knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:DSJ plays no defense, is a horrific shooter, turns the ball over a ton and is not only a locker room cancer but even acts like moping headcase on the court during games. DSJ is the answer if you like losing

the guy avg lees than 2 TO's, we were a very bad defensive team in the 32+ games DSJ didn't even play in.

And If frank and peyton are better defenders, please explain how for 8 straight games, the opposing PG lit both of them up for 20+ points, and in half those games some guys some had career nights...

Donavan Mitchell and Murry lit each other up in he playoffs, would you avoid signing anyone of them because they can't play D?

Who just won the title? Wanna tell me about the Laker's shoot first point guard?

fishmike wrote:knicks1248 also thought the same about Trey Burke... and then when Phili got him it was because they were a "winning team"

Wait, how do you know Trey Burke wasn't the answer. the guy played great. One of the issues I've had with this leadership is that they are always looking for a home run. Trey Burke is not a franchise player, but he can break down the D, he can run a team , he can score, he can win games. Sure he has his weaknesses, but we're supposed to keep good rotation players in order to build a team. DSJ is a much cheaper option now that he has faltered, so if he can prove to be a rotation player, we can add to a nice stable of rotation players, like Dot, Bullock, Frank,Mitch. So hopefully when we find our Thanks giving Turkey we will have all the fixins to go with it. If some of those Miami players were on the knicks, we would be talking about them like they were bums.

BigDaddyG wrote:

IdreamofEwing wrote:

fishmike wrote:knicks1248 also thought the same about Trey Burke... and then when Phili got him it was because they were a "winning team"

Wait, how do you know Trey Burke wasn't the answer. the guy played great. One of the issues I've had with this leadership is that they are always looking for a home run. Trey Burke is not a franchise player, but he can break down the D, he can run a team , he can score, he can win games. Sure he has his weaknesses, but we're supposed to keep good rotation players in order to build a team. DSJ is a much cheaper option now that he has faltered, so if he can prove to be a rotation player, we can add to a nice stable of rotation players, like Dot, Bullock, Frank,Mitch. So hopefully when we find our Thanks giving Turkey we will have all the fixins to go with it. If some of those Miami players were on the knicks, we would be talking about them like they were bums.

Trey wasn't the answer because he was fully formed and didn't address the need for a frontline PG. It would've made sense to keep Trey as a bench spark plugs if that team was playoff bound. On the Knicks he was just a stat passer taking minutes away from younger players. I agree that we have to be patient with our young guys. But there's a new crop of prospects coming in every year. We need to move on if Frank and DSJ. That doesn't mean to reach for a PG at #8, but it does mean that the PG spot is still up for grabs IMHO.

I’ve said this before and I will say it again. If they don’t draft a PG and if they don’t trade for Chris Paul or Heaven forbid, Russell Westbrook, they should just announce on the first day of training came that Frank is the guy this year and that the team will be riding on his leadership. No PG battles (because when has that worked?) and no yanking Frank whenever he makes one mistake. Just make him the starter and see where the team goes from there and if he’s not a good leader, maybe RJ steps up. We aren’t expecting the Knicks to be good this year anyway.

knicks1248 wrote:It's really amazing how some fans don't see the upside IN DSJ.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/1320100752052776960

If DSJ was the “Answer”, what was the question?

He's the most athletic guy on the court most nights, rarely gets to the basket, can't shoot, has terrible body language and let's not forget leaves the team when things get tough. Most likely mentally unstable.

That said there is no reason, he shouldn't be averaging double figure off the bench. He's a guy you need to build up so you can move for a pick and find a Tyler Hero, Mikal Bridges, guys that are going to grind and work hard.

DSJR better come ready to play this year, the kid is definitely in danger of playing himself out of the league.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:DSJ plays no defense, is a horrific shooter, turns the ball over a ton and is not only a locker room cancer but even acts like moping headcase on the court during games. DSJ is the answer if you like losing

the guy avg lees than 2 TO's, we were a very bad defensive team in the 32+ games DSJ didn't even play in.

And If frank and peyton are better defenders, please explain how for 8 straight games, the opposing PG lit both of them up for 20+ points, and in half those games some guys some had career nights...

Donavan Mitchell and Murry lit each other up in he playoffs, would you avoid signing anyone of them because they can't play D?

only problem with your strawman argument is DSJ is nothing like Murray or DVM.

Who just won the title? Wanna tell me about the Laker's shoot first point guard?

When we could have hah rondo, we signed Baker and Jack, and you thought that was a better option..

The Lakers Have Lebron James..

All I'm saying is that DSJ style fits Thibs system, better than the other 2 we have

KnickDanger wrote:For around their first two years, there was a "pick one -- DSJ or Frank" mentality around the Knicks universe. If you like one then hate on the other. DSJ was the sweetheart in the beginning -- to me it was just transferred Phil hate, which seems to still linger, definitely in what I observe as the palpable desire for Frank to fail among some fans and media gasbags. Anyway, I do think there are quite a few of us that would pull for either or both to thrive. At this point you'd have to say Frank showed some uptick in this past Frankenstein season while Smith Jr. trended way downward. Always mitigating factors especially with the Knicks. But here's hoping. I get this topic has driven the Knicks "narrative" and discussion for all this time. Just as long as it doesn't turn to the absolutely disingenuous "Phil blew it by not picking Donovan Mitchell." Usually uttered by people who would have led the pants wetting parade at the time if we had.

Agree with the "DSJR or Frank" mentality. Fact is everyone on this board has been on one side of the argument from the start. Including myself. Hated the Frank pick as I thought there were more proven players available and he was picked for the Triangle. Disagree that Donavan would have been frowned upon. Fact is there was a lot of talk about DM as our pick. Grant it early on it was related to talk of the Knicks possibly adding another 1st round pick and using it on DM but as the draft got closer he was definitely a consideration at 8. Many of us liked his two way potential. He also had lineage with the Knicks. But agree, picks are easy only in retrospect. Despite liking or disliking the pick, your right. Do not see the rational with hoping only one of those two make it. Facts are that Smith was the better player in the first two years. Frank had a better year last year and showed signs of coming out of his offensive coma. I see it as a win win if both are able to turn it around. Would love to see both of them on the court at the same time. Think that can be done if we had a solid stretch 4 that can knock down threes and a consistent 3pt shooter at the 2 or 3. Feel last year will be proven to be an off year for him. I do think the biggest challenge for Smith will be his confidence. Will greatly depend on his outside shot and increased support by the fans. Ultimately, I feel he will be traded. So hopefully he can build up his value in training camp or early on. Think the trade will be best for both the Knicks and Smith. Feel Frank is a better fit long term as he can be a better role player because of his defense. Regardless, I do not think either of those two guys will matter much going forward as it seems as the new management will definitely go out and get a BIG name PG for next year.

Can't wait for the draft. Will be interesting what the management team decide to do. Still think they are unfortunately going to blow things up and go all in for FA's and vets.

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

IdreamofEwing wrote:

fishmike wrote:knicks1248 also thought the same about Trey Burke... and then when Phili got him it was because they were a "winning team"

Wait, how do you know Trey Burke wasn't the answer. the guy played great. One of the issues I've had with this leadership is that they are always looking for a home run. Trey Burke is not a franchise player, but he can break down the D, he can run a team , he can score, he can win games. Sure he has his weaknesses, but we're supposed to keep good rotation players in order to build a team. DSJ is a much cheaper option now that he has faltered, so if he can prove to be a rotation player, we can add to a nice stable of rotation players, like Dot, Bullock, Frank,Mitch. So hopefully when we find our Thanks giving Turkey we will have all the fixins to go with it. If some of those Miami players were on the knicks, we would be talking about them like they were bums.

Trey wasn't the answer because he was fully formed and didn't address the need for a frontline PG. It would've made sense to keep Trey as a bench spark plugs if that team was playoff bound. On the Knicks he was just a stat passer taking minutes away from younger players. I agree that we have to be patient with our young guys. But there's a new crop of prospects coming in every year. We need to move on if Frank and DSJ. That doesn't mean to reach for a PG at #8, but it does mean that the PG spot is still up for grabs IMHO.

I’ve said this before and I will say it again. If they don’t draft a PG and if they don’t trade for Chris Paul or Heaven forbid, Russell Westbrook, they should just announce on the first day of training came that Frank is the guy this year and that the team will be riding on his leadership. No PG battles (because when has that worked?) and no yanking Frank whenever he makes one mistake. Just make him the starter and see where the team goes from there and if he’s not a good leader, maybe RJ steps up. We aren’t expecting the Knicks to be good this year anyway.

I think Thibs already leaked that Frank would start if no other moves are made. This is it. No more excuse for Frank or DSJ (I'm giving Knox a little more leeway and RJ isn't the type who struggle with motivation). And I'm not expecting the world. Frank needs to shoot at least 34% from three and DSJ needs at least approach Jerryd Bayless level.

Oh I agree. I didn’t mention that DSJ needs a specific role as well. He could easily be a big spark off the bench. Make him the 6th or 7th man.

I really don’t know why Frank can’t shoot better from 3 as of yet. He has decent enough form. 35% from 3 at minimum really shouldn’t be that hard for him.

You think a new regime is going to go with the previous regimes roster..lol

Maybe if it was just a new coach, or this was in the middle of the season. I think the this Regime primary keeper is RJ with Mitch, knox and DSJ on the fence, everyone else is trade bait.

Knox and DSJ are on the fence, but Frank isn't? The truth is that any one of those guys can be moved in the right deal. Yes, RJ has shown flashes. But the jury is still out on whether he can be a star. Mitch has loads of promise and value, but he is up for a big contract. This team needs more talent and it's not a move or two away. I'm hopeful DSJ bounces back and Frank/Knox gain consistency. But I'm not sure our starting point guard "answer" is on our roster. What makes you think DSJ is a Thibs player? Because he can dunk like Derrick Rose? I hated Rose when he was a Knick, but even I can admit DSJ is no Rose. Defenses bend when Rose is on the court. Defense barely bothered to defend DSJ when he was on the court last year. There are no quick answers and Superman isn't going to swoop in and save this team. Just stay patient and wait for the team to collect talent. Maybe then they will have enough assets to get a meaningful talent.

KnickDanger wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:For around their first two years, there was a "pick one -- DSJ or Frank" mentality around the Knicks universe. If you like one then hate on the other. DSJ was the sweetheart in the beginning -- to me it was just transferred Phil hate, which seems to still linger, definitely in what I observe as the palpable desire for Frank to fail among some fans and media gasbags. Anyway, I do think there are quite a few of us that would pull for either or both to thrive. At this point you'd have to say Frank showed some uptick in this past Frankenstein season while Smith Jr. trended way downward. Always mitigating factors especially with the Knicks. But here's hoping. I get this topic has driven the Knicks "narrative" and discussion for all this time. Just as long as it doesn't turn to the absolutely disingenuous "Phil blew it by not picking Donovan Mitchell." Usually uttered by people who would have led the pants wetting parade at the time if we had.

Agree with the "DSJR or Frank" mentality. Fact is everyone on this board has been on one side of the argument from the start. Including myself. Hated the Frank pick as I thought there were more proven players available and he was picked for the Triangle. Disagree that Donavan would have been frowned upon. Fact is there was a lot of talk about DM as our pick. Grant it early on it was related to talk of the Knicks possibly adding another 1st round pick and using it on DM but as the draft got closer he was definitely a consideration at 8. Many of us liked his two way potential. He also had lineage with the Knicks. But agree, picks are easy only in retrospect. Despite liking or disliking the pick, your right. Do not see the rational with hoping only one of those two make it. Facts are that Smith was the better player in the first two years. Frank had a better year last year and showed signs of coming out of his offensive coma. I see it as a win win if both are able to turn it around. Would love to see both of them on the court at the same time. Think that can be done if we had a solid stretch 4 that can knock down threes and a consistent 3pt shooter at the 2 or 3. Feel last year will be proven to be an off year for him. I do think the biggest challenge for Smith will be his confidence. Will greatly depend on his outside shot and increased support by the fans. Ultimately, I feel he will be traded. So hopefully he can build up his value in training camp or early on. Think the trade will be best for both the Knicks and Smith. Feel Frank is a better fit long term as he can be a better role player because of his defense. Regardless, I do not think either of those two guys will matter much going forward as it seems as the new management will definitely go out and get a BIG name PG for next year.

Can't wait for the draft. Will be interesting what the management team decide to do. Still think they are unfortunately going to blow things up and go all in for FA's and vets.

As per Donovan Mitchell -- of course I am only speculating (and overstating the point) and I do recall Mitchell's name being bandied about. But the focus was really on Frank, DSJ, and Monk (notwithstanding players picked before 8) and in my estimation there would have been a great outcry over "reaching" for Mitchell. So I consider any talk that we should have picked him as revisionist. But it really doesn't matter now :)

We're all looking forward to this crazy draft -- and I am hopeful on new management. We'll see.

11 teams besides the Knicks passed on Mitchell. Laughing at the Knicks for passing on Donovan Mitchell is ignorant knick hater noise