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We Need to Talk About Elfrid Payton
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Philc1
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12/24/2020  1:35 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:That 1 assist to 5 turnovers ratio isn’t helping his odor.

If Thibs keeps starting him really I have to wonder what’s going on

Yeah I’d rather play Jared Harper over Payton. If you can’t spread the floor as a pg you don’t belong in the nba.

The guy does nothing even league average.


As much as I hate DSJ I’d much rather see him out there
AUTOADVERT
knicks1248
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12/24/2020  2:42 PM
Philc1 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:That 1 assist to 5 turnovers ratio isn’t helping his odor.

If Thibs keeps starting him really I have to wonder what’s going on

Yeah I’d rather play Jared Harper over Payton. If you can’t spread the floor as a pg you don’t belong in the nba.

The guy does nothing even league average.


As much as I hate DSJ I’d much rather see him out there

Do you really think the better option is on the bench and the entire coaching staff doesn't know it?

You have to ask yourself why wasn't a PG the TOP priority of the off season? why didn't they overpay for that position knowing what you had is straight garbage.

ES
Nalod
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12/24/2020  4:06 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:That 1 assist to 5 turnovers ratio isn’t helping his odor.

If Thibs keeps starting him really I have to wonder what’s going on

Yeah I’d rather play Jared Harper over Payton. If you can’t spread the floor as a pg you don’t belong in the nba.

The guy does nothing even league average.


As much as I hate DSJ I’d much rather see him out there

Do you really think the better option is on the bench and the entire coaching staff doesn't know it?

You have to ask yourself why wasn't a PG the TOP priority of the off season? why didn't they overpay for that position knowing what you had is straight garbage.

YOu should be the last person to ask yourself any question.
ItalianStallion
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12/24/2020  5:01 PM
Payton hasn't looked very good, but imo he's a decent backup PG. He's not going to shoot well, but he does pass and rebound well for a guard. On this team the lack of shooting is a big problem though.
dwiley20
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12/24/2020  5:18 PM
Still the best pg on the team...he had a bad game
ItalianStallion
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12/24/2020  5:23 PM
dwiley20 wrote:Still the best pg on the team...he had a bad game

I agree. I'd say Quickley because he has been better so far, but it's in such limited minutes I think Payton should start until it's obvious Quickley is better. They have to give it a few games because teams will adjust to Quickley and then he'll have to adjust back etc.. You can't have a revolving door after every game depending on who played well and who played poorly that night.
martin
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12/24/2020  7:23 PM
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franco12
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12/24/2020  10:47 PM
Langston Galloway. We easily could have added him.

If DSjr and Frank are so bad that Coach won't go with them when IQ get's hurt and Payton has stunk things up, then release them to make room.

Emannual Mudiay still I guess available. Sure, he ain't great, but is he better than Payton? Probably!

I said in the off season if we didn't upgrade the PG position, we were committing gross negligence of GM duties.

I get that FVV passed on us. But how to you go into the off season and we just plan to fill the gap with a kid we drafted at the end of the first round?
Nalod
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12/24/2020  11:52 PM
franco12 wrote:Langston Galloway. We easily could have added him.

If DSjr and Frank are so bad that Coach won't go with them when IQ get's hurt and Payton has stunk things up, then release them to make room.

Emannual Mudiay still I guess available. Sure, he ain't great, but is he better than Payton? Probably!

I said in the off season if we didn't upgrade the PG position, we were committing gross negligence of GM duties.

I get that FVV passed on us. But how to you go into the off season and we just plan to fill the gap with a kid we drafted at the end of the first round?

Rivers.
Payton has a bad game. He is paid 4mm and as a respectable history. He s not the future and at the moment neither is Frank or Denis.
Let’s give it some time before we slam the team for passing on xx and taking Obi.
shinmen
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12/25/2020  3:16 AM
The problem with Payton is even a good invidual game he doesnt bring much. He has no elite ability that gives you an edge. I guess Smith jr has his slashing ability, frank has his defense, IQ his shooting at least on paper.
And its established we are not a winning team with him.
nykshaknbake
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12/25/2020  3:51 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:That 1 assist to 5 turnovers ratio isn’t helping his odor.

If Thibs keeps starting him really I have to wonder what’s going on

Yeah I’d rather play Jared Harper over Payton. If you can’t spread the floor as a pg you don’t belong in the nba.

The guy does nothing even league average.


As much as I hate DSJ I’d much rather see him out there

Do you really think the better option is on the bench and the entire coaching staff doesn't know it?

You have to ask yourself why wasn't a PG the TOP priority of the off season? why didn't they overpay for that position knowing what you had is straight garbage.

Poor argument. By that logic whatever the lineup is will always be optimal and there is no need to discuss anything.
Welpee
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12/25/2020  10:22 AM
Philc1 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:That 1 assist to 5 turnovers ratio isn’t helping his odor.

If Thibs keeps starting him really I have to wonder what’s going on

Yeah I’d rather play Jared Harper over Payton. If you can’t spread the floor as a pg you don’t belong in the nba.

The guy does nothing even league average.


As much as I hate DSJ I’d much rather see him out there

DSJ is NOT a point guard. He only plays PG because he's 6'2". Payton was horrible in game one, but he is capable of playing respectably. Honestly, we have no good options at the point other than hoping Quickley is the real deal. We would just be trading off one problem for a different problem between Frank, DSJ and Payton.
Vmart
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12/25/2020  11:54 AM
Just let Frank play
fitzfarm
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12/25/2020  12:15 PM
Vmart wrote:Just let Frank play

Agreed.... no way Payton can be any better then Frank, at least Frank is young
technomaster
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12/25/2020  12:41 PM
Come on, Elfrid is a pretty good player. He'd just be most ideally on the floor with a whole bunch of shooters. Probably most ideally on the floor with Randle/Quickley/Knox/Obi/(Bullock/Burks) for him to be most effective. That gives him shooters and a pick and roll partner.

Check out his game log from last year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2020/

I'd be ABSOLUTELY thrilled if Frank could come in and average close to 10ppg/44%fg/7apg/5rpg/1.7stl in 28mpg like Elfrid did last season.
BUT... Frank doesn't get that level of production even if you stretch Frank's minutes to 36mpg!

It's great that he improved his free throw shooting last season, but he rarely draws fouls, doesn't make shots, and doesn't put any pressure on the defense. Frank on the floor perhaps creates even worse spacing than Payton does.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Vmart
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12/25/2020  1:06 PM
technomaster wrote:Come on, Elfrid is a pretty good player. He'd just be most ideally on the floor with a whole bunch of shooters. Probably most ideally on the floor with Randle/Quickley/Knox/Obi/(Bullock/Burks) for him to be most effective. That gives him shooters and a pick and roll partner.

Check out his game log from last year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2020/

I'd be ABSOLUTELY thrilled if Frank could come in and average close to 10ppg/44%fg/7apg/5rpg/1.7stl in 28mpg like Elfrid did last season.
BUT... Frank doesn't get that level of production even if you stretch Frank's minutes to 36mpg!

It's great that he improved his free throw shooting last season, but he rarely draws fouls, doesn't make shots, and doesn't put any pressure on the defense. Frank on the floor perhaps creates even worse spacing than Payton does.

There has never been a player that has been jerked around like Frank. Dude has never been given the honest shot. Last year Miller was using him and trusting him and the results were showing. They team performance was better over all defense was better. And we were seein GN a Frank growing as a player. What did he get a management overhaul. And it’s back to the drawing board for him. To boot the new President is the guy he let go as his agent. You can’t make this shyt up. This guy is never going to get the shot he deserves to get.
Philc1
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12/25/2020  5:20 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:That 1 assist to 5 turnovers ratio isn’t helping his odor.

If Thibs keeps starting him really I have to wonder what’s going on

Yeah I’d rather play Jared Harper over Payton. If you can’t spread the floor as a pg you don’t belong in the nba.

The guy does nothing even league average.


As much as I hate DSJ I’d much rather see him out there

Do you really think the better option is on the bench and the entire coaching staff doesn't know it?

Yes absolutely
Philc1
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12/25/2020  5:22 PM
dwiley20 wrote:Still the best pg on the team...he had a bad game

He was bad last year too. But the knick-hating media ignored it for compelling storylines like which strip club in Houston James Hardin is hanging out in

Payton +/- -15
Ntilikina +/- 5


Yes Frank did not play well either he only had 5 minutes but compared to Elf who is total dog poop he was not bad
Philc1
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12/25/2020  5:24 PM
Vmart wrote:Just let Frank play

This. Even if Frank doesn’t shoot well he provides defense. We are a very good defensive team with him and Mitch on the floor
Welpee
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12/25/2020  6:29 PM
Philc1 wrote:
Vmart wrote:Just let Frank play

This. Even if Frank doesn’t shoot well he provides defense. We are a very good defensive team with him and Mitch on the floor

One of the difference between the two is Payton will at least attempt to get to the hoop. Frank still doesn't seem interested in getting to the rim. I think this is a situation similar to the most popular player on a football team is the backup quarterback...until he plays. If we just played Frank I give it two weeks before the "We Need to Talk about Frank Ntilikina" thread is created.
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We Need to Talk About Elfrid Payton
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