blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Literally what has IQ done to deserve to start?

He doesn't know how to get out of a hard trap. Picks up his dribble too often with no outlet pass, misses way too many passes at the rim for Robinson and Noel, hasn't yet proven he can finish at the rim.

He has had some nice minutes off bench. He shows flashes. Shooting OK from deep but some games doesn't know when to shoot and when not to.

Payton isn't long for his starting position but IQ hasn't grabbed it yet

I think the shooting is needed in the lineup.

Feel like EVERYONE has noticed that and yet Thibs hasn't pulled the trigger

Things were working just well enough to not change it up. Now that moves are being made this is the opportunity.

What moves? We traded away a guy who was not getting minutes. That's it.

The moves didn't shake up the rotation and I'm guessing Rose will be brought in when opportunity is right

Can't see Rose getting spot-duty ala Taj Gibson. Rose is here to play. Someone is losing minutes....

Rose could slide into Elf spot, but with a no trade clause, from what I heard, that trade idea might be difficult.

I agree, IQ should dominate his current position and learn from the vets on how to run a team. That's 1 strategy. The other strategy (depending on the rookie) let him take his lumps. Get some film on IQ running the point guard position vs coming off the bench jacking. At least going into next season, it's not a surprise to him. I rather see IQ learn how to be a PG now, vs learning how to be a 6 man.....If IQ is really the PG of the future. With Rose coming in and hopefully use Payton to get that 2nd round pick back, or an even better pick (based on how the FO role).

Dude that's the Tanking strategy under JH, Miller and Fizdale...see knox, see frank, see dsj, see Mitch..Not much progress

We are in the thick of a playoff race, and you want to experiment with a rookie running a mostly veteran squad

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1358781291651608579

knicks1248 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Literally what has IQ done to deserve to start?

He doesn't know how to get out of a hard trap. Picks up his dribble too often with no outlet pass, misses way too many passes at the rim for Robinson and Noel, hasn't yet proven he can finish at the rim.

He has had some nice minutes off bench. He shows flashes. Shooting OK from deep but some games doesn't know when to shoot and when not to.

Payton isn't long for his starting position but IQ hasn't grabbed it yet

I think the shooting is needed in the lineup.

Feel like EVERYONE has noticed that and yet Thibs hasn't pulled the trigger

Things were working just well enough to not change it up. Now that moves are being made this is the opportunity.

What moves? We traded away a guy who was not getting minutes. That's it.

The moves didn't shake up the rotation and I'm guessing Rose will be brought in when opportunity is right

Can't see Rose getting spot-duty ala Taj Gibson. Rose is here to play. Someone is losing minutes....

Rose could slide into Elf spot, but with a no trade clause, from what I heard, that trade idea might be difficult.

I agree, IQ should dominate his current position and learn from the vets on how to run a team. That's 1 strategy. The other strategy (depending on the rookie) let him take his lumps. Get some film on IQ running the point guard position vs coming off the bench jacking. At least going into next season, it's not a surprise to him. I rather see IQ learn how to be a PG now, vs learning how to be a 6 man.....If IQ is really the PG of the future. With Rose coming in and hopefully use Payton to get that 2nd round pick back, or an even better pick (based on how the FO role).

Dude that's the Tanking strategy under JH, Miller and Fizdale...see knox, see frank, see dsj, see Mitch..Not much progress

We are in the thick of a playoff race, and you want to experiment with a rookie running a mostly veteran squad

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Literally what has IQ done to deserve to start?

He doesn't know how to get out of a hard trap. Picks up his dribble too often with no outlet pass, misses way too many passes at the rim for Robinson and Noel, hasn't yet proven he can finish at the rim.

He has had some nice minutes off bench. He shows flashes. Shooting OK from deep but some games doesn't know when to shoot and when not to.

Payton isn't long for his starting position but IQ hasn't grabbed it yet

I think the shooting is needed in the lineup.

Feel like EVERYONE has noticed that and yet Thibs hasn't pulled the trigger

Things were working just well enough to not change it up. Now that moves are being made this is the opportunity.

What moves? We traded away a guy who was not getting minutes. That's it.

The moves didn't shake up the rotation and I'm guessing Rose will be brought in when opportunity is right

Can't see Rose getting spot-duty ala Taj Gibson. Rose is here to play. Someone is losing minutes....

totally agree. One thing we know is Thibs is not lazy is his approach to offense so he's going to be focused on using Rose to get better shots whether that is slashing or the drive and dish.

What do we know?

DSj wasnt playing

Elfrid is now being mentioned in rumors as some playoff teams having interest and I think if you look at his season he's a valuable backup PG who can really help you off the bench and spot start.

Frank survived again and Knicks said no to Knox. Of the guys not playing they moved the one with the least potential to ever contribute here.

As bad as Det has been Rose has played well

I suspect there are going to be a lot of moves in the next couple years, I dont really love Rose, but Thibs does and the cost was as low as it gets by NBA standards. I guess what I am saying is we have to let them do their thing. Guys like Rose/Taj are stop gaps pieces. They are here to be outplayed, but in the meantime they have the trust of their coach. It seems all the guys know what Thibs wants from them. The early results have been promising in such a way that this FO and Thibs have earned a wait and see from me.

The sooner Elf is traded, the easier this trade will be to digest, to an extent. Fish, we just talked about how we should be sellers at the trade deadline but with moves like this, I'm not too sure that's going to happen. I'm trying to remain optimistic, but the fact that Taj and Rose are here are clear indications that Thibs has more than just a "say" in the front office. We didn't give up much to get Rose in terms of who we and what we traded, but if Quick loses minutes, then we gave up much more than we should have. I just do not want to skip steps as we rebuild this team.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:Literally what has IQ done to deserve to start?

He doesn't know how to get out of a hard trap. Picks up his dribble too often with no outlet pass, misses way too many passes at the rim for Robinson and Noel, hasn't yet proven he can finish at the rim.

He has had some nice minutes off bench. He shows flashes. Shooting OK from deep but some games doesn't know when to shoot and when not to.

Payton isn't long for his starting position but IQ hasn't grabbed it yet

I think the shooting is needed in the lineup.

Feel like EVERYONE has noticed that and yet Thibs hasn't pulled the trigger

Things were working just well enough to not change it up. Now that moves are being made this is the opportunity.

What moves? We traded away a guy who was not getting minutes. That's it.

The moves didn't shake up the rotation and I'm guessing Rose will be brought in when opportunity is right

Can't see Rose getting spot-duty ala Taj Gibson. Rose is here to play. Someone is losing minutes....

Rose could slide into Elf spot, but with a no trade clause, from what I heard, that trade idea might be difficult.

I agree, IQ should dominate his current position and learn from the vets on how to run a team. That's 1 strategy. The other strategy (depending on the rookie) let him take his lumps. Get some film on IQ running the point guard position vs coming off the bench jacking. At least going into next season, it's not a surprise to him. I rather see IQ learn how to be a PG now, vs learning how to be a 6 man.....If IQ is really the PG of the future. With Rose coming in and hopefully use Payton to get that 2nd round pick back, or an even better pick (based on how the FO role).

Dude that's the Tanking strategy under JH, Miller and Fizdale...see knox, see frank, see dsj, see Mitch..Not much progress

We are in the thick of a playoff race, and you want to experiment with a rookie running a mostly veteran squad

. Dude stop accusing people of wanting “to tank”. Fans want to win. However the FO has made it clear they are sticking to their plan of building within the draft while also adding some veterans around the young core. That doesn’t mean we are “tanking”. We get it you don’t want to build through the draft you want to trade Picks/youth for veteran. Problem is we did that before with awful results. I don’t get why you see it as a “tanking strategy”.

WTH are you talking about.....The thread is about Quickly starting and letting him play through mistakes, and your talking about building through the draft, that's just 2 different subjects.

Why you think Detroit traded Rose, because they know they are not good and want to play younger guys more, wins are not a priority...That's tanking, that's what we have done for the last 4 seasons.

You know what kind of coach we have, to think he will start a rookie over his veterans, is dumb wishful thinking..

If the knicks even remotely thought IQ was a starter, Rose would not be here

unstopaball12 wrote:I still agree with IQ not starting. He is doing well in his role, whu change it? Thibs has stuck with the hot hand to end the game. If we start him and we go on a losing streak and demote him, it might demoralise him. He knows what his current role is and he knows if he performs he can get minutes.

Agree though with the addition of rose, Payton has got to go. Hoping we trade him for a pick and use that pick to trade for a solid 3 and d man.

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:For those asking why does Quickley need to start, how about asking what is Elfrid doing to deserve to start? On top of that, after Quickley had a great run, he had his minutes reduced to 14 the last to games while Elfrid, who I thought was a distributor, took more shot attempts than RJ.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1358781291651608579

Does it take into account IQ is mostly playing against bench players, does it take into to account who's on the floor with IQ.

Those stats are so misleading it's not even funny

Well that is not entirely true. Quick does a lot of his work in the 4th. Most teams play their starters in the 4th.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Knicks_Nuance/status/1358155909176975364

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:I still agree with IQ not starting. He is doing well in his role, whu change it? Thibs has stuck with the hot hand to end the game. If we start him and we go on a losing streak and demote him, it might demoralise him. He knows what his current role is and he knows if he performs he can get minutes.

Agree though with the addition of rose, Payton has got to go. Hoping we trade him for a pick and use that pick to trade for a solid 3 and d man.

I never got this logic of being OK with Quick not starting because he is playing well. How do you know if he will not do better in a starting role? Even if IQ's numbers go down because teams are doubling him maybe this will also make things easier for RJ and Randle. Instead of the paint being packed they get to go 1 on 1 because teams are doubling IQ.

The logic isn't so much that IQ is not starting because he is playing well. He is playing well. Is he playing well enough to start? Is he absolutely dominating the second line? What's better for the team? What PG is better for each unit? Has he figured out enough to warrant starting (besides the obvious of shooting better than Payton)? What's his usage on the second line? Cause it seems high and then would take away from RJ and Randle.

IQ has many many PG flaws that would get UBER exposed going against starters in the NBA. Miami just trapped him to death and other teams would catch on and he would make the starting lineup look foolish... and then what? You demote him again?

Thibs needs to be in a position to start IQ when IQ is ready to start for the whole year. As a PG, as a defender, as a distributor, as a shooter.

Most of Quickley's big moments have come in 4th quarters when he's in the game with the rest of the starters against the other team's best 5.

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:I still agree with IQ not starting. He is doing well in his role, whu change it? Thibs has stuck with the hot hand to end the game. If we start him and we go on a losing streak and demote him, it might demoralise him. He knows what his current role is and he knows if he performs he can get minutes.

Agree though with the addition of rose, Payton has got to go. Hoping we trade him for a pick and use that pick to trade for a solid 3 and d man.

I never got this logic of being OK with Quick not starting because he is playing well. How do you know if he will not do better in a starting role? Even if IQ's numbers go down because teams are doubling him maybe this will also make things easier for RJ and Randle. Instead of the paint being packed they get to go 1 on 1 because teams are doubling IQ.

The logic isn't so much that IQ is not starting because he is playing well. He is playing well. Is he playing well enough to start? Is he absolutely dominating the second line? What's better for the team? What PG is better for each unit? Has he figured out enough to warrant starting (besides the obvious of shooting better than Payton)? What's his usage on the second line? Cause it seems high and then would take away from RJ and Randle.

IQ has many many PG flaws that would get UBER exposed going against starters in the NBA. Miami just trapped him to death and other teams would catch on and he would make the starting lineup look foolish... and then what? You demote him again?

Thibs needs to be in a position to start IQ when IQ is ready to start for the whole year. As a PG, as a defender, as a distributor, as a shooter.

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:I still agree with IQ not starting. He is doing well in his role, whu change it? Thibs has stuck with the hot hand to end the game. If we start him and we go on a losing streak and demote him, it might demoralise him. He knows what his current role is and he knows if he performs he can get minutes.

Agree though with the addition of rose, Payton has got to go. Hoping we trade him for a pick and use that pick to trade for a solid 3 and d man.

I never got this logic of being OK with Quick not starting because he is playing well. How do you know if he will not do better in a starting role? Even if IQ's numbers go down because teams are doubling him maybe this will also make things easier for RJ and Randle. Instead of the paint being packed they get to go 1 on 1 because teams are doubling IQ.

The logic isn't so much that IQ is not starting because he is playing well. He is playing well. Is he playing well enough to start? Is he absolutely dominating the second line? What's better for the team? What PG is better for each unit? Has he figured out enough to warrant starting (besides the obvious of shooting better than Payton)? What's his usage on the second line? Cause it seems high and then would take away from RJ and Randle.

IQ has many many PG flaws that would get UBER exposed going against starters in the NBA. Miami just trapped him to death and other teams would catch on and he would make the starting lineup look foolish... and then what? You demote him again?

Thibs needs to be in a position to start IQ when IQ is ready to start for the whole year. As a PG, as a defender, as a distributor, as a shooter.

I see what you mean about his flaws might be exposed and I agree he does have some. The way I see it, I would rather us see what those flaws are now so we have enough time to work on them before the playoffs(I am going to speak it into existence). We also get to see how he handles adversity which is important. If it turns out to be a disaster we now know exactly what he needs to work on. However, if it turns out he thrives in his new role it would be amazing for our franchise to finally have the PG we been looking for.

You keep saying We, and by that you mean We Fans. Thibs is like, I see his flaws during practice and against second liners during games and in the 4th quarter and when I watch and then re-watch film and then again in the next day when I watch film with the players and I don't want to see them at the beginning of the game.

You want to see the entertainment value of it for you. Where's the development of a player come in?

I actually meant the Knicks when I say we. I don't think it's uncommon for fans of teams to say we or us when talking about them. It does not matter if fans see his weakness because we have no power to do anything but talk about it on forums or social media.

Like I said before IQ has his own flaws, but I believe he has clearly outplayed Payton for the starting job in less time with a shorter leash. Payton has more glaringly bad flaws for this team. In a league where you need shooters to be good we have a team devoid of them. Common sense says that if you have players who slash(RJ) or Post(Randle) you want to surround them with shooters to give them space to work. We gave them Payton who no one defends and just instead they throw zones at us. Payton is probably a better player for a team full of shooters. Sadly that is not the Knicks so he is doing us more harm than good.

I always say you can learn a lot about a team by what strategies their opponents use against them. When Payton is on the floor teams pack the paint, play zone and ignore him because any shot he takes is a win for the defense. When Quick plays he is now getting double teams or the teams best defender.