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Let's Discuss this Chris Paul Thing
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smackeddog
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9/9/2020  3:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/9/2020  3:24 PM
No thanks, I think Macri sums up the downsides:
AUTOADVERT
BigDaddyG
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9/9/2020  3:23 PM
knicks1248 wrote:His contract can be traded in the final yr to any contender,its not that bad

That contract is huge. Even if we tried to get rid of it as an expiring, there aren't many teams available with right pieces to make it work through the salary cap. If you do a straight up swap, you're looking at players like Tobias Harris and other trash. We're one of the few teams with the cap flexibility to make it work while achieving OKCs goal of saving money. From that standpoint, we should demand picks if we're going to take on aging PG with bad knees.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Allanfan20
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9/9/2020  3:25 PM
I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
wargames
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9/9/2020  3:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/9/2020  3:31 PM
Knicks need to trade Randle and DSJ for Conley and a pick swap (#27 for #23)

It makes sense. Utah needs bench scoring, and can save money, plus they get a slightly used DSJ.

Knicks get a starting caliber PG who can mentor the rookie PG and move up a bit in their draft.

Also Conley isn’t bad, the knicks might sign him to a decent 2 year deal, and let whatever rookie they draft at PG continue to learn from him. 3 years is usually around the time most PG’s who aren’t stars get it and improve.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
Knixkik
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9/9/2020  3:36 PM
smackeddog wrote:No thanks, I think Macri sums up the downsides:

I understand the downsides, but i have already disagreed with #1. Winning more games should not be viewed as a disadvantage. The goal should be to win as many games as possible. Even if you win 30-35 games, there's always franchise players or all-star players drafting later in the lottery. We just have to be resourceful in order to get better and not just rely on ping pong balls.
Allanfan20
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9/9/2020  3:37 PM
wargames wrote:Knicks need to trade Randle and DSJ for Conley and a pick swap (#27 for #23)

It makes sense. Utah needs bench scoring, and can save money, plus they get a slightly used DSJ.

Knicks get a starting caliber PG who can mentor the rookie PG and move up a bit in their draft.

Also Conley isn’t bad, the knicks might sign him to a decent 2 year deal, and let whatever rookie they draft at PG continue to learn from him. 3 years is usually around the time most PG’s who aren’t stars get it and improve.

You are assuming the Knicks are drafting a PG when they have many areas of need.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Knixkik
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9/9/2020  3:38 PM
wargames wrote:Knicks need to trade Randle and DSJ for Conley and a pick swap (#27 for #23)

It makes sense. Utah needs bench scoring, and can save money, plus they get a slightly used DSJ.

Knicks get a starting caliber PG who can mentor the rookie PG and move up a bit in their draft.

Also Conley isn’t bad, the knicks might sign him to a decent 2 year deal, and let whatever rookie they draft at PG continue to learn from him. 3 years is usually around the time most PG’s who aren’t stars get it and improve.

Yeah i personally prefer Conley, mainly because he's younger and his contract expires so we have options earlier. I'd love to find a PG in this draft (even at 27) and develop that player behind Conley for a couple of years.
fishmike
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9/9/2020  3:40 PM
wargames wrote:Knicks need to trade Randle and DSJ for Conley and a pick swap (#27 for #23)

It makes sense. Utah needs bench scoring, and can save money, plus they get a slightly used DSJ.

Knicks get a starting caliber PG who can mentor the rookie PG and move up a bit in their draft.

Also Conley isn’t bad, the knicks might sign him to a decent 2 year deal, and let whatever rookie they draft at PG continue to learn from him. 3 years is usually around the time most PG’s who aren’t stars get it and improve.

I dont hate that if we dont draft a PG. It makes us better and more balanced. Both Conley and CP3 have enormous wear and tear which isnt terrible. So long as we arent giving up picks if guys get hurt our draft improves. We'll see
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigDaddyG
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9/9/2020  3:41 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
knicks1248
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9/9/2020  3:50 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

ES
fwk00
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9/9/2020  4:03 PM
shinmen wrote:Giving assets for C Paul is a capital offense for an FO.
OKC got lucky that he stayed healthy. A 4 month break and no travel in the bubble was a god send for him.
OKC should compensate a team for taking Paul of their hands. If they don't, well keep him and pray all known deities he remains as healthy as he had.
If he doesn't and there is a great chance he suffers an unfortunate injury, you're stuck with a 40 millions for 2 years bench warmer.
No way the FO should make this kind of risky move without a compensation of some sort in case it goes sideways.

This is pretty much my observation as well.

Let's wipe off the cocaine from the mirror and do a mirror test.

Who the F is the market for CP? Ohh, and then let's narrow down that market to teams that want to absorb his contract for a gazillion draft picks.

Sweet baby Geezus I can't stop laughing.

AND, AND, the kicker is that he wants nothing to do with NY.

All the advocates of this deal talk about a mythical culture shift that every FO and coaching staff has been already advocating for at least a decade. So CP is going to sprinkle pixie dust on *whom* to make this magic? Thibs?

And speaking of Thibs. CP being what 35 surely must want to be traded to a team whose fanbase is rabid for wins, has a coach who will ask him to play like he's 25 again, and will become a media goat when his contract is a paralyzing albatross in a year or two.

So where were we?

Oh yeah, OKC wants somebody else to pay a fraction of a billion dollars for a 35 year old PG who wants to be a life coach for a PG drafted in a weak draft.

Oh yeah, AND K123456 wants to trade DSJ, Frankie, draft picks, and god-knows what else for this guy because he claims there's competition.

Hilarious.
Allanfan20
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9/9/2020  4:03 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

We’re saying “come on get serious dude” to you! Paul just lost in the first round playing out of his mind with good and talented players. He’s old with a ton of milage and injuries. You’re willing to give up a lot for him? I know I’m not.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
BigDaddyG
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9/9/2020  4:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/9/2020  4:18 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

If he's soooo good, why are they talking about moving him? Also, I hope we meet one day at a poker table.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fwk00
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9/9/2020  4:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/9/2020  4:52 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

We’re saying “come on get serious dude” to you! Paul just lost in the first round playing out of his mind with good and talented players. He’s old with a ton of milage and injuries. You’re willing to give up a lot for him? I know I’m not.

Bingo.

CP_Trois could not win with 3 months of rest, a doggedly talented team, and a bubble that kept the team off the streets and out of the party scene.

So we're going to pretend in a place like NYC, a guy whose commercial ubiquity causes nausea between time-outs, will fix decades of losing. Yeah, *that* will happen.

Knicks1248 needs to be featured on that PBS show that analyzes DNA - I think he's the long lost brother of Scott Layden. There's an old Robin Williams comedy skit about Americans overseas bartering with foreign merchants by insisting on raising the price the merchant wants for the Tourist trinket.

"No, you can't have Randle - its Ntilikina, the 8th pick, and 4 future #1s or NO DEAL!"
knicks1248
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9/9/2020  5:42 PM
fwk00 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

We’re saying “come on get serious dude” to you! Paul just lost in the first round playing out of his mind with good and talented players. He’s old with a ton of milage and injuries. You’re willing to give up a lot for him? I know I’m not.

Bingo.

CP_Trois could not win with 3 months of rest, a doggedly talented team, and a bubble that kept the team off the streets and out of the party scene.

So we're going to pretend in a place like NYC, a guy whose commercial ubiquity causes nausea between time-outs, will fix decades of losing. Yeah, *that* will happen.

Knicks1248 needs to be featured on that PBS show that analyzes DNA - I think he's the long lost brother of Scott Layden. There's an old Robin Williams comedy skit about Americans overseas bartering with foreign merchants by insisting on raising the price the merchant wants for the Tourist trinket.

"No, you can't have Randle - its Ntilikina, the 8th pick, and 4 future #1s or NO DEAL!"

SMH..they took Houston to 7 games

So everybody who lost in the 1st round is wash up, Gannis, Mithcell, lillard, Embiid, CJ.

They were playoff failures with westbrook and KD, westbrook and PG13 and Melo..

All i care about is getting rid of these half as guards on this roster because we are not going anywhere with them but the lottery.

ES
fwk00
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9/9/2020  5:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/9/2020  5:57 PM
smackeddog wrote:No thanks, I think Macri sums up the downsides:

No offense to Macri because he basically just solicited potential up and downsides but the very consideration of such a trade wholly distorts a bigger set of considerations.

First, I can't believe Thibs would even imagine losing games for a future draft - its not in his blood. CP3 or no CP3, the Knicks on the floor will not be on the floor long by trying to lose. Fans of the eternal optimism for a draft windfall should seek therapy sooner than later.

But let's assume the absurd. Thibs is here to waste a year to get to a rebuild year. How has that theory worked out recently. Thibs may as well not unpack his bags.

That brings us up to absurdity #2. Dolan hires an expensive team of development specialists so that the GM can trade away all those futures for a PG who *might* have 100 productive games left. I don't know about you but I'm not feeling like that's a career move either.

Which brings us to the FO discussion where somebody says, "Who needs cap space when you can pay CP3 until we all get tarred and feathered at the Garden!" Youtube video for that one must be monetized.

And, c'mon people, Allan Houston, Glen Rice, Vin Baker,..... ad nausea. Injured players never happen in NY, especially with high-priced, older, unmovable players. Who's afraid of tempting the gods *one more time*?
Allanfan20
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9/9/2020  6:44 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

We’re saying “come on get serious dude” to you! Paul just lost in the first round playing out of his mind with good and talented players. He’s old with a ton of milage and injuries. You’re willing to give up a lot for him? I know I’m not.

Bingo.

CP_Trois could not win with 3 months of rest, a doggedly talented team, and a bubble that kept the team off the streets and out of the party scene.

So we're going to pretend in a place like NYC, a guy whose commercial ubiquity causes nausea between time-outs, will fix decades of losing. Yeah, *that* will happen.

Knicks1248 needs to be featured on that PBS show that analyzes DNA - I think he's the long lost brother of Scott Layden. There's an old Robin Williams comedy skit about Americans overseas bartering with foreign merchants by insisting on raising the price the merchant wants for the Tourist trinket.

"No, you can't have Randle - its Ntilikina, the 8th pick, and 4 future #1s or NO DEAL!"

SMH..they took Houston to 7 games

So everybody who lost in the 1st round is wash up, Gannis, Mithcell, lillard, Embiid, CJ.

They were playoff failures with westbrook and KD, westbrook and PG13 and Melo..

All i care about is getting rid of these half as guards on this roster because we are not going anywhere with them but the lottery.

And if we give up everything for Chris Paul, we’ll be a lotto team once again. I wasn’t diminishing him saying he was out of the first round. I was saying that he’d be going to a worse situation (especially considering how much we’d have to give up for him) and a year older. Do you even think he’ll be happy to be a mentor?

It would be a terrible move unless it’s for cheap.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
EwingsGlass
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9/9/2020  8:04 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I’m staying away from Chris Paul now. If the Bucks becomes desperate for Paul, who probably already has a pretty high price tag, then we are going to get torn apart if we get involved. I can seriously see OKC trying to get a package the same way a Booker or Mitchel trade would be. Paul is a nice player to have but he is not taking us past the first round unless all of our young guys really jump... if we still even have them.

If it were something small like Randle and a protected first then go for it. It’s going to be way more though.


I doubt Paul even gets us into the first-round. We'd have to give Randle just to make the salary works. That leaves us with an even bigger hole at PF. Our cap is compromised even more, so who could we afford to pick up the slack? The front office already said, or at least was rumored to say, that they were trying to collect assets in a similar fashion to OKC. Unless OKC throws in a pick or two, a Paul trade would be counterproductive.

Take our best player, and here's a 1st round pick to go with him...Now where do I sign up for unemployment..

Cmon get serious dude..

Before the playoffs, I would totally expect a pick to take on Paul’s contract. Now, there are probably takers. I just don’t really think I am one of them. If I knew there were other moves we could make to make the roster competitive over Paul’s 2 years, I’d be more prone to do that. Just seems like a lot to forgo ‘21 free agency by himself.

You know I gonna spin wit it
ekstarks94
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9/9/2020  9:35 PM
TPercy wrote:A Paul for Randle deal would be so great. I’d even throw in 2nd rounders you to get it done. He’s production will definitely deteriorate and maybe he has injuries here and there but his leadership prescence and overall fit is much better than what Randle could over. FA for next two seasons isn’t looking great for us either

I would not attach any picks....with our luck(see McDyess) CP will come here and breakdown and everybody will be trying to send him to the glue factory...
knicks1248
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9/9/2020  9:48 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
TPercy wrote:A Paul for Randle deal would be so great. I’d even throw in 2nd rounders you to get it done. He’s production will definitely deteriorate and maybe he has injuries here and there but his leadership prescence and overall fit is much better than what Randle could over. FA for next two seasons isn’t looking great for us either

I would not attach any picks....with our luck(see McDyess) CP will come here and breakdown and everybody will be trying to send him to the glue factory...

ES
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