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OT: What's Wrong With Buddy Hield? I Like Him For NYK
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BigDaddyG
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11/30/2020  10:39 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.


Bogie wanted to leave. He was already headed to Milwaukee as far as they were concerned. Of course, they had to deal with the Milwaukee F@#k-ups and eventually had to pivot.

Well, why wouldn't they have traded him at the deadline if that were common knowledge?

Who knows when he made it known. Deals like the one involving the Bucks, even that failed miserably, take some time to develop. They don't just formulate at the beginning of the FA period. Maybe he let them know a month or weeks out. Who knows?


Bogdanovic was a restricted free agent, so none of this came down to what he wants. If the Kings wanted him, they could've kept him if for no other reason than as an asset play at a later date. It's not like they would've gotten stuck with that contract since there were a number of teams interested in signing him before the Hawks offer sheet. I just don't understand the Kings and their decision-making.

Yeah, but who wants two disgruntled shooting guards on the same team. It's not news that they have an issue at the position. They probably tried to push Buddy, but no one bit. Buddy's contract is bad. I don't think anyone here, me included, realized how bad it is, especially in this market. We just saw Bogie, who the Kings and many others thought was better, sign for less. Bogie is movable and they had a deal in place. Unfortunately, the NBA got involved after the Milwaukee debacle. Now, who knows what was said or implied to the Kings after the fact.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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jskinny35
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11/30/2020  1:39 PM
I like Buddy Hield but he reminds me a bit of Vernon Maxwell without the defense... great shooter but something's a little off with him
martin
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12/4/2020  2:10 PM
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

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Jmpasq
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12/4/2020  7:31 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?


Maybe it's a real rebuild? He would be taking minutes away from the kids. That's a move you make a couple of years down the line when we consistently make the playoffs at least.

Which kids would he be taking time away from? The only 2-guard we have is RJ Barrett and he's better suited to be a forward, IMO. And part of the reason the development of our youth has stagnated is because of how bad our floor-spacing is. Players like Barrett or Knox can't develop their ability to get to the basket because of how easy it is for teams to pack driving lanes/paint. Floor spacers like Hield would change all of that.


I like Barrett at Guard. he gives up size at SF. He will be able to bully most of the guards in the league. I like the defensive potiental there.
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Jmpasq
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12/4/2020  7:35 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:Perhaps you might want to revisit the assumption that he could have been had for nothing in a salary dump. Based on this, for example:

https://clutchpoints.com/kings-news-buddy-hield-trade-value-has-finally-been-revealed/


Yep, I assume their plans for Hield were contingent on what happened with Bogie. With Bogie gone, they're are in no real hurry to clear salary. As for his fit with the Knicks, we need solid playmaking more than anything. Hield wouldn't look nearly as good here.

He fits well on the Mavericks, sixers, teams with Point forwards

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Allanfan20
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12/4/2020  10:04 PM
He never moved the needle for the Kings. He won’t do it for the Knicks. We have enough undersized guards anyway. We need to focus on improving within’ and see where that takes us. We don’t need Hield.
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BigDaddyG
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12/4/2020  10:16 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:He never moved the needle for the Kings. He won’t do it for the Knicks. We have enough undersized guards anyway. We need to focus on improving within’ and see where that takes us. We don’t need Hield.

Agreed. He's a nice player, but he doesn't fit the timeline and his contract kinda sucks. Maybe we develop and the we bring him in when his deal ends in one to two years.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
EwingsGlass
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12/5/2020  7:21 PM
I don’t really agree with you on Hield. If you told me we had a trade for Beal available, I’d take that over Hield. But there aren’t a lot of guys that can shoot 39-40% from 3 with that kind of volume. If you break it down further, he shoots 48-50% from the Corner.

Now, forget all the backup combo guards we have that can’t spread the floor.

All I want to discuss is Barrett and Toppin.

If accept for a moment that Thibs will ask Barrett to handle the ball more (akin to his handling of Butler). The. You take Hield (his 24mm is not really a bad contract for his skill set). And have him rotating to the corner (bear in mind he is in a poor place to get back on D)

But, you then have a guy like Quickley who is phenomenal from around the key. He will be back on defense (and with a 6’10 wingspan, he isn’t “undersized”.

Then you have this spacious floor for Barrett to initiate the offense with Toppin being Uber athletic and able to roll to basket or out the the 3pt line as a 40% 3pt shooter.

You have Robinson in the paint with his quick jumping skill, able to finish if anyone rotates to help defense.

My point: Hield is a corner 3 wizard and would complement Barrett and Toppin well.

I’d be good with Hield for Randle/Smith and the 2022 1st (top 10 protected)

He’s make both Barrett and Toppin better.

You know I gonna spin wit it
ESOMKnicks
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12/6/2020  7:26 AM
It sounds good in theory, but the King's have all the Knicks have and more. Bagley close to the basket, and Dearon Fox who is a more skilled ball handler and passer than RJ. But the Kings don't win. That is the conundrum: what can you expect from a top dollar player whose team don't win?
Unless he is a final piece of your puzzle, but we do not yet have the principal pieces set.
smackeddog
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12/7/2020  4:16 AM
Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.
MS
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12/7/2020  10:29 AM
The Kings might have the worst front office in basketball. They passed on Luka for Bagely which was just insane. They had an offer to do a sign and trade with ATL where they would get a first round pick and they turned it down, which just seems insane.

I really like Hield, he's a great third option on a good team. I wouldn't be in a hurry to make a trade for him though. Let the season play out, there are going to be trades to be made during the summer. I would revisit then. We need playing time for as many as the guards as possible to try to get some additional compensation for a bullock, rivers and burks. Only 13MM btw the three guys they will be in demand. Late firsts and second round picks a few years down the road are important for this team.
TPercy
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12/7/2020  1:53 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.


Bogie wanted to leave. He was already headed to Milwaukee as far as they were concerned. Of course, they had to deal with the Milwaukee F@#k-ups and eventually had to pivot.

Well, why wouldn't they have traded him at the deadline if that were common knowledge?

Who knows when he made it known. Deals like the one involving the Bucks, even that failed miserably, take some time to develop. They don't just formulate at the beginning of the FA period. Maybe he let them know a month or weeks out. Who knows?


Bogdanovic was a restricted free agent, so none of this came down to what he wants. If the Kings wanted him, they could've kept him if for no other reason than as an asset play at a later date. It's not like they would've gotten stuck with that contract since there were a number of teams interested in signing him before the Hawks offer sheet. I just don't understand the Kings and their decision-making.

Yeah, but who wants two disgruntled shooting guards on the same team. It's not news that they have an issue at the position. They probably tried to push Buddy, but no one bit. Buddy's contract is bad. I don't think anyone here, me included, realized how bad it is, especially in this market. We just saw Bogie, who the Kings and many others thought was better, sign for less. Bogie is movable and they had a deal in place. Unfortunately, the NBA got involved after the Milwaukee debacle. Now, who knows what was said or implied to the Kings after the fact.

Just saw that is 24 mil this year...yikes. It declines to 19M but still thats quite hefty.

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BigDaddyG
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12/7/2020  2:28 PM
smackeddog wrote:Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.


Ha, I was gonna call Buddy the $1.10 to the $1.00 version of THJ. But I disagree about what the main problem is. The main office problem is I want Cade , Jalen-Suggs-Johnson and I don't need little gunner going off for a win or two and screwing up our draft odds. Plus, that contract isn't easily moveable.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
ramtour420
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12/7/2020  4:15 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.


Ha, I was gonna call Buddy the $1.10 to the $1.00 version of THJ. But I disagree about what the main problem is. The main office problem is I want Cade , Jalen-Suggs-Johnson and I don't need little gunner going off for a win or two and screwing up our draft odds. Plus, that contract isn't easily moveable.

Oh how we have seen this movie before. Suck all season then win like 7 of last 10 games because teams are resting for the playoffs

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BigDaddyG
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12/7/2020  4:58 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.


Ha, I was gonna call Buddy the $1.10 to the $1.00 version of THJ. But I disagree about what the main problem is. The main office problem is I want Cade , Jalen-Suggs-Johnson and I don't need little gunner going off for a win or two and screwing up our draft odds. Plus, that contract isn't easily moveable.

Oh how we have seen this movie before. Suck all season then win like 7 of last 10 games because teams are resting for the playoffs

Yeah, and you know Thibs is gonna keep cracking that whip. We don't have a bad coach to ensure we tank properly. We need front office intervention. That means turning a blind eye to players like Girls fora year or two. Can't forget about that double draft 😍

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Philc1
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12/8/2020  10:36 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.


Ha, I was gonna call Buddy the $1.10 to the $1.00 version of THJ. But I disagree about what the main problem is. The main office problem is I want Cade , Jalen-Suggs-Johnson and I don't need little gunner going off for a win or two and screwing up our draft odds. Plus, that contract isn't easily moveable.

Oh how we have seen this movie before. Suck all season then win like 7 of last 10 games because teams are resting for the playoffs

Tank for the 8th pick in the draft.


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Philc1
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12/8/2020  10:38 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.


Ha, I was gonna call Buddy the $1.10 to the $1.00 version of THJ. But I disagree about what the main problem is. The main office problem is I want Cade , Jalen-Suggs-Johnson and I don't need little gunner going off for a win or two and screwing up our draft odds. Plus, that contract isn't easily moveable.

Oh how we have seen this movie before. Suck all season then win like 7 of last 10 games because teams are resting for the playoffs

Yeah, and you know Thibs is gonna keep cracking that whip. We don't have a bad coach to ensure we tank properly. We need front office intervention. That means turning a blind eye to players like Girls fora year or two. Can't forget about that double draft 😍

This team is not that bad. They aren’t making the playoffs but people are acting like this is going to be the Adam Gase Jets of the NBA. We have a significantly better roster than when we finished 17-27 last season
TPercy
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12/8/2020  7:59 PM
Philc1 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Knicks Fan TV said that the Frank and Randle for Hield rumors last week were legit and the whole team thought it was going down (seems to have broken down for now).

I see Buddy as basically the Randle of the SG spot, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- instead of spinning turnovers, he gives you shooting, which helps with pacing and clears the 4 spot for Toppin. Salary wise seems the cost of a 3pt sniper at large volume is roughly what Hield is getting paid. Plus his salary is declining.

Main problem is he lets you know if he's not happy, so if we drafted a great SG in the draft, that could be a problem.


Ha, I was gonna call Buddy the $1.10 to the $1.00 version of THJ. But I disagree about what the main problem is. The main office problem is I want Cade , Jalen-Suggs-Johnson and I don't need little gunner going off for a win or two and screwing up our draft odds. Plus, that contract isn't easily moveable.

Oh how we have seen this movie before. Suck all season then win like 7 of last 10 games because teams are resting for the playoffs

Yeah, and you know Thibs is gonna keep cracking that whip. We don't have a bad coach to ensure we tank properly. We need front office intervention. That means turning a blind eye to players like Girls fora year or two. Can't forget about that double draft 😍

This team is not that bad. They aren’t making the playoffs but people are acting like this is going to be the Adam Gase Jets of the NBA. We have a significantly better roster than when we finished 17-27 last season


Not too sure on that. Even if it is better, I'm struggling to name a worst roster in the NBA? This team can easily outperform expectations if our young guys all take big leaps this season but until that happens even if we are playing at full strength we'll likely be the bottom 3 teams in the league, which I don't really care about as long as I see a coherent NBA offense, our young players make noticeable progress, and our team defense improves.
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