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fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:I just wish we knew this before they drafted his replacement.....

It's a good point. I guess the logic is we weren't good enough to not draft BPA. Haliburton was an awesome option, and to be honest I wish we had him right now, but Toppin was the undisputed BPA on the board. Obviously getting Quickley eases the pain of not drafting Haliburton, but Haliburton/Quickley would have been an incredible draft.

You know what's going to be wild? Obi has the necessary timeline - a very slow one - to figure out his game over the next 2 years playing behind Randle. And then when he explodes in that 3rd year, the Knicks will have a most excellent problem to solve.

If they keep Randle, then Obi gone. Hopefully for more shooting.

why? We have 3 good draft picks this offseason and a boatload of cap space. I think the opposite... I am not looking to elevate Obi/IQ to starting anytime soon. I think they are an amazing 2nd unit with DRose and we should upgrade PG and SF and keep those 3 right where they are.

We're possibly looking at two middling first-rounders and a good second-rounder this year. Obi is redundant and the team is going to have to get better somehow. Obi, realistically, might become the most desirable tradeable piece that won't hamper the team going forward.

martin wrote:He's not wrong

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This is 100% spot on. But it makes sense because home grown players get the benefit of the doubt whereas free agents really don't. Free agents have to earn it here in a major way. That's just the mentality of the fanbase.

Spinovers are down, over dribbling etc. he's taking better shots too

there was about a 5-7 min stretch yesterday where i thought there were some glimpses of hero ball going on but it was corrected.

Nalod wrote:If Randle is a present from “The gods”,
Then is Steve Mills a god?
In BriggsLand Trump is a savior and Mills is a God!

Bring back Mills and fire Rose? I like it!

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:I just wish we knew this before they drafted his replacement.....

It's a good point. I guess the logic is we weren't good enough to not draft BPA. Haliburton was an awesome option, and to be honest I wish we had him right now, but Toppin was the undisputed BPA on the board. Obviously getting Quickley eases the pain of not drafting Haliburton, but Haliburton/Quickley would have been an incredible draft.

You know what's going to be wild? Obi has the necessary timeline - a very slow one - to figure out his game over the next 2 years playing behind Randle. And then when he explodes in that 3rd year, the Knicks will have a most excellent problem to solve.

If they keep Randle, then Obi gone. Hopefully for more shooting.

why? We have 3 good draft picks this offseason and a boatload of cap space. I think the opposite... I am not looking to elevate Obi/IQ to starting anytime soon. I think they are an amazing 2nd unit with DRose and we should upgrade PG and SF and keep those 3 right where they are.

We're possibly looking at two middling first-rounders and a good second-rounder this year. Obi is redundant and the team is going to have to get better somehow. Obi, realistically, might become the most desirable tradeable piece that won't hamper the team going forward.

Kawhi and Kris Middleton were midling first rounders. Plus that early 2nd rounder could get us lucky with a foreign player (remember Jokic didnt play for a year).

YES... its MUCH easier to get a star player with a blue chip top pick. I am not going there. Its also much easier to hit a home run in the draft when you get extra swings. Maybe the Knicks draft two long skinny kids with picks 8 and 16. One kid turns out to be Anthony Randolph part 2. The other kid turns out to be Kris Middleton or Tayshaun Prince? End up being another draft we got a true building block

I am Obi-biased but just because I think he will be really good and is very different than Randle. I also view Obi as high end talent which I am coveting. Now when Pho gets cheap and Booker is heading to MSG yeah... Obi, its been fun knowing you. But minus sure thing star talent who's young I am keeping him.

Also remember the FO is really high on him

Yeah, I'm not talking about trading Obi for a bag d!#ks. But Randle's ascension moves up the timeline(if he's extended) Knox, Frank and whoever is going to fetch crap. If I'm a gm with a good player on the market and those are guys you're trying to peddle, I'm feeling insulted enough to slam down my cell phone and pee on it while your still on the line. I'm not down on Obi. Just trying to be forward thinking. The Knicks could get lucky in the draft, but the could roll snake eyes.

fishmike wrote:coaching matters.

Its really hard to evaluate talent when you are tanking. Tanking has its place, and we did that. Coming into the season with Mitch, Julius, RJ, Knox, Frank, DSjr, Obi, IQ... we needed to coach these guys up and see what we have.

I still think Randle is best a complimentary guy, but he's also part of the reason I brought up that Detroit team. Randle may or may not be an all star. He's not at the level of those top 10 guys. He's not there. But he's REALLY REALLY good and if you have a team with 4-5 guy like Randle who are well coached I think you can do pretty deep in this league.

Mitch/IQ/RJ are well on their way to being very good and in that category. Rose is a great bench piece. This is part where you just let this thing cook. If you get a trade that helps you for low cost (like with Rose) you make it, or if something bigger comes loose like Booker maybe you pull that trigger but otherwise just let it sit and cook.

This is the least fun part of the process. You set up the greenhouse nicely. Now you need some time to let the plants grow. We have 3 good picks in this draft coming up and its a good draft. Thats the next place to execute.

Think the notion that the Knicks were going to trade Randle for scraps was only in the minds of the hater Knick fan base who failed to see the value of a 25 year old that was putting up close to a double double every year since he came into the league. As I have been reminding people for quite some time. Fact is, Randle has been a bull since he played with the Lakers. It was easy to see the many attributes he possessed if looked at with a subjective eye. And not with one that was jaded by unrealistic expectations. Never understood why so many favored a short sighted narratives focused on "spinovers" yet ignored difficult offensive accomplishments and physicality. Especially when, as you mentioned, coaching makes a difference. and the mistakes he was making was due to Fizdale putting him in a position he was not ready for. However, it was not that difficult to predict Randle was destined to be a next level talent based on his early and consistent scoring and rebounding numbers. I give the Knicks a lot of credit for bringing him over and then for not listening to the media or short sighted fan base this past off season. Think he is exactly the type of FA player we should continue to focus on. YOUNG talented players coming off their rookie or first contracts who have shown above average ability and more importantly have had solid production numbers. Think they like Randle will have the best probability of becoming valued and high level players.

I advocating for signing Randle (and Russell) that 18 offseason. I advocated for trading Randle after 19-20 when the guy we got didn’t match the Pelican we signed. But this year has been a revelation.

He is putting up numbers that would speak to star status. A playoff berth and some experience there might push him to the next level.

I’m more with OP than realists. Serious contender for most improved player.

GustavBahler wrote:Was an "early adopter" this season of the opinion that Randle came back a much improved player. So this iant coming from a poster who hasnt been a fan of what Randle has done this season. He's earned an All-Star nod.

So why do I believe we shouldnt consider Randle untouchable? Minutes and money. Randle right now is near the top of the league in minutes played. Combine that with a coach who has a track record of not minding that kind of thing. With an expensive long term contract, I see potential problems ahead.

Believe its very important to add an all-star in Free Agency this offseason, so Randle isnt run into the ground. If Randle playing heavy minutes this season, making the playoffs, leads to legit FA interest, OK then.

The alternative is putting too many chips on Randle. Would rather sell high than do that.