around 20 million smoothly. If we offer him much more than that, it doesn't make sense to us.

Given that, I would say that the only correct approach is to ask the Pelicans what would satisfy them in sign & trade and if it's a reasonable price, I would go that route. Yes, no one likes to give an asset for someone who is a free agent, especially when you have cap space, but as I wrote, I’m afraid Ball for an annual amount that the Pelicans wouldn’t match makes no sense for us.

Kawhi is a pipe dream so I won’t waste words on him. DeRozan is an OK player, but I’m honestly not sure he’s what this team needs. We would need to pay him a lot, and there is no upside but he can only be worse than he is now. As I wrote, I would rather try to find some 3&D wing with upside. Who would that be? I honestly don't know. DeRozan is the best free agent winger after Kawhi, that’s for sure, but I’m just not comfortable signing him in the long run considering he’ll be 32 when next season starts, and it’s not that he’s exactly the player who will make us a contender. I’m afraid his contract would very soon be like Horford’s who is also a good player, but he just isn’t worth that much at this stage of his career.
ramtour420
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4/9/2021  6:24 AM
If anything I would say that the Pels have more urgency to resign Lonzo. The reason being they have other young future stars. What kind of message would it send to Zion and Ingram if they are unable to retain Lonzo? That's right, no future for Zion and Ingram on the Pels. Stuff like that can result in trade requests from your stars.

So there. I honestly think the Lonzo ship has left the harbor.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
Knixkik
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4/9/2021  6:54 AM
ramtour420 wrote:If anything I would say that the Pels have more urgency to resign Lonzo. The reason being they have other young future stars. What kind of message would it send to Zion and Ingram if they are unable to retain Lonzo? That's right, no future for Zion and Ingram on the Pels. Stuff like that can result in trade requests from your stars.

So there. I honestly think the Lonzo ship has left the harbor.

Don’t underestimate how cheap the Pelicans ownership is.
xavier
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4/9/2021  6:58 AM
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:If anything I would say that the Pels have more urgency to resign Lonzo. The reason being they have other young future stars. What kind of message would it send to Zion and Ingram if they are unable to retain Lonzo? That's right, no future for Zion and Ingram on the Pels. Stuff like that can result in trade requests from your stars.

So there. I honestly think the Lonzo ship has left the harbor.

Don’t underestimate how cheap the Pelicans ownership is.

OK, but if they don’t want to pay him, then wouldn’t they trade him before the deadline instead of letting him become an FA and leave because they won’t match the offer?
Nalod
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4/9/2021  7:16 AM
My guess is they have the basic structure of a deal in place up to the draft. Can’t say its knicks but it takes out unpredictability as any pick in a trade has its place. If might be the lessor of our no.1 pick and Knox for example. Maybe contingent on Frank as well but he has to sign or agree at a price then get traded. I’m just spit balling.
RFA rarely walk and throwing hm stupid money is not a good idea either.
Griff and the Pels ikely shopped him and there is a reason he did not move to Bulls either.
Knixkik
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4/9/2021  8:49 AM
xavier wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:If anything I would say that the Pels have more urgency to resign Lonzo. The reason being they have other young future stars. What kind of message would it send to Zion and Ingram if they are unable to retain Lonzo? That's right, no future for Zion and Ingram on the Pels. Stuff like that can result in trade requests from your stars.

So there. I honestly think the Lonzo ship has left the harbor.

Don’t underestimate how cheap the Pelicans ownership is.

OK, but if they don’t want to pay him, then wouldn’t they trade him before the deadline instead of letting him become an FA and leave because they won’t match the offer?

Well there were plenty of rumors out there right? So it's safe to say they were at least shopping him. If they were 100% planning to keep him than they would have just shut down any rumors. It was well documented he was very available. Ultimately they didn't find a trade for him, so I think they are betting they can either keep him for a reasonable price or still move him in a sign-and-trade. I think they want to keep their options open. Let's be honest, the Knicks will have to overpay bigtime to steal him away, that's just how it works. But how often does a high impact guard age 23 become available on the market? One that shoots, defends, and is a good playmaker. These players get locked up well before becoming free agents typically. New Orleans is trying to cut corners based on ownership. They have lost AD and CP3 over these concerns. Their incredible luck in the draft sort of keeps the ship sailing there. But this is not a well-ran franchise by any stretch.
xavier
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4/9/2021  9:17 AM
Knixkik wrote:Well there were plenty of rumors out there right? So it's safe to say they were at least shopping him. If they were 100% planning to keep him than they would have just shut down any rumors. It was well documented he was very available. Ultimately they didn't find a trade for him, so I think they are betting they can either keep him for a reasonable price or still move him in a sign-and-trade. I think they want to keep their options open. Let's be honest, the Knicks will have to overpay bigtime to steal him away, that's just how it works. But how often does a high impact guard age 23 become available on the market? One that shoots, defends, and is a good playmaker. These players get locked up well before becoming free agents typically. New Orleans is trying to cut corners based on ownership. They have lost AD and CP3 over these concerns. Their incredible luck in the draft sort of keeps the ship sailing there. But this is not a well-ran franchise by any stretch.

As I wrote, he was definitely available at the start of the season, but he played better and better and I’m honestly not sure he was available before the deadline at all. But the media has “decided” that he is still available.

In my opinion, it is one of two options:
1. he is not available at all
2. Pelicans have an agreement in principle with someone as Nalod says

Nalod wrote:My guess is they have the basic structure of a deal in place up to the draft. Can’t say its knicks but it takes out unpredictability as any pick in a trade has its place. If might be the lessor of our no.1 pick and Knox for example. Maybe contingent on Frank as well but he has to sign or agree at a price then get traded. I’m just spit balling.
RFA rarely walk and throwing hm stupid money is not a good idea either.
Griff and the Pels ikely shopped him and there is a reason he did not move to Bulls either.

I don’t believe there is a third option because then they should have trade him for what someone offered before the deadline.
knicks1248
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4/9/2021  9:24 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Can anyone here please tell me why in the world would the Pelicans decide not to match ? Let's say we had Ball and he is a RFA next season and he has made such improvements with his shooting. I would think that it would be a no brainer to match any poison pill contract. I mean we are not talking Jeremy Lin over here. We are talking about top 10 PG in the NBA.

The time to get him was before the trade deadline. And the pice that would get us Ball was Michell( i don't work on my game in the off-season)Robinson

Because they would be overpaying him. Considering that Ingram and Zion share the duties at running the point. Not to mention there have been articles about Lonzo wanting to play in a bigger market.

Knicks need Lonzo's services more than the Pels do. The Knicks will overpay somewhat, but I dont believe the Pels will. When they can address other needs.


Overpaying? The type of contracts that are given out in the league right now are downright criminal. Don't they have bird rights for all the players that you mentioned? So they can retain their core.

Whoever gets Lonzo will overpay regardless. We have Randle who is like Zion in that he is kind of PG himself. But yet we are so much more desperate? Not sure if I buy that.
And last, it makes no difference what Lonzo wants as he is a Restricted free agent.

It will be interesting but I highly doubt we are getting Lonzo.

Derozan on the other hand is more realistic. However, he is not a good fit on the roster that needs a sniper and a playmaker preferably in one player. Not to mention we have slashers to the rim up the gazoo already.

The problem the Pels have is that they have Kira, Bledsoe, Nickeil Alexander Walker, Lonzo, josh hart....Too many combo guards

I'm almost sure they wanted Mitch in the trade for lonza prior to the deadline

ES
Nalod
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4/9/2021  9:32 AM
xavier wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Well there were plenty of rumors out there right? So it's safe to say they were at least shopping him. If they were 100% planning to keep him than they would have just shut down any rumors. It was well documented he was very available. Ultimately they didn't find a trade for him, so I think they are betting they can either keep him for a reasonable price or still move him in a sign-and-trade. I think they want to keep their options open. Let's be honest, the Knicks will have to overpay bigtime to steal him away, that's just how it works. But how often does a high impact guard age 23 become available on the market? One that shoots, defends, and is a good playmaker. These players get locked up well before becoming free agents typically. New Orleans is trying to cut corners based on ownership. They have lost AD and CP3 over these concerns. Their incredible luck in the draft sort of keeps the ship sailing there. But this is not a well-ran franchise by any stretch.

As I wrote, he was definitely available at the start of the season, but he played better and better and I’m honestly not sure he was available before the deadline at all. But the media has “decided” that he is still available.

In my opinion, it is one of two options:
1. he is not available at all
2. Pelicans have an agreement in principle with someone as Nalod says

Nalod wrote:My guess is they have the basic structure of a deal in place up to the draft. Can’t say its knicks but it takes out unpredictability as any pick in a trade has its place. If might be the lessor of our no.1 pick and Knox for example. Maybe contingent on Frank as well but he has to sign or agree at a price then get traded. I’m just spit balling.
RFA rarely walk and throwing hm stupid money is not a good idea either.
Griff and the Pels ikely shopped him and there is a reason he did not move to Bulls either.

I don’t believe there is a third option because then they should have trade him for what someone offered before the deadline.

IF picks are involved and there is a chance knicks or teh Dallas picks freakishly moves up you can’t trade that until the lottery order is set. Same for any other team that might be offering a pick.
At the same time there might be a deal or two contingent on Ball moving. There are enough scenarios to make the head spin. Also and perhaps important with a condensed season (Little practice time) making a deadline deal might not be so attractive this year to a guy like Thibs.
For all we know our FO might be toying with the idea of moving Randle as part of a bigger deal. Why? 100 reasons pro and con. Maybe a team like Portland pushes its chips into the middle and can offer a three team deal were we get some nice pieces back on a player that cost us nothing.
Nothing is off the table with the knicks. Closest would be RJ.
Nalod
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4/9/2021  11:46 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Can anyone here please tell me why in the world would the Pelicans decide not to match ? Let's say we had Ball and he is a RFA next season and he has made such improvements with his shooting. I would think that it would be a no brainer to match any poison pill contract. I mean we are not talking Jeremy Lin over here. We are talking about top 10 PG in the NBA.

The time to get him was before the trade deadline. And the pice that would get us Ball was Michell( i don't work on my game in the off-season)Robinson

Because they would be overpaying him. Considering that Ingram and Zion share the duties at running the point. Not to mention there have been articles about Lonzo wanting to play in a bigger market.

Knicks need Lonzo's services more than the Pels do. The Knicks will overpay somewhat, but I dont believe the Pels will. When they can address other needs.


Overpaying? The type of contracts that are given out in the league right now are downright criminal. Don't they have bird rights for all the players that you mentioned? So they can retain their core.

Whoever gets Lonzo will overpay regardless. We have Randle who is like Zion in that he is kind of PG himself. But yet we are so much more desperate? Not sure if I buy that.
And last, it makes no difference what Lonzo wants as he is a Restricted free agent.

It will be interesting but I highly doubt we are getting Lonzo.

Derozan on the other hand is more realistic. However, he is not a good fit on the roster that needs a sniper and a playmaker preferably in one player. Not to mention we have slashers to the rim up the gazoo already.

The problem the Pels have is that they have Kira, Bledsoe, Nickeil Alexander Walker, Lonzo, josh hart....Too many combo guards

I'm almost sure they wanted Mitch in the trade for lonza prior to the deadline

YOur almost sure they don’t have Steve Adams and Jaxon Hayes either.
they have a good stockpile of picks. My guess is they want to consolidate and improve one more piece.
If they wanted Mitch, did they change their minds on Adams who they might have resigned as a trade piece?
“I’m almost sure” is kind of saying “I’m pretty confident in my ignorance”.
Maybe better to just say “I don’t know”.
y2zipper
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4/9/2021  6:03 PM
Yeah DeRozan doesn't make sense here. He plays the same position as Randle and doesn't play far enough from the basket to space the floor. Ball I like a lot more, but what offer sheet does it take?
martin
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4/9/2021  6:14 PM
y2zipper wrote:Yeah DeRozan doesn't make sense here. He plays the same position as Randle and doesn't play far enough from the basket to space the floor. Ball I like a lot more, but what offer sheet does it take?

Huh?

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