martin wrote:Detroit has the same thread on UltimatePistons.com but it's trading for Julius. They want to trade us Josh Jackson, Wayne Ellington and a protected 1st out to 18.

What do you guys think?

That’s funny and cool they have the same thread and offering us a counter trade lol good joke

They will be good when they are 26

It’s not a laughing matter 😅😂

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The thing about trading for Beal or LaVine is I don’t consider them anywhere near the level of player that melo was when we traded for him, and the cost today will be more. Looking back we gave up what of real value ? 1 first round pick, 1 pick swap and a couple of solid young players in Gallinari and Chandler ? Plus we got back Billups too. Compare that to going after a lesser star today in Beal and you’re talking 3 FRP, 2 pick swaps and probably 1 of our good young players in Barrett or Quickley who I feel are better prospects than Gallinari or chandler ever were. It’s a steep price to pay. If we are losing control over our picks and trading a top tier young player it has to be for a young game-charger who would eventually have a shot at being a top 10 player. Someone like Donavan Mitchell before he resigned or D Fox. The goal should be to use the extra picks and non-core youth to find a player who solidifies this as a playoff team. Then hope the true missing star player comes via free agency because they see a team that is 1 piece away from contender. Basically in proposing Toppin, Knox And 1 or both Dallas picks for the best possible player age 27 or younger that fits and Grant is a good example of that type of player.

The Talent and Coaching melo Had around him in Denver was 20x better than what Beal and Lavine have. They both are worth multiple 1st rnd picks with RJ.

What you also have to realize is that the BULLS are 1 game out of the 8th, and the Wiz are 2.5 games out of the 8th

Lavine is a star. However, it would take a whole bunch to get Bulls to trade him.

I’m not ready to say he’s a star. To me he’s a step below Randle at this point.

Multiple first round picks and Barrett needs to net a player a step up from Beal and lavine.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The thing about trading for Beal or LaVine is I don’t consider them anywhere near the level of player that melo was when we traded for him, and the cost today will be more. Looking back we gave up what of real value ? 1 first round pick, 1 pick swap and a couple of solid young players in Gallinari and Chandler ? Plus we got back Billups too. Compare that to going after a lesser star today in Beal and you’re talking 3 FRP, 2 pick swaps and probably 1 of our good young players in Barrett or Quickley who I feel are better prospects than Gallinari or chandler ever were. It’s a steep price to pay. If we are losing control over our picks and trading a top tier young player it has to be for a young game-charger who would eventually have a shot at being a top 10 player. Someone like Donavan Mitchell before he resigned or D Fox. The goal should be to use the extra picks and non-core youth to find a player who solidifies this as a playoff team. Then hope the true missing star player comes via free agency because they see a team that is 1 piece away from contender. Basically in proposing Toppin, Knox And 1 or both Dallas picks for the best possible player age 27 or younger that fits and Grant is a good example of that type of player.

The Talent and Coaching melo Had around him in Denver was 20x better than what Beal and Lavine have. They both are worth multiple 1st rnd picks with RJ.

What you also have to realize is that the BULLS are 1 game out of the 8th, and the Wiz are 2.5 games out of the 8th

Lavine is a star. However, it would take a whole bunch to get Bulls to trade him.

I’m not ready to say he’s a star. To me he’s a step below Randle at this point.

Multiple first round picks and Barrett needs to net a player a step up from Beal and lavine.

Like Who, an I'm talking realistically, because at the end of the day there isn't a single player in this league who can do it alone.

You Know what your getting when you sacrifice for any of those 2, you have NO idea what your getting in a draft pick or in FA, and we honestly have not done well in either area.

Had we drafted right (Knox #9 and Frank # 8) would have major value.

Knick1248, you are saying 2 different things in this thread. One I agree with and one I don’t. In your first post, you are describing the positive coaching surrounding Melo as opposed to Lavigne. In the next you are implying that Ntlikina and Knox were bad draft picks.

I am of the opinion that coaching and opportunity are essential to a draft pick’s success. I think both Knox and Ntlikina will be successful players in the NBA. I think their trajectory has been both stunted and overstated at the same time. One issue with getting extremely young players is that they need time to mature and develop strength-wise. Unfortunately, I do not think the Knicks previously spent the time developing and coaching these players. The coaching wasn’t effective. Where teams started jamming Knox early, the old FO did nothing and continued to tank. When teams jam IQ, the Knicks adjusted, brought in Rose, and got him back on track.

I think coaching and opportunity are highly correlated to success. You have to have a player willing to work. With Knox, I know he is willing to work. Not hearing enough about Ntlikina, but he seems injured. I’m inclined to see how these two play out...

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The thing about trading for Beal or LaVine is I don’t consider them anywhere near the level of player that melo was when we traded for him, and the cost today will be more. Looking back we gave up what of real value ? 1 first round pick, 1 pick swap and a couple of solid young players in Gallinari and Chandler ? Plus we got back Billups too. Compare that to going after a lesser star today in Beal and you’re talking 3 FRP, 2 pick swaps and probably 1 of our good young players in Barrett or Quickley who I feel are better prospects than Gallinari or chandler ever were. It’s a steep price to pay. If we are losing control over our picks and trading a top tier young player it has to be for a young game-charger who would eventually have a shot at being a top 10 player. Someone like Donavan Mitchell before he resigned or D Fox. The goal should be to use the extra picks and non-core youth to find a player who solidifies this as a playoff team. Then hope the true missing star player comes via free agency because they see a team that is 1 piece away from contender. Basically in proposing Toppin, Knox And 1 or both Dallas picks for the best possible player age 27 or younger that fits and Grant is a good example of that type of player.

The Talent and Coaching melo Had around him in Denver was 20x better than what Beal and Lavine have. They both are worth multiple 1st rnd picks with RJ.

What you also have to realize is that the BULLS are 1 game out of the 8th, and the Wiz are 2.5 games out of the 8th

Lavine is a star. However, it would take a whole bunch to get Bulls to trade him.

I’m not ready to say he’s a star. To me he’s a step below Randle at this point.

Multiple first round picks and Barrett needs to net a player a step up from Beal and lavine.

Like Who, an I'm talking realistically, because at the end of the day there isn't a single player in this league who can do it alone.

You Know what your getting when you sacrifice for any of those 2, you have NO idea what your getting in a draft pick or in FA, and we honestly have not done well in either area.

Had we drafted right (Knox #9 and Frank # 8) would have major value.

Knick1248, you are saying 2 different things in this thread. One I agree with and one I don’t. In your first post, you are describing the positive coaching surrounding Melo as opposed to Lavigne. In the next you are implying that Ntlikina and Knox were bad draft picks.

I am of the opinion that coaching and opportunity are essential to a draft pick’s success. I think both Knox and Ntlikina will be successful players in the NBA. I think their trajectory has been both stunted and overstated at the same time. One issue with getting extremely young players is that they need time to mature and develop strength-wise. Unfortunately, I do not think the Knicks previously spent the time developing and coaching these players. The coaching wasn’t effective. Where teams started jamming Knox early, the old FO did nothing and continued to tank. When teams jam IQ, the Knicks adjusted, brought in Rose, and got him back on track.

I think coaching and opportunity are highly correlated to success. You have to have a player willing to work. With Knox, I know he is willing to work. Not hearing enough about Ntlikina, but he seems injured. I’m inclined to see how these two play out...

Not too many stars win championship with the teams that drafted them, in fact you can them on your fingers.

BY the time knox and frank(if ever) are consistent impactful contributors they will be on they're 3rd team just like Jerami Grant, and 75% of role players (see our own randle, who the lakers traded for AD and won a championship ).

Right Now the East is wide open, there's no dynasty in making , there's no unbeatable team, no dominate team.

The knicks need at least one or 2 players now, thats playing on Randles level.

The knicks drafted Knox and frank while they were super young as if they were super talented like a LBJ, Kobe or KG.

Now you want to sit here and wait a total of 7 yrs to develop them, because they are 3 or 4 yrs away from impact ply

So in hindsight i could have traded those picks for a player playing AT KP or Melo's level at the time.

martin wrote:Detroit has the same thread on UltimatePistons.com but it's trading for Julius. They want to trade us Josh Jackson, Wayne Ellington and a protected 1st out to 18.

What do you guys think?

Leave out the protection on the 2021 1st rounder, add J.Grant and you have a deal :)

HofstraBBall wrote:Watched a lot of Grant when he was in OKC. Think he is best suited to play PF. Can stretch the floor a bit although his shooting from three is probably a 37% at best. He really does not create on his own. More of a weak side cutter and slasher. Does have a good motor and is active. But would question his fit with MR, Randle and I guess moving RJ to SG? Assuming that is with a shooting upgrade at PG?

If you are already going into a serious trade, then at the same time, not necessarily in one trade of course, you should target two players one of whom must be a passing PG. Now, can we put together two such packages and still have some players to play with the new ones? I'm honestly not sure. As I wrote, I'm afraid we're not there yet.

The problem is that our picks looked like a great trade bait at the beginning of the season. But the Knicks are on the verge of entering the playoffs and therefore our picks worth much less now. If we make a move and get good player, we will very likely enter the playoffs, but it also means that the picks no longer have any huge value as trade resources.

If the Knicks give Robinson or Barrett in such a trade, not to mention both, what do you have left? You get one quality player, but you have more holes in the team than before that trade.

Not to be misunderstood, I’m not for hoarding resources like Ainge does who should have pulled the trigger a long time ago and brought in a star instead of trying to "win" every trade.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

xavier wrote:Jerami is a very good player, but I'm afraid you greatly underestimate what Detroit would ask for him. It’s a similar thing with other potential targets, teams will ask, and get, much more than some of you think.

If you are already going into a serious trade, then at the same time, not necessarily in one trade of course, you should target two players one of whom must be a passing PG. Now, can we put together two such packages and still have some players to play with the new ones? I'm honestly not sure. As I wrote, I'm afraid we're not there yet.

The problem is that our picks looked like a great trade bait at the beginning of the season. But the Knicks are on the verge of entering the playoffs and therefore our picks worth much less now. If we make a move and get good player, we will very likely enter the playoffs, but it also means that the picks no longer have any huge value as trade resources.

You’re probably right. He may cost way more. My intention was to figure out the best player we could get with Toppin and our Dallas picks. An upgrade that doesn’t drain us of everything. He was the guy I landed on that fit. I don’t see any others out there right now but I was intrigued at what s team like Detroit would want as they are in full rebuild mode. Like when we signed Marcus Morris knowing we would probably move him for an asset later. This feels like that but on a much larger scale. But maybe they feel like they can build around Grant. Who knows.

You never know. I think your logic is sound — consolidating some of our resources to upgrade SF and PG. There aren’t a ton of FAs that available that will be clear upgrades.

Yeah the free agent class isn't great. Guys who get thrown around like L Ball, No Powell, Danny Green etc are all good players, but how much of an upgrade are they over Bullock/Burks? Maybe a little, but not a lot. And on the other end of the spectrum we are going to be constantly thrown into speculation for Beal, LaVine etc with the assumption that it will cost a king's random. I feel like the best option is to grow internally and maintain cap space unless this type of in-between deal comes along. For the Knicks to take the next step, they will have to get a major free agent because a major trade just costs too much for a team a ways away from competing. Basically to me we can call Randle a star, Barrett and Quickley 2 potential future stars (or high level starters) and we need the next guy to come here for just money, no trade.

For the sake of this conversation, Grant to be was the obvious lesser costing choice. The other guy i landed on was Buddy Hield, but for all he would solve as far as shooting, we would lose plenty on the defensive end, so it's not as good of an option clearly.