martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

Is that what i said, or did I imply only if they add Ball, because DSJ and Frank have next to no value whatsoever.

I don't value 1st rnd picks as much as you do because we have a history of getting it wrong

We probably shouldn't have fired Fizdale either as we have a history of getting coaches wrong

Right now our FO history with picks is EXCELLENT

Can someone please poke my eyes out now?

Im going to keep reminded you that I have been praising this coaching staff since August

Again twisting my words, I said a history, meaning prior to this FO...and the thing about your response is that you know damn well we sc rewed up a lot of 1st picks in the past, so for you to respond like that just reinforces your troll habits.

Do you think for 0ne minute that frank for Ball would be a fair trade?

Why do you think that the history of Mills and Phil Jackson (and others) making draft picks has any baring on what Leon and staff will do?

It's the same reasoning as why you don't pre-judge Thibs and staff on what Fiz and his duds did

I don't, I have more faith in this FO and coaching staff than any other since JVG, but i know for a fact that THIBS is going to press to get more high level vets, he's said that in a number of press conferences, and thats been is MO forever

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

Is that what i said, or did I imply only if they add Ball, because DSJ and Frank have next to no value whatsoever.

I don't value 1st rnd picks as much as you do because we have a history of getting it wrong

We probably shouldn't have fired Fizdale either as we have a history of getting coaches wrong

Right now our FO history with picks is EXCELLENT

Can someone please poke my eyes out now?

Im going to keep reminded you that I have been praising this coaching staff since August

Again twisting my words, I said a history, meaning prior to this FO...and the thing about your response is that you know damn well we sc rewed up a lot of 1st picks in the past, so for you to respond like that just reinforces your troll habits.

Do you think for 0ne minute that frank for Ball would be a fair trade?

Why do you think that the history of Mills and Phil Jackson (and others) making draft picks has any baring on what Leon and staff will do?

It's the same reasoning as why you don't pre-judge Thibs and staff on what Fiz and his duds did

I don't, I have more faith in this FO and coaching staff than any other since JVG, but i know for a fact that THIBS is going to press to get more high level vets, he's said that in a number of press conferences, and thats been is MO forever

His MO is that he doesn't play rookies or young guys, only does that 8 man rotation.....

And yet he is making you eat your words

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

1248 doesn’t value first round picks like most of us do and loves veterans so I’m not surprised by this thread 😂. I’m open to anything as long as it makes sense and this certainly makes zero sense.

what is funny is he likes total trash players. Reddick? At least propose to trade for picks for someone GOOD. This dude is soooo funny.

My favorite was when he said we should trade tons for Lonzo. Then like 2 weeks like watches Lonzo play and is like "this guy isnt very good"

Well according to 1248 we “always Get draft picks wrong” so we are better off trading them for an aging flawed expensive veteran 😂. I’m convinced if he was running the Knicks he would have traded 3 unprotected First round picks Plus Mitch and frank( two players he has wanted gone for 2 years now) for Westbrook 😂

HAHAHA...Thats sooo funny, you should take your clown act on the road.

If it was up to you, you would resign frank for 15 mill with a NTC and have him as our starting pg.

16#1 picks in the last 20 season and not one single rookie resign..

Millions in cap space that resulted in lottery seasons...

I love it when the lottery balls hit, then 100 threads pop up that the knicks have horrible luck, blame it on ESPN....great stuff!!

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

1248 doesn’t value first round picks like most of us do and loves veterans so I’m not surprised by this thread 😂. I’m open to anything as long as it makes sense and this certainly makes zero sense.

what is funny is he likes total trash players. Reddick? At least propose to trade for picks for someone GOOD. This dude is soooo funny.

My favorite was when he said we should trade tons for Lonzo. Then like 2 weeks like watches Lonzo play and is like "this guy isnt very good"

Well according to 1248 we “always Get draft picks wrong” so we are better off trading them for an aging flawed expensive veteran 😂. I’m convinced if he was running the Knicks he would have traded 3 unprotected First round picks Plus Mitch and frank( two players he has wanted gone for 2 years now) for Westbrook 😂

HAHAHA...Thats sooo funny, you should take your clown act on the road.

If it was up to you, you would resign frank for 15 mill with a NTC and have him as our starting pg.

16#1 picks in the last 20 season and not one single rookie resign..

Millions in cap space that resulted in lottery seasons...

I love it when the lottery balls hit, then 100 threads pop up that the knicks have horrible luck, blame it on ESPN....great stuff!!

I think that 16 (17?) first round picks comment is loaded. For starters, four of those 16 are not even yet eligible for re-signing, so 25% of your subject data is useless. Go back from Nene to KP and you have 12 picks - none of which re-signed with the Knicks, but 8 of 12 had successful careers. Which makes the draft pick good - the only question is whether the trade history is good.

Nene (traded) (Good pick, bad trade)
Sweetney (traded) (bad pick)
Lee (traded) (great pick, bad trade for Anthony Randolph)
Frye (traded) (good pick, good trade for Zach Randolph)
Collins (traded with Z Randolph to LAC for T Thomas. Bad trade - bad pick)
Balkman (traded. Bad pick)
Chandler (traded, great pick)
Gallo (traded, great pick)
Hill (traded, bad pick)
Shumpert (traded, good pick)
Hardaway (traded, ok pick)
Porzingis (traded, great pick)
Ntlikina
Knox
Barrett
Bolmaro (traded)
Toppin

So, I don't think its fair to Jimmer the Knicks draft record based on the arbitrary standard of whether they re-signed with the Knicks. Honestly, I think the more recent failings of Ntlikina and Knox may be more about the Knicks infrastructure than the players. I find it hard to apply that line of reasoning on a going forward basis where this organization basically cleaned house on the player development side and have a coaching staff that appears dedicated to player development.

I would argue further that the Knicks trade record is far worse than their draft record and by virtue of that alone, your argument is a poor conclusion. Even that counterpoint is flawed because an organization is not necessarily doomed to repeat the errors of its past.

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

1248 doesn’t value first round picks like most of us do and loves veterans so I’m not surprised by this thread 😂. I’m open to anything as long as it makes sense and this certainly makes zero sense.

what is funny is he likes total trash players. Reddick? At least propose to trade for picks for someone GOOD. This dude is soooo funny.

My favorite was when he said we should trade tons for Lonzo. Then like 2 weeks like watches Lonzo play and is like "this guy isnt very good"

Well according to 1248 we “always Get draft picks wrong” so we are better off trading them for an aging flawed expensive veteran 😂. I’m convinced if he was running the Knicks he would have traded 3 unprotected First round picks Plus Mitch and frank( two players he has wanted gone for 2 years now) for Westbrook 😂

HAHAHA...Thats sooo funny, you should take your clown act on the road.

If it was up to you, you would resign frank for 15 mill with a NTC and have him as our starting pg.

16#1 picks in the last 20 season and not one single rookie resign..

Millions in cap space that resulted in lottery seasons...

I love it when the lottery balls hit, then 100 threads pop up that the knicks have horrible luck, blame it on ESPN....great stuff!!

Unlike you I don’t mention Frank and/or Mitch all the time. In fact I’ve barely mentioned the kid in a while since he has been hurt. Not sure why you are getting so upset? You yourself admitted in this thread that you have no faith in draft picks. Despite the fact that many recent draft picks have become key components of this team. Does that mean every draft pick will Work out? Of course not but the more you have the better success rate you will have. For some reason you hate the fact that the Knicks are building through the draft while also keeping flexibility. Most fans would see that as smart especially since the team has played pretty well this year even in losses It also helps in a cap league when you have players on rookie contracts. Your proposal makes zero sense for us and not one person has agreed with your proposal which should tell you something

I'm not the least bit upset, I just find it quite hilarious that you keep saying I don't like frank or Mitch like they did something to me personally...

When You trade your car in for a better one does that mean you don't like the car you driving or it's because you want to upgrade.

I don't know how many times i have to tell you that those 2, along with knox, don't have a great work ethic or IQ. Don't expand their game, don't help the team where they are needed, and they are very mediocre players that were lottery picks...Mitch is a 7 ft 13 yr old that has a lot of maturing to do

Another silly comment is "I don't like to building through the draft", no i don't, i like building through trade/fa/draft.

Mean while your comfortable Tanking and hoping for lottery balls, drafting projects, and draft bust.

I didn't want westbrook, but I could imagine the knowledge CP3 would have been sharing with IQ, helping him develop instead of Peyton.

Bad presidents
Bad coaches
Bad trades
Bad draft picks
Terrible development

Hopefully that's changed, but JJ was a rumor floating and it's either you like or you don't, and if you do, what would give up for him.

knicks1248 wrote:We have made missteps in every area of this franchise

Bad presidents
Bad coaches
Bad trades
Bad draft picks
Terrible development

Hopefully that's changed, but JJ was a rumor floating and it's either you like or you don't, and if you do, what would give up for him.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:We have made missteps in every area of this franchise

Bad presidents
Bad coaches
Bad trades
Bad draft picks
Terrible development

Hopefully that's changed, but JJ was a rumor floating and it's either you like or you don't, and if you do, what would give up for him.

Yes and those days are over. We have good FO in place along with a good coach with a proven track record. We are drafting Pretty well and have made good recent moves. Yet you want to go backwards and make a bad trade? 😂

Panos wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

Is that what i said, or did I imply only if they add Ball, because DSJ and Frank have next to no value whatsoever.

I don't value 1st rnd picks as much as you do because we have a history of getting it wrong

History of getting it wrong with first round picks?
Ok, let's look at the other side of it. What's their history of trading for players over 30? How well has that turned out?
Rolando Blackman (35) - knees shot
Clarence Weatherspoon (31) - moved no needle
Vin Baker (33) - useless, games played 24
Ron Artest (34) - useless
Anfernee Hardaway (32) - useless, terrible contract
Jalen Rose (32) - useless, terrible contract
Malik Rose (30) - horrible
Chauncy Billups (34) - Waived, Applied Allan Houston Rule
Mike Bibby, the corpse of (33) - played 39 games, absolutely useless
Baron Davis (32) - played 29 games, injured the rest of the year
Markus Camby (38) - played 24 games, avg 10 mins, 2 PPG
Kurt Thomas (2013) (34 y/o) - played 39 games, avg 10 mins, 2 PPG
Kenyon Martin (35) - 2 years, avg'ed 25 games per year
Rasheed Wallace (38) - played 21 games, 14 min per game
Pablo Prigioni (35-38) - 4 ppg, 3 apg, terrible defense in 18 mins
Jose Calderon (33)
Samuel Dalembert (33) - 32 games, 4 PPG
Sasha Vujačić (32) - 4 ppg
Deandre Jordan (30) - played 19 games
Taj Gibson - (35) - 16 MPG, 6 PPG, 4 RPG, 0.5 BPG
Joaquin Noah - THE KING OF THESE LOSERS - played 53 games out of a FIVE year contract!

Best return:
Jason Kid (39) - leadership + 6 PPG, 3 APG
Jarret Jack (34) - played 64 games, 7.5 PPG, 5.6 APG

Not a pretty list! But sure, let's add broken down JJ Reddick to the collection!

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:You would trade a valuable first round pick for a disgruntled old vet not playing well (who I like a lot) and a potential bust??? Get out of here. Lol

Is that what i said, or did I imply only if they add Ball, because DSJ and Frank have next to no value whatsoever.

I don't value 1st rnd picks as much as you do because we have a history of getting it wrong

History of getting it wrong with first round picks?
Ok, let's look at the other side of it. What's their history of trading for players over 30? How well has that turned out?
Rolando Blackman (35) - knees shot
Clarence Weatherspoon (31) - moved no needle
Vin Baker (33) - useless, games played 24
Ron Artest (34) - useless
Anfernee Hardaway (32) - useless, terrible contract
Jalen Rose (32) - useless, terrible contract
Malik Rose (30) - horrible
Chauncy Billups (34) - Waived, Applied Allan Houston Rule
Mike Bibby, the corpse of (33) - played 39 games, absolutely useless
Baron Davis (32) - played 29 games, injured the rest of the year
Markus Camby (38) - played 24 games, avg 10 mins, 2 PPG
Kurt Thomas (2013) (34 y/o) - played 39 games, avg 10 mins, 2 PPG
Kenyon Martin (35) - 2 years, avg'ed 25 games per year
Rasheed Wallace (38) - played 21 games, 14 min per game
Pablo Prigioni (35-38) - 4 ppg, 3 apg, terrible defense in 18 mins
Jose Calderon (33)
Samuel Dalembert (33) - 32 games, 4 PPG
Sasha Vujacic (32) - 4 ppg
Deandre Jordan (30) - played 19 games
Taj Gibson - (35) - 16 MPG, 6 PPG, 4 RPG, 0.5 BPG
Joaquin Noah - THE KING OF THESE LOSERS - played 53 games out of a FIVE year contract!

Best return:
Jason Kid (39) - leadership + 6 PPG, 3 APG
Jarret Jack (34) - played 64 games, 7.5 PPG, 5.6 APG

Not a pretty list! But sure, let's add broken down JJ Reddick to the collection!

I will not stand for this Pablo slander! He wasn't terrible and provided good leadership on offense. He had fast hands and good defense awareness that made up for his slow lateral movement. Also, he was only signed for the minimum, so you can't say he underperformed his deal.

good work. Panos clearly trying to stat pad his argument

Ok ya got me. Still pretty awful batting average.