VDesai wrote:I don't think we know anything about Toppin at this point. He hasn't truly played in a meaningful way yet. There's gonna be a game where someone is injured and he has to play 30 minutes and key mins and we need to see how he responds. When you're not out there every game you don't play instinctually. Quickley came out more aggressive playing his game and is contributing more and it makes us impatient about Toppin. But Toppin was drafted to a position with less opportunity so he hasn't had the chance to come out and play his game.

I think this makes sense but doesn't change the fact that he's playing behind a solid player in his prime and isn't versatile enough to play the 5 or the 3 at this point. I also agree with the poster that said he would likely excel playing in a D'Antoni-type system as he's a rim runner. Watching him camp in the corners for a World B Free arching three which either is all net or all air is defeating. I understand why he was drafted but don't think he will offer much value on this team as long as Randle is the guy. Only thing that makes me hesitate on moving him this early is I remember watching S.Kemp play as a rookie and he had a similar lost style until he learned to slow things down for himself. While Kemp was athletically/physically superior (vs Toppin) - I do see similarities in how they both play too fast and too slow. Hope he figures it out but it will probably be on a different team since we don't play a style that suits his abilities.

franco12 wrote:Kenny Walker 2.0.

I hope that is the wrong assessment. We've seen flashes of why he went 8 and was hyped coming into the draft.

But we also so flashes from Frank, from DSjr, from others that have come and gone.

We should definitely not be afraid to bundle him up. Knox, Obi, Frank & a first rounder for Vučević? Or something similar?

I have to imagine that packaging up some of the young players that need a chance, change of scenery to a over the cap rebuilding team like Orlando or Washington should be worth their consideration, and that cap savings alone warrants consideration.

1) Both are/were mega athletic.
2) Walker was a power forward in college and the Knicks projected him to be a small forward in the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised if Obi will need to adjust to playing more SF than PF. Walker couldn't adjust to SF and had to play as an undersized PF and physically couldn't handle it.

Fortunately I see the potential difference being Obi has more basketball skills than Walker ever had. Everything Walker did was off pure athleticism.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He doesn’t have good fundamental basketball skills
He’s a great undersized athletic 4-5 in college basketball

So far his athletic ability has had little effect in the nba even though he’s 22-23. He doesn’t have shoot dribble pass skills. He has rim runner skills with a bad 3 point shot abs almost no handle or feel.
Not saying he can’t develop— would’ve been good with westchester picking up game skills — but he’s more of a niche player. I think he might’ve done ok if mike da to I was head coach and played him at 5. Don’t see that here

He was a bad pick for this team. We drafted an undersized Center with no lateral movement skills at 8. The Knicks drafted a guy to play a role he is not familar with and doesn't have the skills to play. There were better players available. I think he would've fallen to the late lottery. Don't understand why the front office was so obsessed with him. I think we should trade him to get a young PG or a SF's bird rights before his value dwindles to nothing

This is why I wanted to trade the pick for a couple of lower LOTTO BALL chances. However, can't blame the Knicks. When Toppin was available at 8 (Which he was not projected to be), I wanted him as well and thought you had to pick him. The shiny object got us again. Think it is a good lesson for the draft. Always best to have multiple chances instead of just one that relies on an overhyped 18-year-old. As you just never know how they will translate on to the NBA.

Btw. for those thinking the draft is the way going forward, they may want to look at teams that have consistently had lottery picks the last 10 years and see how they are doing. Then look at the NEts and Lakers and see how they are doing. While I agree that the draft is the way some teams need to rebuild, it is also important to note that the very good teams make free agent moves that keep them competing for chips. Even if they have to give up those prized fan hopefuls. Think we are are that stage. And yes, it is a scary stage.

Welpee wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:give him a full summer camp/pre-season. Also a true floor general, design plays for him and go from there.

Agreed. Never understood Knicks fans who want to be first in line to call somebody a bust.

Drunk uncle loves to be “told you so”. Can’t stand when a fan gloating on themselves when all they got are keystrokes.

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He doesn’t have good fundamental basketball skills
He’s a great undersized athletic 4-5 in college basketball

So far his athletic ability has had little effect in the nba even though he’s 22-23. He doesn’t have shoot dribble pass skills. He has rim runner skills with a bad 3 point shot abs almost no handle or feel.
Not saying he can’t develop— would’ve been good with westchester picking up game skills — but he’s more of a niche player. I think he might’ve done ok if mike da to I was head coach and played him at 5. Don’t see that here

He was a bad pick for this team. We drafted an undersized Center with no lateral movement skills at 8. The Knicks drafted a guy to play a role he is not familar with and doesn't have the skills to play. There were better players available. I think he would've fallen to the late lottery. Don't understand why the front office was so obsessed with him. I think we should trade him to get a young PG or a SF's bird rights before his value dwindles to nothing

This is why I wanted to trade the pick for a couple of lower LOTTO BALL chances. However, can't blame the Knicks. When Toppin was available at 8 (Which he was not projected to be), I wanted him as well and thought you had to pick him. The shiny object got us again. Think it is a good lesson for the draft. Always best to have multiple chances instead of just one that relies on an overhyped 18-year-old. As you just never know how they will translate on to the NBA.

Btw. for those thinking the draft is the way going forward, they may want to look at teams that have consistently had lottery picks the last 10 years and see how they are doing. Then look at the NEts and Lakers and see how they are doing. While I agree that the draft is the way some teams need to rebuild, it is also important to note that the very good teams make free agent moves that keep them competing for chips. Even if they have to give up those prized fan hopefuls. Think we are are that stage. And yes, it is a scary stage.

Nets and Lakers are extreme cases as they have the best and second best players over the last decade on their teams in LeBron and Durant. We tried to get both during Free agency, we had the money they turned us down without a 1st or 2nd thought. On the other side, the Sixers and Bucks are serious contenders because of the draft so it goes both ways.

Obviously, if a team ends up in the lotto for consecutive years, that team is probably going to have some misses. The problem with us is we continue to fall out of the top 5. Our best draft picks were KP, 4 and RJ, pick number 3. Picking 8-12 or the back in of the lotto is not easy, unless you have top-notch college scouts. We've missed on Frank, Knox and Obi. That has set us back, talent wise. This year is looking like another year where we will be picking at the back end of the lotto or just outside of it. I would be very surprised we keep both of our 1st round picks this year.

We will probably get a better player later because we won't be worried about projections or perceived upside. We will most likely get a player that fills a role and improves the team as a whole. If we get a 3 and D role player on a cheap contract for a few years thats a win.

shinmen wrote:What scares me the most was the FO was supposed to be so high on him, they were thinking of moving up for him.
Props to them for IQ but Obi doesn't seems like an inspired pick.

I can understand being patient with all rookies. Most need a few years to develop.
The problem with Obi is that he brings nothing to the team now. It's hard to give him any minutes.
All our developping rookies brought something to warrant minutes. Frank has his stellar defense and is always at the right place on the court, Knox gives some shooting, Dsj even could break down defenses.

I think he’s more like 6-7 1/2 maybe 6-8. But his problem is fundamental

Welpee wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:give him a full summer camp/pre-season. Also a true floor general, design plays for him and go from there.

Agreed. Never understood Knicks fans who want to be first in line to call somebody a bust.

Patience. Guy has serious hops, in the right situation, he'll get the ball in the hole. His biggest weakness was supposed to be his D, but nobody in this thread's crying about that yet. Getting 9 minutes a game sitting behind SupeRandle on a Thibs team is about where I would expect him to be.

That Skoobydo running style has to go though...

And how many guys were bawling their eyes out happy about being picked here?