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Durant just wants to chill lol
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Nalod
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9/11/2020  1:39 PM
Mrs. Nalod is wondering why I have tears in my eyes from laughing!!!
Triple dropped a 4pt post!!!

Back on point: Do we really think we understand Durants thinking of how he is perceived?
This notion that after a 8 hour series self produced by Jordan he is affirmed the god of gods?
That LeBron wanted Riley vs. Spoe is a defining moment? Riles came back when Shaq wanted Stan Van Gundy exiled.
Did Dirk really hide out in Dallas? Hide from what? NY media? His criminal fiance? He got a chip and MVP! Cuban got good weed from the Nelson family! It worked.
I don't see what Durant did that was so agregious. He had the balls to go free agency twice. Second time he freaking blew out the Achilles! I don't know what other teams though about paying him 35mil to sit and heal, or if we would have done that but WOW!!!!! He earned that right and took the risks. A lot of players don't.
In a way Durant put winning over money.
Jordan stayed in chicago because nobody could come close to paying him 30 plus million 20 years ago. I think 18 was tops. He came back to play for Wiz becuas he is a an adreniline crack head and was the GM.
But lets not be naive. Melo never exposed himself to the risk Durant did. I like that Melo stayed in NY and got his no trade clause but my feeling always has been Dolan was never going to let him walk and Melo liked it here.
But he did not come here as a free agent, he was traded. I don't blame him btw and don't measure.
its also a bit insulting to durant for thinnking he is taking it easy. As if being a pro at his level does not require hard work.
AUTOADVERT
smackeddog
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9/11/2020  1:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/11/2020  2:09 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:While I don't have a problem with people wanting to live a happy, stress free life, I just find KD annoying in interviews (I don't know why)- and this one is no exception! I get the impression he's not especially popular with players either.

Why is he even being asked this at this point? I don't think I've ever seen Knick fans move on as quickly as we did after he announced his decision, I genuinely don't think any of us lament him and Kyrie not being here (think more people lament KP not being here than KD)- I'm glad we don't have to spend the next few seasons pretending to like them.

Same here. But I'm not surprised at all by why I find him annoying. He was raised by a single mother and emulates a single mother's behavior. I get the distinct impression he had no male relatives to serve as a counterweight to that energy during his formative years, which is how you get the never accountable, never satisfied, bitchy undertone to him. Fortunately for KD, he was destined to be an incredibly gifted giant, which is why people overlooked those character flaws for so long and how he's managed to survive within male circles for years. But the minute Father-Time robs him of those gifts, I suspect he'll be a lonely man. Maybe it might allow for some introspection from him....probably not though.

You have issue with single mothers? Your in his head and predict his lonely post career? This man is in the top 1% of his profession and then a top 10 player out of 450 players who got to that level and you admonish him for not being a fully developed male? He has been idolized and catered to since he was 16 years old and is wealthy beyond. None of this is normal.
Do we take issue with guys like Him and Lebron who have dictated their own choices for better or worse as some form of envy of power? Lebron did not handle things well in his youth but is he not allowed to evolve?
Personally I thought Durant handled it very business like. He is forced to interact with the media but I thought given the pressure and circumstances from media and fans he was matter of fact. He also don’t give a rats ass what we think. That him and Kyrie are I powered to make choices and carry that power is not because they are well adjusted males, it’s because they are very good at what they do. Will it carry over on the court? Maybe. Financially Nets owner think its a good hire. Dow we really hate these guys for picking their own coach? Meow!
Media and fans love to tear em down.
I don’t think anyone puts Durant in Jordan or Lebron territory. He joined a successful ensemble in Golden state and they really did well with it. That teams would pay him to sit for a year demonstrates his value. Financially its baffling at any level.
That he picked BKN over Knicks was a good choice for him. You can root for their failure as a fans prerogative. My concern is how we do vs them or any other team.

Single mothers are single mothers for a reason. Often times there is a self-destructive pattern to their behavior, which is why they find themselves in the predicament they do. Not all obviously; but definitely most. And in my opinion, those caustic qualities are on full display in KD. And yes, I am in his head and can predict his post-career.

I don't believe LeBron and KD are fair comparisons as far as character is concerned. LeBron has had his fair share of missteps but there is a level of growth I've seen from his public persona that can only come with a level of introspection and a willingness to listen to others. KD is still making the same faux pas he's made since late in his OKC career after the luster of him being not-LeBron wore off.

I also never intimated that KD was not a talented player or that he wouldn't move merchandise/tickets. It's a good move short-term on the business side, since names satiate the rubes of the sport. But as far as the basketball side is concerned? He and Kyrie are a mistake long-term. Time will prove that.

Don't know what your issue is with single mothers, I don't recognise the personality type you've ascribed to all of them. Maybe you've had a few bad encounters, but honestly you should meet more of them and you'd learn how silly it is to stereotype people. Not an attack on you, I usually like your posts, but I know a lot of single mothers so it feels wrong not to say anything.

BigDaddyG
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9/11/2020  2:14 PM
Nalod wrote:Mrs. Nalod is wondering why I have tears in my eyes from laughing!!!
Triple dropped a 4pt post!!!

Back on point: Do we really think we understand Durants thinking of how he is perceived?
This notion that after a 8 hour series self produced by Jordan he is affirmed the god of gods?
That LeBron wanted Riley vs. Spoe is a defining moment? Riles came back when Shaq wanted Stan Van Gundy exiled.
Did Dirk really hide out in Dallas? Hide from what? NY media? His criminal fiance? He got a chip and MVP! Cuban got good weed from the Nelson family! It worked.
I don't see what Durant did that was so agregious. He had the balls to go free agency twice. Second time he freaking blew out the Achilles! I don't know what other teams though about paying him 35mil to sit and heal, or if we would have done that but WOW!!!!! He earned that right and took the risks. A lot of players don't.
In a way Durant put winning over money.
Jordan stayed in chicago because nobody could come close to paying him 30 plus million 20 years ago. I think 18 was tops. He came back to play for Wiz becuas he is a an adreniline crack head and was the GM.
But lets not be naive. Melo never exposed himself to the risk Durant did. I like that Melo stayed in NY and got his no trade clause but my feeling always has been Dolan was never going to let him walk and Melo liked it here.
But he did not come here as a free agent, he was traded. I don't blame him btw and don't measure.
its also a bit insulting to durant for thinnking he is taking it easy. As if being a pro at his level does not require hard work.

This alone doesn't paint a picture. But the burner accounts and other remarks he's made does. Some way say he's sensitive, others would just say he's soft.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fwk00
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9/11/2020  2:33 PM
The Kyrie and Durant NY tease circus cost the Knicks a lot of collateral damage that's inexcusable and, IMO, unprofessional.

First the disingenuous and fraudulent insider disinformation that "Durant wanted to play for the Knicks". The FO was convinced this was true and then Dolan was convinced as well. Everyone got burned. And not only got burned, the Knicks entire roster strategy and actions were predicated on the idea that if they created the cap space, he would come. This charade went on for F'n years.

I'm glad that Durant didn't sign and said so. But the tease went on and on. ESPN and all the worthless NBA commentators tied the knicks to a rope on the back of the media bus and drove them through town until the team was made an example of. And through all of it, the Knicks - in a sincere effort to improve - were instead being systematically stripped of the agency to truly improve, develop, stabilize, and think clearly.

Between the unnecessary draft process, team salary cap, regional tax differentials, and a free agent process dedicated to greed and only greed, the Knicks do not need media driven FA fraudulent reports of interest.

Compound the LeBron recommendation of David Fizdale to coach and the Knicks could claim psych-ops abuse charges against the league. Lebron probably partied to the idiocy of hiring Fizdale.

The starphuck system is gamed to humiliate the Knicks and optimize profiting second-rate talent on the Kicks dime.

Nalod
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9/11/2020  2:50 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Nalod wrote:Mrs. Nalod is wondering why I have tears in my eyes from laughing!!!
Triple dropped a 4pt post!!!

Back on point: Do we really think we understand Durants thinking of how he is perceived?
This notion that after a 8 hour series self produced by Jordan he is affirmed the god of gods?
That LeBron wanted Riley vs. Spoe is a defining moment? Riles came back when Shaq wanted Stan Van Gundy exiled.
Did Dirk really hide out in Dallas? Hide from what? NY media? His criminal fiance? He got a chip and MVP! Cuban got good weed from the Nelson family! It worked.
I don't see what Durant did that was so agregious. He had the balls to go free agency twice. Second time he freaking blew out the Achilles! I don't know what other teams though about paying him 35mil to sit and heal, or if we would have done that but WOW!!!!! He earned that right and took the risks. A lot of players don't.
In a way Durant put winning over money.
Jordan stayed in chicago because nobody could come close to paying him 30 plus million 20 years ago. I think 18 was tops. He came back to play for Wiz becuas he is a an adreniline crack head and was the GM.
But lets not be naive. Melo never exposed himself to the risk Durant did. I like that Melo stayed in NY and got his no trade clause but my feeling always has been Dolan was never going to let him walk and Melo liked it here.
But he did not come here as a free agent, he was traded. I don't blame him btw and don't measure.
its also a bit insulting to durant for thinnking he is taking it easy. As if being a pro at his level does not require hard work.

This alone doesn't paint a picture. But the burner accounts and other remarks he's made does. Some way say he's sensitive, others would just say he's soft.

For the most part I try not to let others paint the narrative and then follow when it comes to athletes unless its racist or antisemetic. These guys have mic's stuck in their face all the time and are not english majors and subsequent tweets are often not properly presented and this we pick them apart. They should not tweet many things but then its their perogative. They are ball players and Durant is a HOF talent. He played his cards right and took the risks to control his destiny. Not all players can or are willing to. Lets just say I don't care if he is sensitive or not off the court to critisism.

Nalod
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9/11/2020  2:59 PM
fwk00 wrote:The Kyrie and Durant NY tease circus cost the Knicks a lot of collateral damage that's inexcusable and, IMO, unprofessional.

First the disingenuous and fraudulent insider disinformation that "Durant wanted to play for the Knicks". The FO was convinced this was true and then Dolan was convinced as well. Everyone got burned. And not only got burned, the Knicks entire roster strategy and actions were predicated on the idea that if they created the cap space, he would come. This charade went on for F'n years.

I'm glad that Durant didn't sign and said so. But the tease went on and on. ESPN and all the worthless NBA commentators tied the knicks to a rope on the back of the media bus and drove them through town until the team was made an example of. And through all of it, the Knicks - in a sincere effort to improve - were instead being systematically stripped of the agency to truly improve, develop, stabilize, and think clearly.

Between the unnecessary draft process, team salary cap, regional tax differentials, and a free agent process dedicated to greed and only greed, the Knicks do not need media driven FA fraudulent reports of interest.

Compound the LeBron recommendation of David Fizdale to coach and the Knicks could claim psych-ops abuse charges against the league. Lebron probably partied to the idiocy of hiring Fizdale.

The starphuck system is gamed to humiliate the Knicks and optimize profiting second-rate talent on the Kicks dime.

Then perhaps this is why Dolan fired Mills. If this was the thinking in MSG then shame on us. If we traded KP at a discount to open cap space up based on media noise or disingenuous agent rumor mongering then thats just messed up.

Fizdale had been hired by Memphis before and his warts would and should have been vetted. This is the first im reading about Lebron giving his blessing or suggestion we hire him. Fizdale is from the Riley Tree. Not sure there is much negligence in his hiring. Hindsight has demonstrated he did not do a good job here but it was mixed in Memphis.

smackeddog
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9/11/2020  3:16 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Nalod wrote:Mrs. Nalod is wondering why I have tears in my eyes from laughing!!!
Triple dropped a 4pt post!!!

Back on point: Do we really think we understand Durants thinking of how he is perceived?
This notion that after a 8 hour series self produced by Jordan he is affirmed the god of gods?
That LeBron wanted Riley vs. Spoe is a defining moment? Riles came back when Shaq wanted Stan Van Gundy exiled.
Did Dirk really hide out in Dallas? Hide from what? NY media? His criminal fiance? He got a chip and MVP! Cuban got good weed from the Nelson family! It worked.
I don't see what Durant did that was so agregious. He had the balls to go free agency twice. Second time he freaking blew out the Achilles! I don't know what other teams though about paying him 35mil to sit and heal, or if we would have done that but WOW!!!!! He earned that right and took the risks. A lot of players don't.
In a way Durant put winning over money.
Jordan stayed in chicago because nobody could come close to paying him 30 plus million 20 years ago. I think 18 was tops. He came back to play for Wiz becuas he is a an adreniline crack head and was the GM.
But lets not be naive. Melo never exposed himself to the risk Durant did. I like that Melo stayed in NY and got his no trade clause but my feeling always has been Dolan was never going to let him walk and Melo liked it here.
But he did not come here as a free agent, he was traded. I don't blame him btw and don't measure.
its also a bit insulting to durant for thinnking he is taking it easy. As if being a pro at his level does not require hard work.

This alone doesn't paint a picture. But the burner accounts and other remarks he's made does. Some way say he's sensitive, others would just say he's soft.

I’d say he’s sensitive to criticism, not sensitive (being sensitive tends to also mean someone’s more likely to be empathic, reflective, self aware etc, none of which I’d use to describe KD), but I don’t actually know him so could be completely wrong- he might be a great guy!

fwk00
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9/11/2020  4:38 PM
Nalod wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Kyrie and Durant NY tease circus cost the Knicks a lot of collateral damage that's inexcusable and, IMO, unprofessional.

First the disingenuous and fraudulent insider disinformation that "Durant wanted to play for the Knicks". The FO was convinced this was true and then Dolan was convinced as well. Everyone got burned. And not only got burned, the Knicks entire roster strategy and actions were predicated on the idea that if they created the cap space, he would come. This charade went on for F'n years.

I'm glad that Durant didn't sign and said so. But the tease went on and on. ESPN and all the worthless NBA commentators tied the knicks to a rope on the back of the media bus and drove them through town until the team was made an example of. And through all of it, the Knicks - in a sincere effort to improve - were instead being systematically stripped of the agency to truly improve, develop, stabilize, and think clearly.

Between the unnecessary draft process, team salary cap, regional tax differentials, and a free agent process dedicated to greed and only greed, the Knicks do not need media driven FA fraudulent reports of interest.

Compound the LeBron recommendation of David Fizdale to coach and the Knicks could claim psych-ops abuse charges against the league. Lebron probably partied to the idiocy of hiring Fizdale.

The starphuck system is gamed to humiliate the Knicks and optimize profiting second-rate talent on the Kicks dime.

Then perhaps this is why Dolan fired Mills. If this was the thinking in MSG then shame on us. If we traded KP at a discount to open cap space up based on media noise or disingenuous agent rumor mongering then thats just messed up.

Fizdale had been hired by Memphis before and his warts would and should have been vetted. This is the first im reading about Lebron giving his blessing or suggestion we hire him. Fizdale is from the Riley Tree. Not sure there is much negligence in his hiring. Hindsight has demonstrated he did not do a good job here but it was mixed in Memphis.

The Knicks have enemies in the NBA. IMO, LeBron is an obvious one. In fact I think part of his charisma is due to rebuking and humiliating the Knicks. His ESPN media posse is a case in point. Yes, he promoted the hiring of Fizdale and his media lieutenants talked it up. This is one of the major setbacks the Knicks have had despite many on these forums recognizing the hire for what it was. The unintended consequences is that Frankie's development was not only sidetracked but opened him up to unfair criticism, other players were miscast (Randle laughably as Point Forward), and so on.

This cascading little shop of horrors then made the Mills off-season pickups look like foolishness and so on. Yes careers are altered, the team's development is sent on fool's errands, and the Knicks are yet again jerked around by these malicious idiots.

The only way to eliminate this insider bad faith trading of information is to eliminate the draft. Once teams can independently sign the players they need without the insider trading, the NBA scumbags lose their monopoly on the destiny of other teams.

fitzfarm
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9/11/2020  4:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/11/2020  5:12 PM
I think KD is weak for going to GS, just like I think Lebron is Weak for going to the heat cause he couldn’t win in Cleveland.

Regardless of the justification it’s tainted, its a p ussy move.

It’s like if Jordan and Karl Malone teamed up with Ewing in New York. Would we have won chips? heck yeah. Would it have been easy? yeah. Would it have ruined the competition in the NBA and Fan Base, yes.

Now do I think the nets will win a chip with a older KD and Kyrie lol no they don’t have a chance in heLL.

The warrior mentality is dead in today’s NBA and the younger generation doesn’t get it. Growing up when players wanted to be the best, not join the best.

To me Ewing, Reggie,Malone, Barkley and Payton are better players I respect them more then Lebron or KD They didn’t p ussy out to get a easy chip. They wanted to beat the best to be the best... did those guys win chips no but they have there dignity and they have gone down as all time greats.

Chandler
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9/11/2020  6:29 PM

there are a lot of super successful people who are insecure. One of the theories (which i find compelling) is that their insecurity drives them to get the A instead of A- etc based on fear of failure.

So even though they have all of this success they can still be thin-skinned etc (looking at you Lebron, Kyrie, KD, etc.) One might think someone so successful has all this confidence, but often not the case.

All that said, Durant has pulled his fair share of bitch moves, including leaving OKC with nothing. If he wants to chill, then chill. Don't give an interview saying you want to chill and then further demonstrating you're a bitch. (I have visions of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: Tuco the Ugly: When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.)

(5)(7)
Chandler
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9/11/2020  6:34 PM
fitzfarm wrote:I think KD is weak for going to GS, just like I think Lebron is Weak for going to the heat cause he couldn’t win in Cleveland.

Regardless of the justification it’s tainted, its a p ussy move.

It’s like if Jordan and Karl Malone teamed up with Ewing in New York. Would we have won chips? heck yeah. Would it have been easy? yeah. Would it have ruined the competition in the NBA and Fan Base, yes.

Now do I think the nets will win a chip with a older KD and Kyrie lol no they don’t have a chance in heLL.

The warrior mentality is dead in today’s NBA and the younger generation doesn’t get it. Growing up when players wanted to be the best, not join the best.

To me Ewing, Reggie,Malone, Barkley and Payton are better players I respect them more then Lebron or KD They didn’t p ussy out to get a easy chip. They wanted to beat the best to be the best... did those guys win chips no but they have there dignity and they have gone down as all time greats.

great post but one fact check: Malone and Payton both tried the Dream Team chip chasing in LA.

everything else is spot on.

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GustavBahler
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9/11/2020  7:55 PM
Easier for Durant and other Nets to chill. With a state of the art practice facility nearby. Tough enough to get players to sign with the Knicks. Dolan cant offer a legit NYC experience without a facility in town.

With Dolan's entertainment experience, Im sure he could come up with something really sweet. Not the time to be cheap. This would be the time to build one, while the league is in a bubble. Im sure players would like a place nearby to chill. Avoid that commute when they could be resting up.

TPercy
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9/12/2020  12:55 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Durant you will go down in history as someone who never could win it on their own. Your starpucked chips with GS will be remembered as lame sell out chips . Your second tier bro You don’t deserve New York, you deserve to be forgotten in Brooklyn a second tier franchise you got what you deserve. Now just chill and stop talking about your decision that no one cares about.

In order to promote the LeBron "narrative" to drive the leagues marketing, two things had to happen, mostly to cover up LBJ's mistakes

1) There needed to be a villain team to highlight what LBJ had to overcome to be a champion

2) There needed to be a storyline that LBJ did it "without help"

The GSW did everything the right way. They stuck to the draft, even when it did not work out for them, they ran an extremely clean cap sheet, they began, mostly under Jerry West, to trade players at the right time and always put themselves in the position for opportunity. They did have luck in Curry and Thompson to have historic level shooters who had NBA bloodlines and were basically very laid back team oriented personalities.

They played fundamental team basketball with a respected coach in Kerr and built a contender organically, mostly without tanking. There is very little to criticize in how the Warriors ran their team

Then suddenly the sports media, driven by the league and networks and brand interests, tried desperately to paint them as doing something wrong by signing Durant. As if any of the other 29 teams would do differently. They did not control Curry's ankle problems that created the value contract he was on , they did not plan the luck to have Bogut fall off their salary at the right time, they could not predict a historic cap spike that the players as a group voted not to smooth out.

Durant was painted as a loser and someone not man enough to run his own team. He earned the right to be a free agent. He earned the right to choose his destination. David Stern said it best Post Decision, that the league simply cannot force a player to play on a team past a certain point. It's not Durants fault that there is not enough elite talent to stock every team in the league. Durant always played hard, he played clean, he played the right way. He kept his nose out of legal problems.

The league felt compelled to push this "narrative" because it needed to force feed LeBron James as a hero to fit the marketing.

Except LBJ tried to get the best coach he's ever played for fired, who is now arguably the best coach in the entire league. He also became LeGM and ran every single roster he's been on into the ground. He left his own team and did what Durant was accused of, even more egregiously, and **** on his hometown in a half hour special on national TV. He's the only active player allowed to illegally tamper ( since he owns Klutch Sports and everyone has to pretend he does not) On the executive committee for the NBPA, he pushed for changes that benefited himself, Chris Paul and Melo that essentially ****ed over incoming rookies for generations to come. He singlehandedly spurred th reaction in owners that destroyed the middle class salary structure. His departure from the Cavs the first time was the reason behind the Super Max provisions that now have anchored teams into misery for stretches of up to a half decade or more.

The Warriors were never meant to keep winning championships, they were meant to get to the Finals and lose to LeBron James. Except the refs couldn't cheat a historic level three point shooting team. Even though the refs tried several times. So the league kept pushing the story that LBJ never had any real help, ignoring the fact that the biggest reason is LBJ himself and his dumb ass LeGM moments. The more the Warriors played the right way, aside from Zaza, the more the storyline got idiotic. The more Curry and Thompson succeeded as team players, the more dumb it all started to sound, so all the focus had to be pinned on Durant.

Now the league has to pander to the new LeMandela movement. Because Nike needs a return on it's billion dollar investment on a player who might never sniff another championship based on his own stupidity.

I get why Durant is frustrated. He's done nothing on the level of LBJ's nimrod behavior, but the media keeps painting him as some type of weak willed traitor.

His mistake was to talk about it at all in the press. And social media. He should have said nothing, given no interviews and kept winning. Stayed on the Warriors his entire career and just kept winning rings. The best way to stop the LBJ narrative is to force a situation where the sports media and networks can't make excuses for him anymore. If Durant stayed on the Warriors and won 3 more rings on top of the two he had then no one would ever say much ever again.

The story cracks the deeper you look. Some people want to cite Kobe Bryant stayed with one team his whole career. They ignore the issue that he forced his way there as a rookie then he raped a girl and tanked a championship run, he feuded with Shaq that caused problems in other runs, he tried to force a trade to Chicago that failed, he sank his team in his last years with selfish play. Charles Barkley, a big critic, didn't stay with one team and didn't stay out of trouble with the law. Jordan was banned for two years for gambling. The only story that adds up is Dirk, who ironically wanted nothing to do with any of the league narratives or marketing, which is why he hid in Dallas.

I said this for years, there is not enough real legit NBA news to fill a 24/7/365 cycle, so this fake feud/soap opera **** is created to try to make the NBA relevant all year long.

Durant should have stayed silent or embraced the villain role forced upon him.

Personally I would have gone full villain. I would have seduced LBJ's mother and plated her. I would have ****ed her, filmed a sex tape and released it into the public.

I would walk into the Finals wearing a T shirt that said " The King and I both came out of the same hole "

I would trick out and super charge a family mini van and be a part time Uber driver and film my exploits and upload them to social media to moonlight my NBA career

I'd start my own Amway and irritate people all over the league about buying my ground breaking life changing water filters

I'd have an entourage full of midgets and pay them to start fights with people in the league. Nothing would entertain people more than seeing another bull**** question by a reporter then a midget could come flying over a table and tackling them.

I would become a licensed Zumba teacher and teach Zumba in the arena parking lot right after the game for fans

I would walk around and sign autographs and give fans coupons. Like grocery store coupons. I would be known as "Prince BOGO"

I would troll the living **** out of the NBA.

Definitely going in your top 5

The Future is Bright!
knicks1248
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9/12/2020  1:16 PM
How are you going to attract the very best when your a complete mess. The knicks need to get their sht together so they can become an attractive destination and thats really the bottom line.

You can't keep ripping players that don't want to come here. Ya'll sound like the bitter dude who say's "your so beautiful" she says thanks and keeps it moving and because she doesn't want to give him the time of day, he turns around and calls her a fat ugly bitch..

ES
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9/12/2020  1:22 PM
Chandler wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:I think KD is weak for going to GS, just like I think Lebron is Weak for going to the heat cause he couldn’t win in Cleveland.

Regardless of the justification it’s tainted, its a p ussy move.

It’s like if Jordan and Karl Malone teamed up with Ewing in New York. Would we have won chips? heck yeah. Would it have been easy? yeah. Would it have ruined the competition in the NBA and Fan Base, yes.

Now do I think the nets will win a chip with a older KD and Kyrie lol no they don’t have a chance in heLL.

The warrior mentality is dead in today’s NBA and the younger generation doesn’t get it. Growing up when players wanted to be the best, not join the best.

To me Ewing, Reggie,Malone, Barkley and Payton are better players I respect them more then Lebron or KD They didn’t p ussy out to get a easy chip. They wanted to beat the best to be the best... did those guys win chips no but they have there dignity and they have gone down as all time greats.

great post but one fact check: Malone and Payton both tried the Dream Team chip chasing in LA.

everything else is spot on.

Yeah, but there is a difference between chasing a ring at the end of your career as a supplemental piece to a team versus chasing stacked squads in your prime.
TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
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9/12/2020  4:49 PM
fitzfarm wrote:To me Ewing, Reggie,Malone, Barkley and Payton are better players I respect them more then Lebron or KD They didn’t p ussy out to get a easy chip. They wanted to beat the best to be the best... did those guys win chips no but they have there dignity and they have gone down as all time greats.

Gary Payton was close to universally hated in Seattle. Maybe not in the open press. He held that team hostage for a decade and he still has enemies in the league over it today. Like Charles Oakley, that mentality, he would just get abusive to everyone. Teammates, coaches, the press, the local politicians, everyone. Beating up a bi-sexual guy in a strip club doesn't help your image. When Howard Schultz bought the team, the local circuit at the time ( local big business, politicians, etc) only asked one thing. Get rid of Payton. His savagery helped him on the court but it's not like he turned it off when he wasn't playing. Except for a handful of people, most people who played with Payton despised him. He's widely considered one of the worst bullies to ever play in the NBA.

Charles Barkley tried to be one of the first LeGM's. When he couldn't run personnel in Philly and steam roll Howard Katz( to be fair, the 76ers weren't exactly run like the current Warriors) he forced his way out into a pretty loaded team with the Suns. He also forced his way out of Phoenix to try to line up with Dream, Drexler, Pippen, etc to try to win a ring. He also had chronic issues with his weight and conditioning. He also had several run ins with the law and off court trouble.

Karl Malone in college got a 13 year old girl pregnant. Then fought all measures to pay child support until forced. Then refused to acknowledge his son until he got drafted into the NFL.

I love what Ewing gave on the floor every night. But his ****ty attitude off the court, his arrogance, pissed everyone off around the game. He couldn't get a real coaching job until David Falk bought him one. Literally paid 3 million to get him a coaching job. Got caught cheating on his wife in public. Couldn't stop himself from saying some truly stupid things to the press.

Oddly Reggie Miller, whom Knicks fans usually despise, is the cleanest guy on this list.

Kevin Durant has thin skin. He should probably delete his social media and just say nothing. He earned his free agency and wanted to play for a team who was going to help him win. He was tired of playing with Westbrook, and time has shown there's a good reason for that if you want a championship.

If the worse you can say about a guy is he has thin skin and looks insecure, that's better to me than a LeGM wannabe, a rapist, a guy cheating on his wife, a deadbeat dad, a guy who can't stay in shape, a bully and a guy who can only get people's compliance by paying them 3 million ****ing dollars.

Dignity my ass. What dignity is there in raping a 13 year old girl? And don't give me this "It's not on the court" bull****, because just about all of Durant's criticisms are off the court matters. Based on the criteria of this discussion, Durant has a problem because of a team he picked and you just said you respect a rapist, so Durant is the one with the problem here?

You've done the impossible. You've made Reggie Miller look good on a Knicks diehard board.

fitzfarm
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9/12/2020  6:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/12/2020  7:19 PM
You could take a deep dive into everyone in the nba Jordan was a gambler and a a sshole, Barkley was stupid and a drunk, Gary was a egotistical prick, Kobe was a rapist, LeBron refers to himself in 3rd person, durant is a weak egotistical jerk, Ewing was a ass off the court And Chris Paul is squeaky f Ing clean... The point isn’t to attack there personal lives... most have been treated higher then thou since high school hence the personal problems

We’re talking basketball man, and the reason no one teamed up in the 90’s early 2k is because they wanted to beat each other. Not team up and cheat the league to get a cheap ring . It’s easy to respect Ewing, Payton, Malone, Barkley, Stockton, rice, stack, Iverson. None are champs but would have easily become champs if they went against the code and teamed up.

Durant and LeBron have broken the code of competition. You don’t team up with the best you beat the best . Again I respect all the non champs way more then I respect the guys who took the easy way out cause they couldn’t win it on there own.

TripleThreat
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9/12/2020  7:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/12/2020  7:20 PM
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-last-dance-how-nba-rules-prevented-michael-jordans-bulls-from-facing-superteams-in-the-1990s/

But Jordan reigned over the NBA for most of a decade and deprived many of that era's greatest players of championships in the process. So why didn't, say, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing and Reggie Miller team up to oppose him? It's simple: the rules didn't allow it. While free agents were free to do as they saw fit for most of Jordan's career, the rules in place at the time made it almost impossible for superstars to actually use free agency to build their own contenders. To understand why, we need to venture back several decades to the very origins of free agency.
A brief history of free agency

The free agency enjoyed by modern players is a relatively new phenomenon. In fact, even the limited movement of the 1990s was an enormous shift from the league's early history. The NBA didn't grant any sort of free agency until 1976, and it only did so to settle a 1970 lawsuit brought about by Oscar Robertson.

The free agency adopted then had little in common with modern free agency. Teams were granted the right of first refusal on any contract offered to their own players, essentially making every player whose contract expired at that point the equivalent of a modern restricted free agent. If a team chose to let a player walk, the original team was granted compensation. That compensation was either negotiated between the two teams as a sort of trade, or decided unilaterally by the commissioner if the two sides could not agree.

This all changed four years into Jordan's career, when the 1988 CBA finally granted players unrestricted free agency once they'd hit certain criteria. As big a win as this was for players leaguewide, it didn't lead to the immediate formation of superteams. In fact, superstars were largely hesitant to explore unrestricted free agency at first. From the onset of unrestricted free agency in 1988 and Jordan's second retirement in 1998, only two reigning All-NBA players changed teams through free agency.

One was a 34-year-old Dominique Wilkins, who had already been traded a few months earlier. The other was Shaquille O'Neal, whose hometown fans infamously told him they didn't want him back at the price he was demanding. A third, Juwan Howard, tried to leave the Washington Bullets for the Miami Heat, but failed because the league ruled that the contract was illegal and that Miami had miscalculated its cap space.

Imagine something like that happening today. Teams spend years planning to have cap space in a specific moment because free agents change teams so frequently. It may have only happened twice in that first decade, but in the summer of 2019 alone, four different All-NBA players changed teams in free agency. It easily could've been more. The modern salary cap is designed to encourage player movement. The one that existed during Jordan's peak, though, was still built around the only reality the league had known to that point: superstars staying put. As a result, it functionally bound the overwhelming majority of superstars to their original team for the duration of their primes.

So let's look at some of the rules that enforced that reality, and how they were changed immediately after Jordan's retirement in the 1999 CBA. In some cases, they made it significantly harder for teams to create cap space. In others, they made it significantly harder for teams to use it. After all, the NBA at that point gave incumbent teams one enormous advantage in retaining their own players.
Larry Bird rights

The NBA has always used some version of this rule to allow teams to go over the salary cap to retain their own free agents. Those rules just became more stringent with time. In its original state, the Larry Bird Exception applied to any player who had been under his previous contract for at least one year. There were no exceptions and no tiers. All Bird Rights were created equal. The 1999 CBA altered this system into the one we have today. The current model includes three tiers: Non-Bird Rights (which came after one year), Early-Bird Rights (which come after two) and full Bird Rights (which come after three). Full Bird Rights allow a team to re-sign its own free agents for up to the max. Non-Bird Rights and Early-Bird Rights circumstantially allow some wiggle room, but not nearly that much.

This rule came from the right place. No team should lose an icon because of cap concerns. But it was utterly abused in practice, as players managed to use the it to circumvent the cap entirely and earn contracts that just wouldn't be possible today. Having no time restraints on Bird Rights meant that free agents pretty routinely signed short-term deals with the unwritten understanding that in the near future, they would re-sign newer, bigger deals that made up for the money they lost.

Horace Grant was the most famous example. He signed a suspicious five-year deal with the Orlando Magic in 1994. That deal paid him under $2.8 million for the 1995-96 season, but included an opt-out in the summer of 1996. Grant took it, and the new deal Orlando gave him paid him a cool $14.8 million for the 1996-97 season. Under the current rules, Grant would have only Early Bird Rights, and with them could have made only around $5.3 million that season from Orlando. This tactic was hardly confined to players of Grant's caliber, though. Chris Dudley executed a version of this plan so egregious that the league publicly called it "a blatant and transparent attempt" to circumvent the cap and challenged it in court.

If you're wondering why superstars didn't take advantage of this loophole, the short answer is that they didn't reach free agency often enough to do so. We'll explain why down the line. For the most part, teams used this tactic to bring in valuable players that weren't quite superstars. After all, if the NBA was willing to go to court over Dudley, imagine how it would have reacted if a team had nabbed Karl Malone on this sort of deal.

Almost every team in the league was taking advantage of this loophole in some form at the time. Without a Mid-Level Exception in place, it was the only tool a capped out team could use to add talent, and conversely, it was the only way a player could land with a team that lacked cap space. These under-the-table deals were so tempting and so inflated a team's cap numbers that preserving space required far more willpower. That was especially true given the lack of consequences of spending at the time.
The luxury tax

The NBA did not adopt any sort of luxury tax until the 1999 CBA. Even then, the tax would only be paid if the league as a whole paid players over a certain amount, not just individuals teams. That was corrected in 2005, and the more punitive version currently in existence was ratified in 2011. This meant that, so long as a team operated within the rules of the cap in acquiring and signing players, they would not be punished for spending literally any amount of money.

So what did this mean in terms of roster construction? Essentially, it gave teams the freedom to spend with impunity. The small-market Indiana Pacers had the third-highest payroll in the NBA by the 1996-97 season. Why? Because they spent over $18.7 million -- just under 77 percent of the cap -- on four players at the same position. They spent more on the combination of Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Rik Smits and Derek McKey, all big men, than either Toronto or Vancouver spent on their entire rosters. There just wasn't a reason not to. They happened to have those players. They all produced. There was no financial punishment for keeping them. So they kept them. On some level, this was happening practically everywhere. Opportunity cost leads to prudence that didn't exist in the 1990s.

The combination of limitless Bird Rights and no luxury tax practically begged teams to spend money retaining their own players. As such, as their cap sheets were occupied with players modern teams would have the restraint not to spend on. As meaningful as that combination was, though, it is dwarfed in importance by the single biggest driver of free-agent movement.
The max contract

Players were legally allowed to be paid any amount a team would willingly pay them until 1999, so long as that number fit either underneath the salary cap or the player's Bird Rights. There were no restrictions on amount (Michael Jordan made 123 percent of the salary cap for the 1997-98 season), or options (Chris Webber's 15-year rookie deal included a first-year opt-out), and while the 1995 CBA created a seven-year restriction on length, prior contracts greatly exceeded it (such as Magic Johnson's 25-year deal).

The 1999 CBA created the current three-tiered max system we have today. Players with between four and six years of experience can earn 25 percent of the cap in the first year of a new contract. Players with between seven and nine years of experience can earn 30 percent of it in the first year of a new contract. Players with 10 more years of experience can make 35 percent of it in their first seasons. Lengths have varied over the years, but currently, a team can get five years from his own team and four years from a new one.

Before these restrictions were in place, teams greatly exceeded them on both fronts. Let's start with salary. The highest first-year salary any current free agent can get is 35 percent of the salary cap. But according to Hoops Hype's salary database, between Jordan's first championship season (1990-91) and his last (1997-98), a staggering 26 players made salaries above 35 percent of the cap. That list includes plenty of players who might've liked a superstar teammate with which to battle Jordan: David Robinson (five times), Patrick Ewing (four times), Reggie Miller (twice), Gary Payton (twice) and Alonzo Mourning (twice) all make multiple appearances on that list.

In many cases, players took up comical percentages of the cap. Ewing routinely took up gargantuan amounts, as high as 76 percent of the cap in Jordan's final season, though he did grant the Knicks a bit of flexibility in 1996 by structuring his contract to include a lower cap number that summer. That was flexibility the Spurs, for instance, lacked. David Robinson cost San Antonio 46 percent of it in Jordan's final season.

These huge numbers didn't just make cap space harder to create, they made it harder to use. It's common sense. Modern free agents are hardly incentivized to remain in place. The ceiling on their max could rise if they gain supermax eligibility, but under no circumstances can that exceed 35 percent, and without it, they can only get one extra year on their contract and slightly higher annual raises to stay put. If LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh had all been allowed to negotiate for their market value in 2010, there is no way that the Heat would have been able to afford all three. But the max essentially took financial incentives off of the table. If all three could play together for virtually the same amount of money that they would make on their own, then suddenly playing together becomes far more appealing.

Older superstars did not have to make such sacrifices. If Ewing could make 76 percent of the cap from the Knicks, then he'd essentially have to take a 50 percent pay cut to join a new team even a modern max deal. Top players at that point hogged such a ridiculous percentage of a team's cap space, and could similarly demand that much from their own teams thanks to their Bird Rights, that building a superteam elsewhere would simply be financially impractical.

It wasn't just the sheer salary of these deals that made free-agent movement so difficult. It was their length. Ewing, for example, didn't reach free agency until 1996, 11 years after he was drafted. His rookie contract could have lasted anywhere from six to 10 years based on options. The length of those contracts incentivized early renegotiation because market conditions change during the life of those deals.

Nowadays, player contracts are organically so short and so often contain opt-outs that if a player is underpaid, he'll reach free agency soon enough to correct that. At that point? A player might be underpaid and still have six or seven years left on a deal. Making more money meant committing more years. Superstars routinely signed new deals years before their old ones would expire to ensure that they were properly paid.

Now think about those longer contracts in the context of an entire roster. When a team wants to sign multiple stars today, it simply jettisons its role players, who are typically on short contracts. Doing so becomes significantly harder when those role players are on six- and seven-year deals. There was no stretch provision at this point in history either. If a team wanted to clear cap space, trading contracts was the only way to do so.

And finally, there's the mental toll of all of this. Teams were aware of all these realities. They knew that clearing cap space would require convincing stars to take pay cuts, hoping other stars didn't extend their contracts, and spending years either dumping their bad contracts or waiting for them to expire. It was such a perilous and unpredictable track that no team truly attempted it until the 2000 Orlando Magic. Using the methods described above made it easier to aim lower. Getting and retain role players was so simple that aiming for stars just wasn't appealing. To an extent, this was by design. Most of the past methods of superteam formation had been eliminated by league-intervention.
Where did the superteams of the 1980s come from?

Superteams were plentiful in the 1980s, and they are plentiful now. They just happened to be built in entirely different ways. Broadly speaking, most of the best teams of that decade stacked the deck using methods that are now illegal. One such practice involves an owner so infamous he now has a rule named after him.

Ted Stepien had no interest in rebuilding when he took over the Cleveland Cavaliers. He wanted a playoff team immediately, so he traded all of his draft picks for veteran help. That isn't an exaggeration. The Cavaliers did not keep a single one of their first-round picks during Stepien's entire tenure. Another team had their pick every year from 1980-86, and each selection was in the top nine. In 1982, that pick went to the Lakers. It was No. 1 overall. They used it to select James Worthy. Nowadays, this would be impossible because of the aptly-named Stepien Rule. It prevents teams from trading first-round picks in consecutive years.

The Philadelphia 76ers were able to take advantage of a different sort of desperation. When the ABA and NBA merged, the then-New York Nets owed the Knicks a $4.8 million fee for entering their territory. This is a fairly standard expansion and relocation clause that still exists in many sports today. The problem was that the Nets couldn't afford it, so they sold Julius Erving to the 76ers in order to pay off the Knicks. Today, any new ownership group would be vetted. It would have to be financially stable enough to support the franchise, and even if it wasn't, the sale of players for cash is now illegal. That it wasn't then allowed the 76ers to steal a Hall of Famer.

And then we have the Boston Celtics. Rather than exploit the trade market, they turned to the NBA Draft. With the No. 6 pick in the 1978 draft, they took Larry Bird. The only problem? Bird hadn't entered the draft. He remained in school at Indiana State, but the Celtics were able to retain his rights and sign him a year later, after he graduated. As with practically every other rule we've discussed, this one was changed as well. Players cannot be drafted and still return to college anymore. It is the second rule mentioned in this story named after Bird.

fitzfarm
Posts: 25166
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9/12/2020  7:41 PM
TripleThreat wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-last-dance-how-nba-rules-prevented-michael-jordans-bulls-from-facing-superteams-in-the-1990s/

But Jordan reigned over the NBA for most of a decade and deprived many of that era's greatest players of championships in the process. So why didn't, say, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing and Reggie Miller team up to oppose him? It's simple: the rules didn't allow it. While free agents were free to do as they saw fit for most of Jordan's career, the rules in place at the time made it almost impossible for superstars to actually use free agency to build their own contenders. To understand why, we need to venture back several decades to the very origins of free agency.
A brief history of free agency

The free agency enjoyed by modern players is a relatively new phenomenon. In fact, even the limited movement of the 1990s was an enormous shift from the league's early history. The NBA didn't grant any sort of free agency until 1976, and it only did so to settle a 1970 lawsuit brought about by Oscar Robertson.

The free agency adopted then had little in common with modern free agency. Teams were granted the right of first refusal on any contract offered to their own players, essentially making every player whose contract expired at that point the equivalent of a modern restricted free agent. If a team chose to let a player walk, the original team was granted compensation. That compensation was either negotiated between the two teams as a sort of trade, or decided unilaterally by the commissioner if the two sides could not agree.

This all changed four years into Jordan's career, when the 1988 CBA finally granted players unrestricted free agency once they'd hit certain criteria. As big a win as this was for players leaguewide, it didn't lead to the immediate formation of superteams. In fact, superstars were largely hesitant to explore unrestricted free agency at first. From the onset of unrestricted free agency in 1988 and Jordan's second retirement in 1998, only two reigning All-NBA players changed teams through free agency.

One was a 34-year-old Dominique Wilkins, who had already been traded a few months earlier. The other was Shaquille O'Neal, whose hometown fans infamously told him they didn't want him back at the price he was demanding. A third, Juwan Howard, tried to leave the Washington Bullets for the Miami Heat, but failed because the league ruled that the contract was illegal and that Miami had miscalculated its cap space.

Imagine something like that happening today. Teams spend years planning to have cap space in a specific moment because free agents change teams so frequently. It may have only happened twice in that first decade, but in the summer of 2019 alone, four different All-NBA players changed teams in free agency. It easily could've been more. The modern salary cap is designed to encourage player movement. The one that existed during Jordan's peak, though, was still built around the only reality the league had known to that point: superstars staying put. As a result, it functionally bound the overwhelming majority of superstars to their original team for the duration of their primes.

So let's look at some of the rules that enforced that reality, and how they were changed immediately after Jordan's retirement in the 1999 CBA. In some cases, they made it significantly harder for teams to create cap space. In others, they made it significantly harder for teams to use it. After all, the NBA at that point gave incumbent teams one enormous advantage in retaining their own players.
Larry Bird rights

The NBA has always used some version of this rule to allow teams to go over the salary cap to retain their own free agents. Those rules just became more stringent with time. In its original state, the Larry Bird Exception applied to any player who had been under his previous contract for at least one year. There were no exceptions and no tiers. All Bird Rights were created equal. The 1999 CBA altered this system into the one we have today. The current model includes three tiers: Non-Bird Rights (which came after one year), Early-Bird Rights (which come after two) and full Bird Rights (which come after three). Full Bird Rights allow a team to re-sign its own free agents for up to the max. Non-Bird Rights and Early-Bird Rights circumstantially allow some wiggle room, but not nearly that much.

This rule came from the right place. No team should lose an icon because of cap concerns. But it was utterly abused in practice, as players managed to use the it to circumvent the cap entirely and earn contracts that just wouldn't be possible today. Having no time restraints on Bird Rights meant that free agents pretty routinely signed short-term deals with the unwritten understanding that in the near future, they would re-sign newer, bigger deals that made up for the money they lost.

Horace Grant was the most famous example. He signed a suspicious five-year deal with the Orlando Magic in 1994. That deal paid him under $2.8 million for the 1995-96 season, but included an opt-out in the summer of 1996. Grant took it, and the new deal Orlando gave him paid him a cool $14.8 million for the 1996-97 season. Under the current rules, Grant would have only Early Bird Rights, and with them could have made only around $5.3 million that season from Orlando. This tactic was hardly confined to players of Grant's caliber, though. Chris Dudley executed a version of this plan so egregious that the league publicly called it "a blatant and transparent attempt" to circumvent the cap and challenged it in court.

If you're wondering why superstars didn't take advantage of this loophole, the short answer is that they didn't reach free agency often enough to do so. We'll explain why down the line. For the most part, teams used this tactic to bring in valuable players that weren't quite superstars. After all, if the NBA was willing to go to court over Dudley, imagine how it would have reacted if a team had nabbed Karl Malone on this sort of deal.

Almost every team in the league was taking advantage of this loophole in some form at the time. Without a Mid-Level Exception in place, it was the only tool a capped out team could use to add talent, and conversely, it was the only way a player could land with a team that lacked cap space. These under-the-table deals were so tempting and so inflated a team's cap numbers that preserving space required far more willpower. That was especially true given the lack of consequences of spending at the time.
The luxury tax

The NBA did not adopt any sort of luxury tax until the 1999 CBA. Even then, the tax would only be paid if the league as a whole paid players over a certain amount, not just individuals teams. That was corrected in 2005, and the more punitive version currently in existence was ratified in 2011. This meant that, so long as a team operated within the rules of the cap in acquiring and signing players, they would not be punished for spending literally any amount of money.

So what did this mean in terms of roster construction? Essentially, it gave teams the freedom to spend with impunity. The small-market Indiana Pacers had the third-highest payroll in the NBA by the 1996-97 season. Why? Because they spent over $18.7 million -- just under 77 percent of the cap -- on four players at the same position. They spent more on the combination of Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, Rik Smits and Derek McKey, all big men, than either Toronto or Vancouver spent on their entire rosters. There just wasn't a reason not to. They happened to have those players. They all produced. There was no financial punishment for keeping them. So they kept them. On some level, this was happening practically everywhere. Opportunity cost leads to prudence that didn't exist in the 1990s.

The combination of limitless Bird Rights and no luxury tax practically begged teams to spend money retaining their own players. As such, as their cap sheets were occupied with players modern teams would have the restraint not to spend on. As meaningful as that combination was, though, it is dwarfed in importance by the single biggest driver of free-agent movement.
The max contract

Players were legally allowed to be paid any amount a team would willingly pay them until 1999, so long as that number fit either underneath the salary cap or the player's Bird Rights. There were no restrictions on amount (Michael Jordan made 123 percent of the salary cap for the 1997-98 season), or options (Chris Webber's 15-year rookie deal included a first-year opt-out), and while the 1995 CBA created a seven-year restriction on length, prior contracts greatly exceeded it (such as Magic Johnson's 25-year deal).

The 1999 CBA created the current three-tiered max system we have today. Players with between four and six years of experience can earn 25 percent of the cap in the first year of a new contract. Players with between seven and nine years of experience can earn 30 percent of it in the first year of a new contract. Players with 10 more years of experience can make 35 percent of it in their first seasons. Lengths have varied over the years, but currently, a team can get five years from his own team and four years from a new one.

Before these restrictions were in place, teams greatly exceeded them on both fronts. Let's start with salary. The highest first-year salary any current free agent can get is 35 percent of the salary cap. But according to Hoops Hype's salary database, between Jordan's first championship season (1990-91) and his last (1997-98), a staggering 26 players made salaries above 35 percent of the cap. That list includes plenty of players who might've liked a superstar teammate with which to battle Jordan: David Robinson (five times), Patrick Ewing (four times), Reggie Miller (twice), Gary Payton (twice) and Alonzo Mourning (twice) all make multiple appearances on that list.

In many cases, players took up comical percentages of the cap. Ewing routinely took up gargantuan amounts, as high as 76 percent of the cap in Jordan's final season, though he did grant the Knicks a bit of flexibility in 1996 by structuring his contract to include a lower cap number that summer. That was flexibility the Spurs, for instance, lacked. David Robinson cost San Antonio 46 percent of it in Jordan's final season.

These huge numbers didn't just make cap space harder to create, they made it harder to use. It's common sense. Modern free agents are hardly incentivized to remain in place. The ceiling on their max could rise if they gain supermax eligibility, but under no circumstances can that exceed 35 percent, and without it, they can only get one extra year on their contract and slightly higher annual raises to stay put. If LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh had all been allowed to negotiate for their market value in 2010, there is no way that the Heat would have been able to afford all three. But the max essentially took financial incentives off of the table. If all three could play together for virtually the same amount of money that they would make on their own, then suddenly playing together becomes far more appealing.

Older superstars did not have to make such sacrifices. If Ewing could make 76 percent of the cap from the Knicks, then he'd essentially have to take a 50 percent pay cut to join a new team even a modern max deal. Top players at that point hogged such a ridiculous percentage of a team's cap space, and could similarly demand that much from their own teams thanks to their Bird Rights, that building a superteam elsewhere would simply be financially impractical.

It wasn't just the sheer salary of these deals that made free-agent movement so difficult. It was their length. Ewing, for example, didn't reach free agency until 1996, 11 years after he was drafted. His rookie contract could have lasted anywhere from six to 10 years based on options. The length of those contracts incentivized early renegotiation because market conditions change during the life of those deals.

Nowadays, player contracts are organically so short and so often contain opt-outs that if a player is underpaid, he'll reach free agency soon enough to correct that. At that point? A player might be underpaid and still have six or seven years left on a deal. Making more money meant committing more years. Superstars routinely signed new deals years before their old ones would expire to ensure that they were properly paid.

Now think about those longer contracts in the context of an entire roster. When a team wants to sign multiple stars today, it simply jettisons its role players, who are typically on short contracts. Doing so becomes significantly harder when those role players are on six- and seven-year deals. There was no stretch provision at this point in history either. If a team wanted to clear cap space, trading contracts was the only way to do so.

And finally, there's the mental toll of all of this. Teams were aware of all these realities. They knew that clearing cap space would require convincing stars to take pay cuts, hoping other stars didn't extend their contracts, and spending years either dumping their bad contracts or waiting for them to expire. It was such a perilous and unpredictable track that no team truly attempted it until the 2000 Orlando Magic. Using the methods described above made it easier to aim lower. Getting and retain role players was so simple that aiming for stars just wasn't appealing. To an extent, this was by design. Most of the past methods of superteam formation had been eliminated by league-intervention.
Where did the superteams of the 1980s come from?

Superteams were plentiful in the 1980s, and they are plentiful now. They just happened to be built in entirely different ways. Broadly speaking, most of the best teams of that decade stacked the deck using methods that are now illegal. One such practice involves an owner so infamous he now has a rule named after him.

Ted Stepien had no interest in rebuilding when he took over the Cleveland Cavaliers. He wanted a playoff team immediately, so he traded all of his draft picks for veteran help. That isn't an exaggeration. The Cavaliers did not keep a single one of their first-round picks during Stepien's entire tenure. Another team had their pick every year from 1980-86, and each selection was in the top nine. In 1982, that pick went to the Lakers. It was No. 1 overall. They used it to select James Worthy. Nowadays, this would be impossible because of the aptly-named Stepien Rule. It prevents teams from trading first-round picks in consecutive years.

The Philadelphia 76ers were able to take advantage of a different sort of desperation. When the ABA and NBA merged, the then-New York Nets owed the Knicks a $4.8 million fee for entering their territory. This is a fairly standard expansion and relocation clause that still exists in many sports today. The problem was that the Nets couldn't afford it, so they sold Julius Erving to the 76ers in order to pay off the Knicks. Today, any new ownership group would be vetted. It would have to be financially stable enough to support the franchise, and even if it wasn't, the sale of players for cash is now illegal. That it wasn't then allowed the 76ers to steal a Hall of Famer.

And then we have the Boston Celtics. Rather than exploit the trade market, they turned to the NBA Draft. With the No. 6 pick in the 1978 draft, they took Larry Bird. The only problem? Bird hadn't entered the draft. He remained in school at Indiana State, but the Celtics were able to retain his rights and sign him a year later, after he graduated. As with practically every other rule we've discussed, this one was changed as well. Players cannot be drafted and still return to college anymore. It is the second rule mentioned in this story named after Bird.

Most of the super teams in the 80’s were built organically and with out a salary cap . Again triple I don’t understand why your defending guys who took the easy way out... Jordan just physically beat every superstar without teaming up. He is the ultimate star and no one comes close . Jordan never teamed up because he didn’t need to he knew he could beat any team on any night.

LeBron needed wade and bosh then Kyrie and love.

Durant needed a army of superstars to win.

I agree with the old way when you draft a player you should have the right to offer the most money and other teams shouldn’t come close... it should be a major sacrifice to leave the team that drafted you. But heck Kareem did it ... look salary is salary the stars know the most money to be made is in endorsements hence the reason Jordan and jeter are owners it wasn’t because of there Salary.

There is no need to defend super stars for taking the ***** way to a chip .... at the end of the day they just couldn’t win on there own they weren’t mentally capable to carry a team they didn’t have the balls to handle the pressure. They needed superstar help.

Jordan, Ewing,Barkley, payton, Malone didn’t need to team up with super teams to make it to the chip they met Jordan and that was it. They are warriors Leduche and cupcake couldn’t do what those players did they needed superstar help

fitzfarm
Posts: 25166
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Joined: 10/28/2010
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9/12/2020  7:43 PM
Then again most the the players of today couldn’t handle the physical aspect of the 80’s or 90’s when real defense roamed .... today’s players are soft in every way.
Durant just wants to chill lol

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