knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Tony parker should understand this there weren't great point guard in front of frank and he could beat those guys out of starting spot. Frank couldn't beat out mudiay,burke,jack,session,payton,dsj, or kadeem allen not superstar point guards.

Good points, and Parker was never shy about getting to the rim.

Very disingenuous list and logic around Frank not being able to beat those guys out.

Frank lacked the speed, ball handling and physical maturity to get to the rim on a consistent basis. As those areas improved so has his attacks at the rim. Granted still probably not at the level needed. We will see what Frank brings to the table in this do or die season. Parker had elite speed especially in the early 2000s. Him getting to the rim was pretty much his whole game. He never became a good outside shooter.

You're focusing on quality over quantity. When you're getting to the rim at a good clip, its important. When you are barely driving to the rim, at all. Quantity becomes more important. Those other PGs were getting to the rim, getting to the line. Frank would go weeks without a trip to the line.

He would have looked like how Kevin Knox did when driving these past 2 yrs. Running into traffic and throwing up hot garbage at times with low success rates. Both of them need to get what they do well to a level where it’s consistent. And then expand from there.

The "garbage" was hot enough to be named rookie of the month. So Knox was on the right track. The team was clearly headed for the lotto. No stars on the team. Knox was given the green light, and he took advantage of it.

Frank has been given the green light to drive more by all of his coaches, and respected NBA vets. I reject the notion that Frank was right to avoid looking like "hot garbage" out there. If you dont have an NBA ready offense, its unavoidable. If the goal is to be NBA ready.

You dont suddenly decide its time to be more aggressive, when you have the complete game. Its trial, and sometimes a lot of error. Frank wants to take his game to the next level, he has to stop worrying about getting his shot swatted.

Knox was given the green light and then the next coach once the previous one got fired doesn’t tolerate mindless drives to the basket. He then starts to end up getting benched and his time gets reduced while his efficiency plummets. Frank on the other hand dropped his first 20pt-10ast game before the season ended for Covid. Was putting up 9.5pts per game to being the month. Started increasing his FT attempts and was netting steady efficiency. Hopefully he was able to build on that going into this season. And hopefully Knox developed either the craft to finish in traffic or the better understanding on when to attack and when not to.

Unfair to characterize all of Knox's unsuccessful drives as "mindless". Knox's footwork wasnt there. Lots of good players go through sophomore slumps, especially with no reliable PG (cough,cough) to run the offense.

Knox has shown more game, warts and all, than Frank has, in less time. Played more games where he looked like a starter. Better runs as a shooter, 3pt shooter. Frank is where he is in large part because of an aversion to risk.

KNOX plays like he was developed in the AAU circuit, Frank plays like a young Foreign player who never played AAU style of Ball. Unfortunately, most of the NBA plays AAU..

Good point. Even for FIBA, Frank is gunshy. I think of that quote, forget who really said it. "Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."

The modern version I guess, would be for Frank to develop more of a "Mamba mentality". With his height and wingspan, he should be scaring the crap out of defenses.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Tony parker should understand this there weren't great point guard in front of frank and he could beat those guys out of starting spot. Frank couldn't beat out mudiay,burke,jack,session,payton,dsj, or kadeem allen not superstar point guards.

Good points, and Parker was never shy about getting to the rim.

Very disingenuous list and logic around Frank not being able to beat those guys out.

Frank lacked the speed, ball handling and physical maturity to get to the rim on a consistent basis. As those areas improved so has his attacks at the rim. Granted still probably not at the level needed. We will see what Frank brings to the table in this do or die season. Parker had elite speed especially in the early 2000s. Him getting to the rim was pretty much his whole game. He never became a good outside shooter.

You're focusing on quality over quantity. When you're getting to the rim at a good clip, its important. When you are barely driving to the rim, at all. Quantity becomes more important. Those other PGs were getting to the rim, getting to the line. Frank would go weeks without a trip to the line.

He would have looked like how Kevin Knox did when driving these past 2 yrs. Running into traffic and throwing up hot garbage at times with low success rates. Both of them need to get what they do well to a level where it’s consistent. And then expand from there.

The "garbage" was hot enough to be named rookie of the month. So Knox was on the right track. The team was clearly headed for the lotto. No stars on the team. Knox was given the green light, and he took advantage of it.

Frank has been given the green light to drive more by all of his coaches, and respected NBA vets. I reject the notion that Frank was right to avoid looking like "hot garbage" out there. If you dont have an NBA ready offense, its unavoidable. If the goal is to be NBA ready.

You dont suddenly decide its time to be more aggressive, when you have the complete game. Its trial, and sometimes a lot of error. Frank wants to take his game to the next level, he has to stop worrying about getting his shot swatted.

Knox was given the green light and then the next coach once the previous one got fired doesn’t tolerate mindless drives to the basket. He then starts to end up getting benched and his time gets reduced while his efficiency plummets. Frank on the other hand dropped his first 20pt-10ast game before the season ended for Covid. Was putting up 9.5pts per game to being the month. Started increasing his FT attempts and was netting steady efficiency. Hopefully he was able to build on that going into this season. And hopefully Knox developed either the craft to finish in traffic or the better understanding on when to attack and when not to.

Unfair to characterize all of Knox's unsuccessful drives as "mindless". Knox's footwork wasnt there. Lots of good players go through sophomore slumps, especially with no reliable PG (cough,cough) to run the offense.

Knox has shown more game, warts and all, than Frank has, in less time. Played more games where he looked like a starter. Better runs as a shooter, 3pt shooter. Frank is where he is in large part because of an aversion to risk.

Sophomore slump isn’t the type of drop off Knox had last season. He was rapidly declining in Iq and confidence. But I don’t even wanna be overly critical of him. I wanna chalk it up to Fiz being a terrible coach. Probably for allowing him to play bball like he had no IQ. When Knox shown in college that he looked his best moving around off the ball for nice catch and shoot opportunities. Which once the defense starts to overplay would open up his drives.

We have seen Frank be a major catalysts for big wins for his work on both sides of the ball and on opponents best offensive weapons. Like vs Dallas twice and vs Houston. Maybe they have happen but none come to mind for Knox ever being a major catalyst for a win.

That’s Frank’s potential and that’s what hopefully can be honed into something consistent. Or he can be an enigma.

As I said, Knox has reached a higher level offensively. We're still waiting on Frank to show that kind of offense. Frank can help the offense run more efficiently, but he also puts the onus of winning a game on his teammates, pretty much always. Knox wants to take the last shot.

You cant have a starting PG who doesnt want to take the last shot.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Tony parker should understand this there weren't great point guard in front of frank and he could beat those guys out of starting spot. Frank couldn't beat out mudiay,burke,jack,session,payton,dsj, or kadeem allen not superstar point guards.

Good points, and Parker was never shy about getting to the rim.

Very disingenuous list and logic around Frank not being able to beat those guys out.

Frank lacked the speed, ball handling and physical maturity to get to the rim on a consistent basis. As those areas improved so has his attacks at the rim. Granted still probably not at the level needed. We will see what Frank brings to the table in this do or die season. Parker had elite speed especially in the early 2000s. Him getting to the rim was pretty much his whole game. He never became a good outside shooter.

You're focusing on quality over quantity. When you're getting to the rim at a good clip, its important. When you are barely driving to the rim, at all. Quantity becomes more important. Those other PGs were getting to the rim, getting to the line. Frank would go weeks without a trip to the line.

He would have looked like how Kevin Knox did when driving these past 2 yrs. Running into traffic and throwing up hot garbage at times with low success rates. Both of them need to get what they do well to a level where it’s consistent. And then expand from there.

The "garbage" was hot enough to be named rookie of the month. So Knox was on the right track. The team was clearly headed for the lotto. No stars on the team. Knox was given the green light, and he took advantage of it.

Frank has been given the green light to drive more by all of his coaches, and respected NBA vets. I reject the notion that Frank was right to avoid looking like "hot garbage" out there. If you dont have an NBA ready offense, its unavoidable. If the goal is to be NBA ready.

You dont suddenly decide its time to be more aggressive, when you have the complete game. Its trial, and sometimes a lot of error. Frank wants to take his game to the next level, he has to stop worrying about getting his shot swatted.

Knox was given the green light and then the next coach once the previous one got fired doesn’t tolerate mindless drives to the basket. He then starts to end up getting benched and his time gets reduced while his efficiency plummets. Frank on the other hand dropped his first 20pt-10ast game before the season ended for Covid. Was putting up 9.5pts per game to being the month. Started increasing his FT attempts and was netting steady efficiency. Hopefully he was able to build on that going into this season. And hopefully Knox developed either the craft to finish in traffic or the better understanding on when to attack and when not to.

Unfair to characterize all of Knox's unsuccessful drives as "mindless". Knox's footwork wasnt there. Lots of good players go through sophomore slumps, especially with no reliable PG (cough,cough) to run the offense.

Knox has shown more game, warts and all, than Frank has, in less time. Played more games where he looked like a starter. Better runs as a shooter, 3pt shooter. Frank is where he is in large part because of an aversion to risk.

Sophomore slump isn’t the type of drop off Knox had last season. He was rapidly declining in Iq and confidence. But I don’t even wanna be overly critical of him. I wanna chalk it up to Fiz being a terrible coach. Probably for allowing him to play bball like he had no IQ. When Knox shown in college that he looked his best moving around off the ball for nice catch and shoot opportunities. Which once the defense starts to overplay would open up his drives.

We have seen Frank be a major catalysts for big wins for his work on both sides of the ball and on opponents best offensive weapons. Like vs Dallas twice and vs Houston. Maybe they have happen but none come to mind for Knox ever being a major catalyst for a win.

That’s Frank’s potential and that’s what hopefully can be honed into something consistent. Or he can be an enigma.

As I said, Knox has reached a higher level offensively. We're still waiting on Frank to show that kind of offense. Frank can help the offense run more efficiently, but he also puts the onus of winning a game on his teammates, pretty much always. Knox wants to take the last shot.

You cant have a starting PG who doesnt want to take the last shot.

Every player has their strengths, weaknesses and styles. Knox at 6’9 with a 7plus wingspan plays relatively soft all the same. He doesn’t crash the boards relative to his size, athleticism, wingspan. Where he could get easy buckets off his own hustle. He isn’t regularly doing the dirty work. Or taking on the tougher assignments. If Knox was as high level offensive player as you make it sound than he should be the one getting Frank and his teammates the easier shots using his offensive talents.

Frank also had no problem hitting the game winner in Kemba’s mug. Think it was a step back jumper too. Guess it can be brought out with unselfish teammates and coaching promoting team ball movement. Leading to upsets.

Nalod wrote:Tony speaks he truth.

He's exactly right. New York fans and the media have zero patience. Perry and Fizdale hated Frank with a passion which wasted 2 years. Frank has talent and will continue to develop offensively and he's already a very good defensive player.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Tony parker should understand this there weren't great point guard in front of frank and he could beat those guys out of starting spot. Frank couldn't beat out mudiay,burke,jack,session,payton,dsj, or kadeem allen not superstar point guards.

Good points, and Parker was never shy about getting to the rim.

Very disingenuous list and logic around Frank not being able to beat those guys out.

Frank lacked the speed, ball handling and physical maturity to get to the rim on a consistent basis. As those areas improved so has his attacks at the rim. Granted still probably not at the level needed. We will see what Frank brings to the table in this do or die season. Parker had elite speed especially in the early 2000s. Him getting to the rim was pretty much his whole game. He never became a good outside shooter.

It took Parker several years to develop into the player we all now remember. His physicallity especially took years to develop. I remember him early on getting destroyed in the playoffs by Stephon Marbury.

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Tony parker should understand this there weren't great point guard in front of frank and he could beat those guys out of starting spot. Frank couldn't beat out mudiay,burke,jack,session,payton,dsj, or kadeem allen not superstar point guards.

Good points, and Parker was never shy about getting to the rim.

Very disingenuous list and logic around Frank not being able to beat those guys out.

Frank lacked the speed, ball handling and physical maturity to get to the rim on a consistent basis. As those areas improved so has his attacks at the rim. Granted still probably not at the level needed. We will see what Frank brings to the table in this do or die season. Parker had elite speed especially in the early 2000s. Him getting to the rim was pretty much his whole game. He never became a good outside shooter.

You're focusing on quality over quantity. When you're getting to the rim at a good clip, its important. When you are barely driving to the rim, at all. Quantity becomes more important. Those other PGs were getting to the rim, getting to the line. Frank would go weeks without a trip to the line.

He would have looked like how Kevin Knox did when driving these past 2 yrs. Running into traffic and throwing up hot garbage at times with low success rates. Both of them need to get what they do well to a level where it’s consistent. And then expand from there.

The "garbage" was hot enough to be named rookie of the month. So Knox was on the right track. The team was clearly headed for the lotto. No stars on the team. Knox was given the green light, and he took advantage of it.

Frank has been given the green light to drive more by all of his coaches, and respected NBA vets. I reject the notion that Frank was right to avoid looking like "hot garbage" out there. If you dont have an NBA ready offense, its unavoidable. If the goal is to be NBA ready.

You dont suddenly decide its time to be more aggressive, when you have the complete game. Its trial, and sometimes a lot of error. Frank wants to take his game to the next level, he has to stop worrying about getting his shot swatted.

Knox was given the green light and then the next coach once the previous one got fired doesn’t tolerate mindless drives to the basket. He then starts to end up getting benched and his time gets reduced while his efficiency plummets. Frank on the other hand dropped his first 20pt-10ast game before the season ended for Covid. Was putting up 9.5pts per game to being the month. Started increasing his FT attempts and was netting steady efficiency. Hopefully he was able to build on that going into this season. And hopefully Knox developed either the craft to finish in traffic or the better understanding on when to attack and when not to.

Unfair to characterize all of Knox's unsuccessful drives as "mindless". Knox's footwork wasnt there. Lots of good players go through sophomore slumps, especially with no reliable PG (cough,cough) to run the offense.

Knox has shown more game, warts and all, than Frank has, in less time. Played more games where he looked like a starter. Better runs as a shooter, 3pt shooter. Frank is where he is in large part because of an aversion to risk.

KNOX plays like he was developed in the AAU circuit, Frank plays like a young Foreign player who never played AAU style of Ball. Unfortunately, most of the NBA plays AAU..

Good point. Even for FIBA, Frank is gunshy. I think of that quote, forget who really said it. "Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."

The modern version I guess, would be for Frank to develop more of a "Mamba mentality". With his height and wingspan, he should be scaring the crap out of defenses.

Kobe had that mentality since he was in high school, didn't party, didn't drink, didn't play video games

Remember Jordan said Kobe would blow up his phone everyday all day with questions.

The knicks don't have that kind of veteran presence around these youngsters, and when your losing 100's of games, you start to become immune to losing, like whatever, I'm going to go home or to the hotel and kick that 12 yr olds ass who beat me last night in fortnight.

I have yet to hear frank is the first in the gym and last to leave, but i have heard that about Knox and quickly. Hard work always shows up on game night

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

houston20 wrote:Tony parker should understand this there weren't great point guard in front of frank and he could beat those guys out of starting spot. Frank couldn't beat out mudiay,burke,jack,session,payton,dsj, or kadeem allen not superstar point guards.

Good points, and Parker was never shy about getting to the rim.

Very disingenuous list and logic around Frank not being able to beat those guys out.

Frank lacked the speed, ball handling and physical maturity to get to the rim on a consistent basis. As those areas improved so has his attacks at the rim. Granted still probably not at the level needed. We will see what Frank brings to the table in this do or die season. Parker had elite speed especially in the early 2000s. Him getting to the rim was pretty much his whole game. He never became a good outside shooter.

You're focusing on quality over quantity. When you're getting to the rim at a good clip, its important. When you are barely driving to the rim, at all. Quantity becomes more important. Those other PGs were getting to the rim, getting to the line. Frank would go weeks without a trip to the line.

He would have looked like how Kevin Knox did when driving these past 2 yrs. Running into traffic and throwing up hot garbage at times with low success rates. Both of them need to get what they do well to a level where it’s consistent. And then expand from there.

The "garbage" was hot enough to be named rookie of the month. So Knox was on the right track. The team was clearly headed for the lotto. No stars on the team. Knox was given the green light, and he took advantage of it.

Frank has been given the green light to drive more by all of his coaches, and respected NBA vets. I reject the notion that Frank was right to avoid looking like "hot garbage" out there. If you dont have an NBA ready offense, its unavoidable. If the goal is to be NBA ready.

You dont suddenly decide its time to be more aggressive, when you have the complete game. Its trial, and sometimes a lot of error. Frank wants to take his game to the next level, he has to stop worrying about getting his shot swatted.

Knox was given the green light and then the next coach once the previous one got fired doesn’t tolerate mindless drives to the basket. He then starts to end up getting benched and his time gets reduced while his efficiency plummets. Frank on the other hand dropped his first 20pt-10ast game before the season ended for Covid. Was putting up 9.5pts per game to being the month. Started increasing his FT attempts and was netting steady efficiency. Hopefully he was able to build on that going into this season. And hopefully Knox developed either the craft to finish in traffic or the better understanding on when to attack and when not to.

Unfair to characterize all of Knox's unsuccessful drives as "mindless". Knox's footwork wasnt there. Lots of good players go through sophomore slumps, especially with no reliable PG (cough,cough) to run the offense.

Knox has shown more game, warts and all, than Frank has, in less time. Played more games where he looked like a starter. Better runs as a shooter, 3pt shooter. Frank is where he is in large part because of an aversion to risk.

KNOX plays like he was developed in the AAU circuit, Frank plays like a young Foreign player who never played AAU style of Ball. Unfortunately, most of the NBA plays AAU..

Good point. Even for FIBA, Frank is gunshy. I think of that quote, forget who really said it. "Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."

The modern version I guess, would be for Frank to develop more of a "Mamba mentality". With his height and wingspan, he should be scaring the crap out of defenses.

Kobe had that mentality since he was in high school, didn't party, didn't drink, didn't play video games

Remember Jordan said Kobe would blow up his phone everyday all day with questions.

The knicks don't have that kind of veteran presence around these youngsters, and when your losing 100's of games, you start to become immune to losing, like whatever, I'm going to go home or to the hotel and kick that 12 yr olds ass who beat me last night in fortnight.

I have yet to hear frank is the first in the gym and last to leave, but i have heard that about Knox and quickly. Hard work always shows up on game night

Playing Fortnite or modeling clothes doesn't mean you don't work hard in the gym. There are some guys whose games don't carry over. Knox, DSJ and Frank clearly had confidence issues. You're right, we haven't really had that vet presence aside from Jack, who was to washed, Taj, and Mook. It should've been Randle, but Randle lacks on-court maturity as well. Who knows, maybe guys like Wayne Ellington also stepped up. But at the end of the day, these guys have to figure it out on their own.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/what-knicks-rookie-hopes-to-gain-from-all-star-experience/

A gym rat, Ntilikina does most of his eating at the Knicks’ training facility — before and after his workouts. So he hasn’t gone out much or cooked a lot in his new Westchester apartment.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-frank-ntilikina-starting-point-guard-20191029-d4p5haryjrg53gkjvjtdvl6zm4-story.html

“It didn’t matter (that he didn’t score), his minutes were fantastic,” Fizdale said. “He guarded. He set the tone defensively. He made some nice plays to set people up. He got us organized. The shots will fall for him. The thing I’m proud of is how he kept himself ready. Like I knew he was. Every day he wasn’t playing, he was in the gym getting a sweat going. ‘Just let me know coach, I’m ready when you need me.’ I was really proud of his effort.”

Your only become good when your consistent