fishmike wrote:Randle is fantastic. He's a 2 way player who can score from anywhere and is a great guy. Total pro. All star. We need more guys like him. Not less. He's also one of the strongest dudes in the league.

Praying we sign another guy ready to take that next step like we did with Randle

The irony is that Randle was not brought in at all as a targeted reinforcement ready to take the next step but as a consolation prize after we failed to bring in any of the big name free agents. That's why the contract is such that the team can leave it after only 2 years. And after the first season, most expected the Knicks to get rid of him as soon as possible. But then Randle really made a big step and today he definitely carries the team.

xavier wrote:

fishmike wrote:Randle is fantastic. He's a 2 way player who can score from anywhere and is a great guy. Total pro. All star. We need more guys like him. Not less. He's also one of the strongest dudes in the league.

Praying we sign another guy ready to take that next step like we did with Randle

The irony is that Randle was not brought in at all as a targeted reinforcement ready to take the next step but as a consolation prize after we failed to bring in any of the big name free agents. That's why the contract is such that the team can leave it after only 2 years. And after the first season, most expected the Knicks to get rid of him as soon as possible. But then Randle really made a big step and today he definitely carries the team.

Thats a popular fan narrative but there was also consideration for his upside and if results matter then yes its ok to say Knicks saw it and stepped up to make a commitment!

jskinny35 wrote:For me the issue will be - do you pay a #2 guy the salary of a #1 guy... just because we don't have a #1 guy? I think you don't b/c there goes the money available in case we can obtain a #1 guy in the future. He's our best player no question - I still say we sell high instead of waiting for the two most likely possibilities - he keeps overachieving and we max him out next season or he comes back to earth and we have a player with even less value heading to free agency. It's possible he doesn't hold his on court value but believe he will still want to be overpaid like most hard-working players in the league. And he would deserve it - just don't think we should lock in to 140mill contracts for a very good player. Package/sell high on draft night and try to get into the top 5. Plenty of stretch 4s we could look for (eg Gallo, Lauri) if Toppin doesn't find his game...

The problem is thatn even the #2 or #3 guy will get paid like a #1. It's th way the system is set up. I think think you re-sign Randle with the idea that you need a nother star player. Hopefully that happens sometime during the next 1.5 seasons, when Randle's inevitable salary bump doesn't hurt the cap as much.

Randle is to turn over pron. They just take the ball from him.He is not a #1 go to guy. On a championship team he is more like a #3 maybe #2 if #3 is as good as him with out the TO's

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

I think I would take "Fat" Raymond Felton 9/10 over Payton.

At this point you could ask for JKidd to lace them up today in favor of Payton

BigDaddyG wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:For me the issue will be - do you pay a #2 guy the salary of a #1 guy... just because we don't have a #1 guy? I think you don't b/c there goes the money available in case we can obtain a #1 guy in the future. He's our best player no question - I still say we sell high instead of waiting for the two most likely possibilities - he keeps overachieving and we max him out next season or he comes back to earth and we have a player with even less value heading to free agency. It's possible he doesn't hold his on court value but believe he will still want to be overpaid like most hard-working players in the league. And he would deserve it - just don't think we should lock in to 140mill contracts for a very good player. Package/sell high on draft night and try to get into the top 5. Plenty of stretch 4s we could look for (eg Gallo, Lauri) if Toppin doesn't find his game...

The problem is thatn even the #2 or #3 guy will get paid like a #1. It's th way the system is set up. I think think you re-sign Randle with the idea that you need a nother star player. Hopefully that happens sometime during the next 1.5 seasons, when Randle's inevitable salary bump doesn't hurt the cap as much.

Randle is actually a really appealing guy for another star. Plays D, moves the ball, gravity... most guys are going to look better playing with Randle.

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

I think I would take "Fat" Raymond Felton 9/10 over Payton.

At this point you could ask for JKidd to lace them up today in favor of Payton

I'm waiting for the "Elf makes me miss Chris Smith" thread.

We can revive Tony Wroten

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

I think I would take "Fat" Raymond Felton 9/10 over Payton.

At this point you could ask for JKidd to lace them up today in favor of Payton

I'm waiting for the "Elf makes me miss Chris Smith" thread.

We can revive Tony Wroten

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

xavier wrote:I’m by no means a Melo fan, probably a good part of that comes from the way he came to the Knicks, and regardless of that, I just didn’t consider him a player who could bring the title as the first option. However, do we compare here best Randle’s season (this one) and Melo’s average for the time he was in NY or do we also take his best season (2012/13)?

If we compare Randle's best season and Melo's average, then Randle is of course better, but if we compare their best seasons, then I would still say Melo was better. He was the league's top scorer that season and led the team to 54 wins, and he didn't have top players around him also.

+1
One word distances Melo from Randle on the better scale: Clutch

As stated, let's beat the chopped meat horse carcass once again, since it apparently needs restating: Not to take anything away from Randle this season, because I'm a huge fanboy, but he's not playing with a bunch of geriatric rejects on their last legs of retirement, or the likes of Fishlips, FluTyson and J(ust)R(eally) S(ycho)mith.

Not that Randle's playing with "top players" but RJ, IQ, Bullock, Burks and the rest are much better.

Melo had geriatric JKidd, Camby, Prigs, Kurt Thomas, Weed Wallace, Kmart. 30 and under crowd: FluT, Novak, useless Amare, Felton, JR, Iman. Hot for a minute: Copeland, Ronnie Brewer.

Hard to compare players.

Melo:    37 minutes, 28.7ppg,  6.9rbs, 2.6 assists, .500efg, 38%3pt.
Julius:  37 minutes, 22.9ppg, 10.8rbs, 6.0 assists, .522efg, 41%3pt.

I think I would take "Fat" Raymond Felton 9/10 over Payton.

No you wouldn't, his last yr here was the worst of his career 29% from 3, 39% overall.

But ask yourself this.....Why sign a bench player to be your starting PG, then get mad at the player for not playing above and beyond, and give him a NTC because he gave you a bit of a discount.

This is all on the FO.