When the team starts playing good basketball the media will have something different to write about. This is such a non issue

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

TheGame wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Listened to the latest KFS podcast. They made the point that OKC also had enough space through their TPE to take on Batum and they didn't do it. I think this has more to do with Charlotte's unwillingness to add a good asset than an unwillingness from the Knicks and OKC to come to the table. Also, don't know why the Hornets would be so adverse to taking back salary (Randle) for a year when the option is taking $9M of dead weight for three years.

Agreed. Clearly, the Hornets were not willing to offer the picks that would have made it worth it to the Knicks to take on that salary. If you take on $27 million, then that takes you out of using your cap space for other trades. I would have demanded that the Hornets give up a top-3 protected first round pick and maybe more, and I am guessing the Hornets realized they are likely going to suck and did not want to give up a first rounder, especially considering they saw how we turned their high second round pick into Mitchell two years ago.

I don't get why they stretched him and have him eating up cap for 3 yrs rather than just eat his contract for the season and be done with it. Would they not be able to sign Hayward otherwise?

No they wouldn't have, But again, you have to look at the same situation with Noah, Mills said teams wanted draft picks to take on his contract.

What made it so bad stretching NOAH was that we were tanking and he was in the final yr of his contract, that sht made no damn sense

You have done some amazing misses on so many things over the years but this warrants a closer look.
Its like both sides of your brain are in conflict. One side is saying “It makes no damn sense”. Thats when the other part should say “Hey, before I call someone stupid (mills) maybe I should fact check because I might look bad). You did not.

You look bad.
In your quest to once again prove to the world with hindsight and limited information that your smarter than Mills your other side of the brain opened the door and let the ignorant out the door. Its like half of you wants the other half to stop. You should figure out away to listen to this.
You are obsessed with making Mills look bad. His record speaks for itself. Nobody argues this.
Nalod is obsessed with making you look bad. Your record speaks for itself. Nobody argues this either.
I need to do better.

I actually agree with 1248 on the stretching Noah thing. They stretched him at an odd time (October 2018) after free agency but before the season. So his 18mm vested for 18-19 and then the 18m for 19-20 gets spread for 19-20, 20-21 and 21-22. Raised my eyebrows cause it did nothing for the Knicks to do that. The extra roster spot didn't do anything for us. Worst case, Noah would have been unhappy that year and this year. Now, most of us are unhappy being reminded of this until 21-22.

Mills was terrible and I am happy to see him called out on his terrible job repeatedly because it will hopefully serve as a reminder to keep him out of the front office.

First let me clarify that Mills was terrible.

But we have 18mil in cap space even with Noah eating up 6mil. Noah's cap hit hasn't really had an effect on Knicks landing any free agents for last season, this season or next season. Knicks stretched him hoping to put themselves in position to do so. Now if they did land some big fish then maybe it would have effected our ability to add some more pieces to push the envelope some more, but it didn't happen. So in the end it becomes relative. Keeping Noah or stretching him didn't change anything.

Then again maybe stretching him gave us the extra space for Morris, who turned into a draft pick, who turned into Quickley and the right to swap with LAC in 2021(or another 2nd in the future). Which ended up being quality use of available cap space.

Nalod wrote:Have to go back in time and place yourself at that moment.
Fiz was still all the rage and there was optimism that we’d attract Free agent.
We did this OCTOBER OF 2018. KP WAS TRADED FEBRUARY 2019.
HOW DOES THE KNICKS WAIVE $36,000,000 IN ONE GULP???
How do you trade Noah? Kanter had like no trade value at prorated $14mm, but think of the price you have to pay to move that contract! Noah was cooked, done, fried, and baked. Literally.

So how can one reconcile that it was a mistake to spread it 6mm per year? does that make or break us? Again, you have to go back to that moment to make sense of it. Now, I’m NOT saying it made sense for PHil to have signed him but thats another subject all together. Its October of 2018 you have KP returning perhaps mid season, a new coach,, and some levels of optimism.

We have $18mm in space now. What would the extra Noah money do for us right now? Take on Batam would do what for us? Two second round picks come with it? Now we over the cap. Trading Randle does not solve anything here. I read seemingly trading Randle can cure knicks, covid and world hunger.

I know we all frustrated that we can’t solve our woes over night but Charlotte went bigger on Haywood and perhaps put a ceiling on the future. Ball better be all they hope he can be.

It’s a timing issue. It’s like the guy that folds his cards in poker before his call. Assume you leave Noah on the roster. Yeah, maybe he is unhappy. But, there was no space granted in 18. Then in 19, they don’t have any free agents so they overpay a select few. You could have swallowed the balance of Noah’s contract that year, not spread him and have had 6mm this year and next. So, maybe you have an unhappy Noah instead of Taj Gibson. Life’s unfair. He has 18mm to console himself with. The only benefit of an October waiver was a single roster spot at the cost of 6m in three future years.

They could have easily waited until July to make that decision. Maybe someone comes knocking. Maybe they realize they aren’t getting Durant. The Hornets waited to have Hayward before they spread Batum. That is the correct timing at least - no need to do it until you knew you need it.

It’s just bad strategy. Maybe they are signaling to the universe that they will be players in the 2019 free agent class. There were Shea per ways to do that.

Nalod wrote:Have to go back in time and place yourself at that moment.
Fiz was still all the rage and there was optimism that we’d attract Free agent.
We did this OCTOBER OF 2018. KP WAS TRADED FEBRUARY 2019.
HOW DOES THE KNICKS WAIVE $36,000,000 IN ONE GULP???
How do you trade Noah? Kanter had like no trade value at prorated $14mm, but think of the price you have to pay to move that contract! Noah was cooked, done, fried, and baked. Literally.

So how can one reconcile that it was a mistake to spread it 6mm per year? does that make or break us? Again, you have to go back to that moment to make sense of it. Now, I’m NOT saying it made sense for PHil to have signed him but thats another subject all together. Its October of 2018 you have KP returning perhaps mid season, a new coach,, and some levels of optimism.

We have $18mm in space now. What would the extra Noah money do for us right now? Take on Batam would do what for us? Two second round picks come with it? Now we over the cap. Trading Randle does not solve anything here. I read seemingly trading Randle can cure knicks, covid and world hunger.

I know we all frustrated that we can’t solve our woes over night but Charlotte went bigger on Haywood and perhaps put a ceiling on the future. Ball better be all they hope he can be.

If Perry actually believed Fizdale could have gotten us Lebron because he was an assistant in Miami oh my God.

Horrible coach and Lebron never considered the Knicks for a nanosecond because he was here

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Have to go back in time and place yourself at that moment.
Fiz was still all the rage and there was optimism that we’d attract Free agent.
We did this OCTOBER OF 2018. KP WAS TRADED FEBRUARY 2019.
HOW DOES THE KNICKS WAIVE $36,000,000 IN ONE GULP???
How do you trade Noah? Kanter had like no trade value at prorated $14mm, but think of the price you have to pay to move that contract! Noah was cooked, done, fried, and baked. Literally.

So how can one reconcile that it was a mistake to spread it 6mm per year? does that make or break us? Again, you have to go back to that moment to make sense of it. Now, I’m NOT saying it made sense for PHil to have signed him but thats another subject all together. Its October of 2018 you have KP returning perhaps mid season, a new coach,, and some levels of optimism.

We have $18mm in space now. What would the extra Noah money do for us right now? Take on Batam would do what for us? Two second round picks come with it? Now we over the cap. Trading Randle does not solve anything here. I read seemingly trading Randle can cure knicks, covid and world hunger.

I know we all frustrated that we can’t solve our woes over night but Charlotte went bigger on Haywood and perhaps put a ceiling on the future. Ball better be all they hope he can be.

If Perry actually believed Fizdale could have gotten us Lebron because he was an assistant in Miami oh my God.

Horrible coach and Lebron never considered the Knicks for a nanosecond because he was here

Not sure what Mills thought Fiz could bring and how much Perry was influential on the decision. Remember Perry was just bought on. Not on absolving him in the hiring. Just saying. For all we know Perry wanted Bud?
But again Fiz was not the root cause of Memphis and perhaps in retrospect he did a decent job. Owner Pera has a knack for doing weird ****. Joerger was pretty good and got the boot.
But Fiz was seen as a culture changing guy. THere is always rumblings that Lebron has flirted with us. “The decision” was in Greenwich and while Dolan/Walsh put on an awful show Lebron has said he loves playing here and is quoted after he went to lakers to some degree. But really the roster and assets never justified it. Lakers were awful but they had a young core that was tradable and netted AD for him. So really until we did similar that would not have happened and its still an objective unfulfilled.
Yes, Fiz was awful and yes, Lebron likely never considered knicks given the asset base.
Also Noah was awful.
If you waive a player you have to pay them. The salary stays on the books. The stretch was not the issue, it was the signing. It was what it was.

Fiz was just awful here. I always got a negative vibe from him. He always had this angry disappointed look on his face. That can’t be good when trying to develop young players and clearly it wasn’t as he has the worst record of any Knicks head coach ever which is saying something

Lebron never had any interest in coming here. I think there was some discussion in 2014 after he left the Heat because he did want to play with his buddy Carmelo but it fell apart and that caused the blood feud between him and Phil