martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Barrett is my favorite player in this team. I love his style. But he NEEDS to finish better at the rim, and learn to close out games. He has missed several key shots this season. Also needs to get more consistent.

It's the consistency and decision-making that still make me scratch my head and go more pessimistic than most.

There are so many fast breaks where he puts his head down, clearly with the blinders on, and goes right at defender instead of making the simple pass to teammate for a very make-able bucket. I am going to try to dunk on Myles Turner, one of the best shot blockers in the league, instead of making this easy pass.

Or, literally WFT was that pass, multiple times a game. I get the young guy, almost rookie player, still 20 years old. But WTF with the passing/decision making.

And he can get hot from 3, and then also get another pass while wide open and not hit the rim. I don't even know what that is.

IMHO Barrett will never have a shooters touch. He will grind the hell out of his shooting form and make it mechanically better, but never a natural, instinctive, sweet shot.

Clutch? Hit some free throws at end of game when it counts. At least one of them.

Almost every player in the league makes wtf plays. You seem to be holding RJ to a higher standard while perhaps ignoring the flaws in other players.

?

When the discussion is about Barrett, what does statement "ignoring the flaws of other players" have to do with anything? I am literally talking about RJ and you want me to... discuss other players flaws?

Let's be realistic: RJ, given his age, has probably been in the top 1% of having been coached and exposed to higher levels of play at his age bracket for all kids at 20 years old who are slated for the NBA. His father was a pro player, he has been on the pre-NBA and international circuit for his whole life, and he has had a pro shooting coach for at least 2 off seasons (Hanson, regarded as one of the best). All things that 95+% of kids capable of getting to this level don't have.

The decision making he is executing shouldn't even come into question IMHO, they should be more natural and instinctive at this point of his pro lifecycle.

I've just never seen a player, when so wide open, miss the rim as much as he does. I don't even know how to fathom that

RJ is getting better and doing things he was not good at last year but he should be miles ahead of where he is IMO

He’s shooting 46% from 3pt over the last 20 games or so.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Barrett is my favorite player in this team. I love his style. But he NEEDS to finish better at the rim, and learn to close out games. He has missed several key shots this season. Also needs to get more consistent.

It's the consistency and decision-making that still make me scratch my head and go more pessimistic than most.

There are so many fast breaks where he puts his head down, clearly with the blinders on, and goes right at defender instead of making the simple pass to teammate for a very make-able bucket. I am going to try to dunk on Myles Turner, one of the best shot blockers in the league, instead of making this easy pass.

Or, literally WFT was that pass, multiple times a game. I get the young guy, almost rookie player, still 20 years old. But WTF with the passing/decision making.

And he can get hot from 3, and then also get another pass while wide open and not hit the rim. I don't even know what that is.

IMHO Barrett will never have a shooters touch. He will grind the hell out of his shooting form and make it mechanically better, but never a natural, instinctive, sweet shot.

Clutch? Hit some free throws at end of game when it counts. At least one of them.

Almost every player in the league makes wtf plays. You seem to be holding RJ to a higher standard while perhaps ignoring the flaws in other players.

?

When the discussion is about Barrett, what does statement "ignoring the flaws of other players" have to do with anything? I am literally talking about RJ and you want me to... discuss other players flaws?

Let's be realistic: RJ, given his age, has probably been in the top 1% of having been coached and exposed to higher levels of play at his age bracket for all kids at 20 years old who are slated for the NBA. His father was a pro player, he has been on the pre-NBA and international circuit for his whole life, and he has had a pro shooting coach for at least 2 off seasons (Hanson, regarded as one of the best). All things that 95+% of kids capable of getting to this level don't have.

The decision making he is executing shouldn't even come into question IMHO, they should be more natural and instinctive at this point of his pro lifecycle.

I've just never seen a player, when so wide open, miss the rim as much as he does. I don't even know how to fathom that

RJ is getting better and doing things he was not good at last year but he should be miles ahead of where he is IMO

He’s shooting 46% from 3pt over the last 20 games or so.

Yeah, I don't even know what to make of it. Knicks have played 34 games and his 3pt% for the season is 34%.

martin wrote:Challenge the best shot blocker at the rim or pass off to a teammate for an easier basket must be a year 3 developmental decision-making thing?

Martin - for all your support for Randle - where was he when he was 20? RJ this year has been widely inconsistent but also plays solid defense and usually tries to make the right play. Yes there have been times when he made poor decisions (missing a teammate) but so has spinover Randle - remember last year how many times Randle did that? Even with a lot of improvement Randle still has his moments.

Tunnel vision for both of them I say! For me, the most comforting thing is already knows how to score without relying on athleticism - he could likely plan many years without losing much as he's not exceptionally fast, quick and/or a jumping jack. The most concerning - his shot/form clearly still needs a lot of work to show the consistency needed to be a better shooter. I'm still high on him because he seems like he really wants to be great - all you can ask for IMO.

Here's what I hope for...
RJ in year 1 - show that there is potential/talent worth developing/investing in = check!
RJ in year 2 - improve shooting, free throws and willingness to do more then rely on offensive = still erratic but getting there!
RJ in year 3 - increase offensive efficiency/consistency, tighten up his handle, improve decision-making = we'll have to wait and see

Best case - J. Butler type in that he leads but isn't super consistent from outside. Does all the little things and models how to play hard.

Worst case - D. Derozan type in that he can get hot and will mostly score off penetration but doesn't do enough to impact the wins/losses

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Barrett is my favorite player in this team. I love his style. But he NEEDS to finish better at the rim, and learn to close out games. He has missed several key shots this season. Also needs to get more consistent.

It's the consistency and decision-making that still make me scratch my head and go more pessimistic than most.

There are so many fast breaks where he puts his head down, clearly with the blinders on, and goes right at defender instead of making the simple pass to teammate for a very make-able bucket. I am going to try to dunk on Myles Turner, one of the best shot blockers in the league, instead of making this easy pass.

Or, literally WFT was that pass, multiple times a game. I get the young guy, almost rookie player, still 20 years old. But WTF with the passing/decision making.

And he can get hot from 3, and then also get another pass while wide open and not hit the rim. I don't even know what that is.

IMHO Barrett will never have a shooters touch. He will grind the hell out of his shooting form and make it mechanically better, but never a natural, instinctive, sweet shot.

Clutch? Hit some free throws at end of game when it counts. At least one of them.

Almost every player in the league makes wtf plays. You seem to be holding RJ to a higher standard while perhaps ignoring the flaws in other players.

?

When the discussion is about Barrett, what does statement "ignoring the flaws of other players" have to do with anything? I am literally talking about RJ and you want me to... discuss other players flaws?

Let's be realistic: RJ, given his age, has probably been in the top 1% of having been coached and exposed to higher levels of play at his age bracket for all kids at 20 years old who are slated for the NBA. His father was a pro player, he has been on the pre-NBA and international circuit for his whole life, and he has had a pro shooting coach for at least 2 off seasons (Hanson, regarded as one of the best). All things that 95+% of kids capable of getting to this level don't have.

The decision making he is executing shouldn't even come into question IMHO, they should be more natural and instinctive at this point of his pro lifecycle.

I've just never seen a player, when so wide open, miss the rim as much as he does. I don't even know how to fathom that

RJ is getting better and doing things he was not good at last year but he should be miles ahead of where he is IMO

He’s shooting 46% from 3pt over the last 20 games or so.

Yeah, I don't even know what to make of it. Knicks have played 34 games and his 3pt% for the season is 34%.

He reconfigured his shot over the extended offseason. He seems to be getting more comfortable with it. He’s becoming a league average outside shooter at the very least. And that’s not bad.

His defense is getting better.

The Knicks need to think pretty hard if they have considered trading this guy..... and RJ needs to be more consistent if he doesn’t want the Knicks thinking about it.

Allanfan20 wrote:He is pretty much the definition of an impact player. The Knicks are apparently 18-0 when he has a positive +\- and 0-17 when he’s negative. Nutty stat.

His defense is getting better.

The Knicks need to think pretty hard if they have considered trading this guy..... and RJ needs to be more consistent if he doesn’t want the Knicks thinking about it.

Another underrated factor is Barrett and Randle becoming a good fit together. Their fit was a question but Randle has become a knock-down shooter and Barrett moves well without the ball and has also improved as a catch and shoot player. Their fit looks so seamless recently.

He's really got a mixed bag. On one hand you have the missed FTs the TOs, the bad shooting nights, the wild inconsistency.
On the other hand you have a 20 year old, 2nd on the team in minutes, 2nd on the team in scoring, playing for one of the league's more demanding coaches and RJ's individual improvements are undeniable when looking at the Knicks. RJ is a huge reason the Knicks are 18-17 vs. the 21-45 record they posted last year.

I would not be surprised if this kid with a great work ethic and all around game blossoms under Thibs and becomes some a Luol Deng (downside) or Jimmy Butler (upside) type of guy. He's certainly showed flashes on both sides of the ball and extended flashes.

One thing I noticed is RJ is NOT a graceful athlete, and I think because of that sometimes his athleticism is undervalued. If you watched the recent Minn game it was telling that RJ totally stayed step for step with Edwards, who is an NBA high flier and lightning quick (RJ also clearly outplayed him). Point is RJ is a high caliber NBA athlete... he's just kinda clunky. He can get up, he's got a ton of core strength, a 6'10 wingspan to go with his 6'6 frame... he's got tons of work but we are seeing him get better no? And we are seeing the results in the W column no?

I also cant help but to think RJ/Obi and a couple firsts is as good a package we will see for a high end player, so we will see!

fishmike wrote:the RJ arc will be interesting to follow.

He's really got a mixed bag. On one hand you have the missed FTs the TOs, the bad shooting nights, the wild inconsistency.
On the other hand you have a 20 year old, 2nd on the team in minutes, 2nd on the team in scoring, playing for one of the league's more demanding coaches and RJ's individual improvements are undeniable when looking at the Knicks. RJ is a huge reason the Knicks are 18-17 vs. the 21-45 record they posted last year.

I would not be surprised if this kid with a great work ethic and all around game blossoms under Thibs and becomes some a Luol Deng (downside) or Jimmy Butler (upside) type of guy. He's certainly showed flashes on both sides of the ball and extended flashes.

One thing I noticed is RJ is NOT a graceful athlete, and I think because of that sometimes his athleticism is undervalued. If you watched the recent Minn game it was telling that RJ totally stayed step for step with Edwards, who is an NBA high flier and lightning quick (RJ also clearly outplayed him). Point is RJ is a high caliber NBA athlete... he's just kinda clunky. He can get up, he's got a ton of core strength, a 6'10 wingspan to go with his 6'6 frame... he's got tons of work but we are seeing him get better no? And we are seeing the results in the W column no?

I also cant help but to think RJ/Obi and a couple firsts is as good a package we will see for a high end player, so we will see!

Definitely not graceful - and I think some people hold that against him as a major flaw. As you point out - what he does have is significant core and lower body strength - especially for a 20 year old and enough finesse in his game to be elusive / get to the rim.

TPercy wrote:Up to 34.5% from 3 which is brilliant. If he can be a career consistent 35-37% shooter from there I’ll take it and run. More importantly his TS his trending up as well.

RJ has been hitting 50.0% from 3 since January 15th! Holy Crap!

NYKBocker wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

TPercy wrote:Up to 34.5% from 3 which is brilliant. If he can be a career consistent 35-37% shooter from there I’ll take it and run. More importantly his TS his trending up as well.

RJ has been hitting 50.0% from 3 since January 15th! Holy Crap!

Ooops...I missed the Feb games. Hold on.

RJ has been hitting 47.7% from 3 since January 15th! Holy Shite!

technomaster wrote:Overall, RJ is showing improvement as a player the key areas we hoped he'd improve - his shooting (FG/FT/3pt percentages are all up) and defense.

I looked at RJ's game log and did some math. RJ Barrett has been on an incredible tear from 3pt range for the past 24 games of the season.

Games 1-11: (he ended game #11 0/5 from 3pt; 1/2 from the line)
3pt%: 18% (9/50)
FT%: 68.6% (35/51)

Games 12-35:
3pt%: 46.4% (32/69)
FT%: 75% (63/84)

Given that he's been doing it for over 2/3 of the season, I think we can fairly safely say that he is indeed a better shooter than he was as a rookie. His 3pt% over this 24 game stretch is above Steve Kerr's NBA career best .454 from 3pt range (Kerr averaged 1.8 3pt attempts/game over his career). How's he doing it? He's taking good shots - Most of his 3pt shots are in the flow and with ample room (much like Kerr!).

I think the main area for improvement for RJ is his finishing near the basket. He usually takes a couple of duds in his drives to the basket each game - he seems to expect to draw contact but the defenders keep their distance, leaving him up in the air, with no choice but to throw it up and pray. One thing he'll surely work on is reading these situations better (defenders retreating to guard the layup) and have a better plan. Maybe he's jumping a step early... or maybe he needs to stop on a dime and set himself up for a short 5-10 fadeaway jumper instead.

One other thing for him to work on over his career is establish a post up game. He has the frame/strength to do it - but a team that features Randle in the post will have to make a concerted effort to develop this skillset in RJ.

Lebron anecdote: For the first 8 years of his career, Lebron was primarily a face-up player. Is 6 out of his first 8 years in the league, Lebron's FG% was below 50%. After hooking up with Hakeem for some summer workouts in 2011 at age ~25+, he's continued by shooting over 50% for 8 of the next 10 seasons (including this season).

No wonder the Rockets forbid him from teaching anyone outside of the Rockets organization.