martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm expecting Kenyon Martin with more range on offense. On defense...I'm just hoping for effort.

For me both Amare and Kenyon had some raw strength and burst that are elite when they were healthy. I don't think Obi has that strength but we shall see.

GustavBahler wrote:A good PG will help make Toppin/Robinson work. They will learn each other's tendencies, and hopefully make a good tandem. If it doesnt work out, at least the FO tried before making a move.

This is usually when we do a full reset and jetison the youth movement, with a new regime. For once that hasnt happened, yet anyway.

Barrett is a born leader. I see him being more vocal this year.

I would love to add Cade to this group based on him being a elite Point forward and maybe try to get Lonzo ball in FA.

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm expecting Kenyon Martin with more range on offense. On defense...I'm just hoping for effort.

I think his game offensively will be very advanced, not a lot he can’t do offensively, plus he has BBIQ and really good passing skill for a big.

I also think he is going to struggle defensively a lot.

wargames wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm expecting Kenyon Martin with more range on offense. On defense...I'm just hoping for effort.

I think his game offensively will be very advanced, not a lot he can’t do offensively, plus he has BBIQ and really good passing skill for a big.

I also think he is going to struggle defensively a lot.

Yeah, Obi is a solid passer and I'm guessing he will definitely see some action in the high post. That will help alleviate some of the spacing issues. I can see Thibs running some triangle with Obi similar to the ones he used with Noah in Chicago.

Toppin looks to be a pretty polished offensive player - his all around skills seem to exceed those of Amare at the same age - but at the same time, Amare demonstrated his abilities against NBA players and was basically the 2nd best PF (behind Duncan) for many years.

It's downright special how effective Amare was when he didn't really have a post-up game nor have a great jumper until his mid-late 20s. How the heck did this guy average 20ppg+ all those years? The Nash/Amare/D'Antoni triumvirate was really quite amazing - he was a genius at executing the pick and roll, and using his God-given length/athleticism motor to get more than his fair share of garbage points.

Anyhow... I'm pretty excited to see how Obi looks against NBA competition. We'd be truly blessed if he produced like Amare Jr...

Five other players with similar size/build/college athleticism to think about as less optimistic outcomes for Obi-1:
1) Marvin Williams: #2 overall pick... is he with Charlotte still? He's a good player, but at his best, maybe a 4th option on a championship team.
2) Tyrus Thomas: #4 overall pick. He showed lots of athleticism and promise (and domination) at LSU. He never settled in as a productive player in the NBA. He was gone from the Bulls right before Thibs arrived. Basically a bust.
3) Harrison Barnes: #7 overall pick. Showed a lot of potential early. Had a lot of success as a contributor to the Warriors; put up some big numbers in Dallas but wasn't see as a guy who could really carry an offense. A bit of a tweener all around. Produces like a starter, but is kind of meh.
4) Josh Smith: #17 overall pick. J Smoove was awesome. A little bit of a knucklehead at times but very productive stat stuffing fantasy player with lots of highlight blocks.
5) Aaron Gordon: #4 overall pick. Lots of rumors/talk about him here on Ultimateknicks. Super athletic, killer dunker. He's taken a while to put it all together. His assist averages over the past 2 seasons have been pretty impressive.

technomaster wrote:Kenyon Martin gets more props in this forum than his actual perfomance on the floor. He was an imposing force in college, then he shrank 2 inches when he got to the NBA. He was a bit of a tweener on offense, but versatile on D. Good energy player/physical force for someone so lean - he played with ferocity. There was nothing fluid or finesse about his offensive game - it came across as 110% effort and power.

I think you downplay Kenyon's skill a bit. He had an effective post game, decent short range J, ability to put the ball on the floor some and seasons where he avg. 3 assists per 36. Better passer than given credit for. That said, Id say my comparison between Obi and Kenyon has more to do with production. I'm expecting about 12 ppg and 7 rebounds in his rookie season.

technomaster wrote:Kenyon Martin gets more props in this forum than his actual perfomance on the floor. He was an imposing force in college, then he shrank 2 inches when he got to the NBA. He was a bit of a tweener on offense, but versatile on D. Good energy player/physical force for someone so lean - he played with ferocity. There was nothing fluid or finesse about his offensive game - it came across as 110% effort and power.

Toppin looks to be a pretty polished offensive player - his all around skills seem to exceed those of Amare at the same age - but at the same time, Amare demonstrated his abilities against NBA players and was basically the 2nd best PF (behind Duncan) for many years.

It's downright special how effective Amare was when he didn't really have a post-up game nor have a great jumper until his mid-late 20s. How the heck did this guy average 20ppg+ all those years? The Nash/Amare/D'Antoni triumvirate was really quite amazing - he was a genius at executing the pick and roll, and using his God-given length/athleticism motor to get more than his fair share of garbage points.

Anyhow... I'm pretty excited to see how Obi looks against NBA competition. We'd be truly blessed if he produced like Amare Jr...

Five other players with similar size/build/college athleticism to think about as less optimistic outcomes for Obi-1:
1) Marvin Williams: #2 overall pick... is he with Charlotte still? He's a good player, but at his best, maybe a 4th option on a championship team.
2) Tyrus Thomas: #4 overall pick. He showed lots of athleticism and promise (and domination) at LSU. He never settled in as a productive player in the NBA. He was gone from the Bulls right before Thibs arrived. Basically a bust.
3) Harrison Barnes: #7 overall pick. Showed a lot of potential early. Had a lot of success as a contributor to the Warriors; put up some big numbers in Dallas but wasn't see as a guy who could really carry an offense. A bit of a tweener all around. Produces like a starter, but is kind of meh.
4) Josh Smith: #17 overall pick. J Smoove was awesome. A little bit of a knucklehead at times but very productive stat stuffing fantasy player with lots of highlight blocks.
5) Aaron Gordon: #4 overall pick. Lots of rumors/talk about him here on Ultimateknicks. Super athletic, killer dunker. He's taken a while to put it all together. His assist averages over the past 2 seasons have been pretty impressive.

Amare, like most players who played for MDA during those times benefitted from his coaches system and playing with an elite pg. Also, Amare was a bit before his time because there weren't many if any PF's at the time that were as athletic and explosive as Amare. Years later, he developed a reliable face-up game and his game really took off. The first half of his season with us, he was in the MVP discussion until the injuries caught up to him.

1) Marvin Williams: Not nearly as athletic or explosive as Obi
2) Tyrus Thomas: Great athlete that protected the rim. Obi is 3xs the offensive player that Thomas was..
3) Harrison Barnes: See Marvin Williams
4) Josh Smith: Josh had all the tools to be an allstar but lacked the work ethic that Obi seems to be displaying.
5) Aaron Gordon: Has all the tools. Is in the top 1% athletically in the NBA. Not sure about his work ethic. Like the saying goes, the best ability is availability and he seems to get hurt a lot. Could be wrong though.

Rookie stats 14 pt, 3ast, 6 rebounds.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

technomaster wrote:Kenyon Martin gets more props in this forum than his actual perfomance on the floor. He was an imposing force in college, then he shrank 2 inches when he got to the NBA. He was a bit of a tweener on offense, but versatile on D. Good energy player/physical force for someone so lean - he played with ferocity. There was nothing fluid or finesse about his offensive game - it came across as 110% effort and power.

Toppin looks to be a pretty polished offensive player - his all around skills seem to exceed those of Amare at the same age - but at the same time, Amare demonstrated his abilities against NBA players and was basically the 2nd best PF (behind Duncan) for many years.

It's downright special how effective Amare was when he didn't really have a post-up game nor have a great jumper until his mid-late 20s. How the heck did this guy average 20ppg+ all those years? The Nash/Amare/D'Antoni triumvirate was really quite amazing - he was a genius at executing the pick and roll, and using his God-given length/athleticism motor to get more than his fair share of garbage points.

Anyhow... I'm pretty excited to see how Obi looks against NBA competition. We'd be truly blessed if he produced like Amare Jr...

Five other players with similar size/build/college athleticism to think about as less optimistic outcomes for Obi-1:
1) Marvin Williams: #2 overall pick... is he with Charlotte still? He's a good player, but at his best, maybe a 4th option on a championship team.
2) Tyrus Thomas: #4 overall pick. He showed lots of athleticism and promise (and domination) at LSU. He never settled in as a productive player in the NBA. He was gone from the Bulls right before Thibs arrived. Basically a bust.
3) Harrison Barnes: #7 overall pick. Showed a lot of potential early. Had a lot of success as a contributor to the Warriors; put up some big numbers in Dallas but wasn't see as a guy who could really carry an offense. A bit of a tweener all around. Produces like a starter, but is kind of meh.
4) Josh Smith: #17 overall pick. J Smoove was awesome. A little bit of a knucklehead at times but very productive stat stuffing fantasy player with lots of highlight blocks.
5) Aaron Gordon: #4 overall pick. Lots of rumors/talk about him here on Ultimateknicks. Super athletic, killer dunker. He's taken a while to put it all together. His assist averages over the past 2 seasons have been pretty impressive.

Amare, like most players who played for MDA during those times benefitted from his coaches system and playing with an elite pg. Also, Amare was a bit before his time because there weren't many if any PF's at the time that were as athletic and explosive as Amare. Years later, he developed a reliable face-up game and his game really took off. The first half of his season with us, he was in the MVP discussion until the injuries caught up to him.

1) Marvin Williams: Not nearly as athletic or explosive as Obi
2) Tyrus Thomas: Great athlete that protected the rim. Obi is 3xs the offensive player that Thomas was..
3) Harrison Barnes: See Marvin Williams
4) Josh Smith: Josh had all the tools to be an allstar but lacked the work ethic that Obi seems to be displaying.
5) Aaron Gordon: Has all the tools. Is in the top 1% athletically in the NBA. Not sure about his work ethic. Like the saying goes, the best ability is availability and he seems to get hurt a lot. Could be wrong though.

How about Chris Webber. Gifted offensive player, later became a better defender

Yeas, CWebb is a good 1! Obi is a better shooter tho, at the same point in their careers.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The easy comp for Obi is Collins from atl, who puts up big numbers and has dunk contest athleticism, but lacks the impact to match his numbers because of lack of defensive versatility. Good player but not a game changer. The hope is Obi is a much better version of that player because he has another level offensively and he learns to become a league average defensive player.

except Collins wasnt a huge impact in college. His Wake team wasnt very good and Collins put up big numbers. They were 19-14. Obi's Ohio team was 29-2 with Obi winning a few best player in college type awards.

Very true.