Knixkik wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

TheGame wrote:The team always looked better with Frank on the floor. The defense was better, and the ball moved more on offense. In the last six games, Frank was shooting around .444 from the field and about .350 from 3 pt. If he can maintain that and improve next season, he could have a big year.

If you watch both Dallas games, Frank was a pest to Luka Doncic and he even was able to effectively defend Porzingis one on one when he came out to guard him

I’m not expecting any flashy free agents but that’s fine. Draft a good shooter at 8 like Nesmith or Vassell and sign a guy like Bertans to play the 4

Next year:

PG: Frank
SG: Nesmith or Vassell
SF: RJ
PF: Bertans
C: Mitch

That’s a solid option for me. I like Nesmith or Vassell (Vassell is my #1) as a plug and play wing alongside Barrett. My top 2 FA options are VanVleet and Bertans. If we strike out on VanVleet but are fortunate enough to land Bertans, than i feel like knicks will need to bring in a stopgap PG starter like Augustin, Teague or trade for Schroder, which places Ntilikina as the backup but leaves the option for him to start if he comes into the season with an improved 3pt shot and more confidence on offense. I’m rooting for Frank, he just needs to make a big jump to be more than a solid backup.

I doubt Van Vleet comes here but Bertans is a possibility. If not Bertans, we could sign Melo to a one year deal. He’s still a competent stretch 4

Melo is in a good place for Melo. Let's leave sleeping dogs sleeping. There's nothing here for Melo.

Bertans is a possibility - true and sensible.

In terms of a more ideal roster:

Frankie/Payton/Harper

Bullock/RJ/Dotson

Thybulle/Iggy/Vassell

Morris/Portis/Harkless

MR/Horford/Wooten

Not sure if you’re roster is just in a random order, but Barrett will definitely start and be handed the keys to the offense to an extent. I love the Thybulle pickup if we ever had a shot but can’t start he and frank (and bring Barrett off the bench for that matter) because you have zero playmaking in the starting lineup. It would just be the Marcus Morris iso show which wouldn’t be good. But Barrett in place of Bullock and a better shooting PG (or Frank improving) would be fine.

Yeah, I'm just spit-balling. What is obvious is too many bodies after the draft. Many for fewer players trades must be made.

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Our "solution" has to be able to handle more than 20 minutes a game. Knicks still dont know if that issue has been resolved. Frank's had groin issues since before his first game as a Knick. Missed a lot of games. Was having them before the season ended, this year.

Those numbers mean nothing if Frank cant keep the D honest. That remains to be seen. Id like to see how both Frank and DSJr spent their off time. Too much time will have passed when these guys come back, to put much stock in their plus/minus pre-pandemic. In front of crowds.

Investing another second in DSJ is Failzdale all over again. Stop the madness.

Frankie and Payton are on their way. Resign Dotson.

Package DSJ for a doorstop.

Thats silly. DSJs trade value couldnt be lower. Was a big part of the trade. The very least you do ia see if he is really 100 pct. Which he hasnt been in mind or body since he was traded.
If Smith jr exceeds expectations, you keep him. If the Knicks believe they can get a good deal for Smith jr, but the team is set at PG, trade him.

Your predictions about Frank are right now wishful thinking to say the least. Like DSJr, we have to see if Frank can bring some consistency to his game, his offense. We still dont know if either can stay healthy.

Silly. There is no overnight cure for a player whose trade value is circling the toilet. Increasing his trade value would mean throwing good minutes after bad. So what you are saying is play DSJ at the expense of Frankie (who keeps earning his keep) and whoever makes the team as well as the chance of losing early games that may be critical in a potentially shortened season on a player who has done nothing to EARN that consideration. NOTHING.

Even keeping him is a basketball sin. He would be taking a roster spot on a team that can't afford F-ups.

DSJ was just a tease in that trade. *Before the trade* Dallas shopped him to a giant 'No Thanks' from every team including the Knicks.

DSJ's *value* is as fiscal trade ballast. There are teams who might/could use him. We aren't that. He's a relatively inexpensive body who is whole.

That said, an idiot at 100% is still an idiot.

My predictions about *any* 3 -5 year PG is the same - that's when the fun begins - they know the league, they are in the game, they know their limitations and strengths, and so on. We have two such candidates, both of whom have fine futures. Nobody in their right mind throws that away on a lottery ticket.

So - best case - we have both Frankie and Payton AND a draft pick PG that insulates us from the health issue.

I know you'tr basing your argument purely on emotion because you're calling out DSJ for being a tease, while not acknowledging that Frank has been hands down the biggest tease on the team since Frank was drafted. Longest tenured Knick, biggest tease.

DSJr's first game as a Knick (with a bad back) was better than any game Frank has played healthy. They've both teased ua, but Smith has shown in Dallas, and briefly in NY, that he has a higher ceiling on offense.

1ts 100 pct stupid to trade a player at rock bottom value. Its a long way from his days averaging 16pts as a starter. Frank has yet to show he can crack double digits. Thats not hate, its a fact.

Its something that needs to be sorted out, before proclaiming him King of all PGs. In the meantime, Smith jr and Frank battling for minutes is a good thing. Competition is a good thing.

Edit: We traded JR when he was at rock bottom, had to include Shumpert to make it work. But he was the most toxic player in the league at the time. Not the deal with Smith jr.

There is zero emotion involved. DSJ, in Dallas, while he was on top was trade bait that NOBODY wanted even at discount prices. NOBODY. The K[ra]P trade was high risk for both teams and the two name players both are a fail. Yes they both tease here and there but there's no long term upside to either player.

Frank was ALWAYS a project - not a tease. He was not drafted as the next LBJ, he was an 18/19 year old foreign player coming to NY. He has constantly gotten better, has a great attitude, and the fans love him.

DSJ is not Frankie's competition any more than Ellington is Dotson's competition. Those days are over. DSJ's competition is player 17 on the roster.

Again, the very pragmatic question is how do you improve DSJ's trade value without suffering unconscionable opportunity cost. The Knicks have A LOT of deserving roster candidates BEFORE the draft and free agency and the trade season. DSJ is low on that priority list and this year can't be a repeat of the last few.

Just guessing.

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Our "solution" has to be able to handle more than 20 minutes a game. Knicks still dont know if that issue has been resolved. Frank's had groin issues since before his first game as a Knick. Missed a lot of games. Was having them before the season ended, this year.

Those numbers mean nothing if Frank cant keep the D honest. That remains to be seen. Id like to see how both Frank and DSJr spent their off time. Too much time will have passed when these guys come back, to put much stock in their plus/minus pre-pandemic. In front of crowds.

Investing another second in DSJ is Failzdale all over again. Stop the madness.

Frankie and Payton are on their way. Resign Dotson.

Package DSJ for a doorstop.

Thats silly. DSJs trade value couldnt be lower. Was a big part of the trade. The very least you do ia see if he is really 100 pct. Which he hasnt been in mind or body since he was traded.
If Smith jr exceeds expectations, you keep him. If the Knicks believe they can get a good deal for Smith jr, but the team is set at PG, trade him.

Your predictions about Frank are right now wishful thinking to say the least. Like DSJr, we have to see if Frank can bring some consistency to his game, his offense. We still dont know if either can stay healthy.

Silly. There is no overnight cure for a player whose trade value is circling the toilet. Increasing his trade value would mean throwing good minutes after bad. So what you are saying is play DSJ at the expense of Frankie (who keeps earning his keep) and whoever makes the team as well as the chance of losing early games that may be critical in a potentially shortened season on a player who has done nothing to EARN that consideration. NOTHING.

Even keeping him is a basketball sin. He would be taking a roster spot on a team that can't afford F-ups.

DSJ was just a tease in that trade. *Before the trade* Dallas shopped him to a giant 'No Thanks' from every team including the Knicks.

DSJ's *value* is as fiscal trade ballast. There are teams who might/could use him. We aren't that. He's a relatively inexpensive body who is whole.

That said, an idiot at 100% is still an idiot.

My predictions about *any* 3 -5 year PG is the same - that's when the fun begins - they know the league, they are in the game, they know their limitations and strengths, and so on. We have two such candidates, both of whom have fine futures. Nobody in their right mind throws that away on a lottery ticket.

So - best case - we have both Frankie and Payton AND a draft pick PG that insulates us from the health issue.

I know you'tr basing your argument purely on emotion because you're calling out DSJ for being a tease, while not acknowledging that Frank has been hands down the biggest tease on the team since Frank was drafted. Longest tenured Knick, biggest tease.

DSJr's first game as a Knick (with a bad back) was better than any game Frank has played healthy. They've both teased ua, but Smith has shown in Dallas, and briefly in NY, that he has a higher ceiling on offense.

1ts 100 pct stupid to trade a player at rock bottom value. Its a long way from his days averaging 16pts as a starter. Frank has yet to show he can crack double digits. Thats not hate, its a fact.

Its something that needs to be sorted out, before proclaiming him King of all PGs. In the meantime, Smith jr and Frank battling for minutes is a good thing. Competition is a good thing.

Edit: We traded JR when he was at rock bottom, had to include Shumpert to make it work. But he was the most toxic player in the league at the time. Not the deal with Smith jr.

There is zero emotion involved. DSJ, in Dallas, while he was on top was trade bait that NOBODY wanted even at discount prices. NOBODY. The K[ra]P trade was high risk for both teams and the two name players both are a fail. Yes they both tease here and there but there's no long term upside to either player.

Frank was ALWAYS a project - not a tease. He was not drafted as the next LBJ, he was an 18/19 year old foreign player coming to NY. He has constantly gotten better, has a great attitude, and the fans love him.

DSJ is not Frankie's competition any more than Ellington is Dotson's competition. Those days are over. DSJ's competition is player 17 on the roster.

Again, the very pragmatic question is how do you improve DSJ's trade value without suffering unconscionable opportunity cost. The Knicks have A LOT of deserving roster candidates BEFORE the draft and free agency and the trade season. DSJ is low on that priority list and this year can't be a repeat of the last few.

Just guessing.

I beg to differ. I have yet to read an acknowledgement that Frank has any holes in his game 3 years into the league. No doubt Smith jr has not played close to as well as hoped. But lets not rewrite history here. Before he was traded, after his rookie season. Smith jr was projected to take his game to another level. Unfortunately something happened called.Luka Doncic.

Smith has been injured from one thing or another since he got to NY. On top of that his stepmother died, who Dennis was apparently very close to. Fair to say these are not ideal circumstances to evaluate a player.

DSJr, has plenty of time to get ready, for what likely will be his last chance in NY. Seeing how his time as a Knick has been challenging, to say the least. Id like to see Smith jr get the opportunity make a case for sticking around. Considering his trade value we have nothing to lose.

As for Frank, he isnt close to a finished product, ans should not be treated as one. I see no logic in penciling in him as the PG of the future. As I mentioned before, Frank has yet to show he can handle starter's minutes. Or make the most of them.

Knixkik wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

TheGame wrote:The team always looked better with Frank on the floor. The defense was better, and the ball moved more on offense. In the last six games, Frank was shooting around .444 from the field and about .350 from 3 pt. If he can maintain that and improve next season, he could have a big year.

If you watch both Dallas games, Frank was a pest to Luka Doncic and he even was able to effectively defend Porzingis one on one when he came out to guard him

I’m not expecting any flashy free agents but that’s fine. Draft a good shooter at 8 like Nesmith or Vassell and sign a guy like Bertans to play the 4

Next year:

PG: Frank
SG: Nesmith or Vassell
SF: RJ
PF: Bertans
C: Mitch

That’s a solid option for me. I like Nesmith or Vassell (Vassell is my #1) as a plug and play wing alongside Barrett. My top 2 FA options are VanVleet and Bertans. If we strike out on VanVleet but are fortunate enough to land Bertans, than i feel like knicks will need to bring in a stopgap PG starter like Augustin, Teague or trade for Schroder, which places Ntilikina as the backup but leaves the option for him to start if he comes into the season with an improved 3pt shot and more confidence on offense. I’m rooting for Frank, he just needs to make a big jump to be more than a solid backup.

I doubt Van Vleet comes here but Bertans is a possibility. If not Bertans, we could sign Melo to a one year deal. He’s still a competent stretch 4

Melo is in a good place for Melo. Let's leave sleeping dogs sleeping. There's nothing here for Melo.

Bertans is a possibility - true and sensible.

In terms of a more ideal roster:

Frankie/Payton/Harper

Bullock/RJ/Dotson

Thybulle/Iggy/Vassell

Morris/Portis/Harkless

MR/Horford/Wooten

Not sure if you’re roster is just in a random order, but Barrett will definitely start and be handed the keys to the offense to an extent. I love the Thybulle pickup if we ever had a shot but can’t start he and frank (and bring Barrett off the bench for that matter) because you have zero playmaking in the starting lineup. It would just be the Marcus Morris iso show which wouldn’t be good. But Barrett in place of Bullock and a better shooting PG (or Frank improving) would be fine.

Yeah, I'm just spit-balling. What is obvious is too many bodies after the draft. Many for fewer players trades must be made.

Yeah makes sense. I think we should try to consolidate pieces for better quality as well. My hope is we come out of this draft with at least 1 high level shooting wing (Vassell or Nesmith at 8 or Bane at 27) and a quality PG prospect. And in free agency I want to see us get 1 high level player who can shoot that can be considered part of the core going forward. Either VanVleet or Bertans at market value and we still have max cap space for future flexibility. Let’s say we draft Vassell. Our true core going forward is Barrett, Mitch, Vassell and either FVV or Bertans. Something like this keeps it simple. We are a better team with better fitting pieces but still have all of our picks and plenty of cap flexibility going forward.

C Robinson, Gibson, Giles (1 year deal)
PF Bertans, Randle, Wooten
SF Barrett, Knox, Brazdeikis
SG Vassell, Bullock, Quickley (38 pick)
PG Augustin (1 year deal), Ntilikina, Riller (27 pick)

This roster isn’t anything special but you have great shooting ,perfect pieces around Barrett, 4 long term starters , and a nice prospect pool off the bench.

Your guess is as good as mine. Going with this flow, I might prefer Avery Bradley over Augustin but that's just me nit-picking.

That would be fine. And this rumored deal of the Knicks maybe moving Randle to Utah to take on the final year of Conleys contract. That would be an awesome stopgap PG for the Knicks. Utah needs to save money and Conley was a Leon Rose client so it makes a lot of sense.

Perfect.

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:1ts 100 pct stupid to trade a player at rock bottom value.

There's the value of the roster spot and minutes.

Patrick Beverly was fighting for a roster spot on the Heat but there was no room because LBJ and Wade demanded that Big Z, Dampier, Juwan Howard and others get roster spots.

LBJ wanted Norris Cole because he was from Ohio. The guy Pat Riley was looking at but couldn't pick since LBJ wanted his guy? Jimmy Butler. The guy Spolestra wanted to trade for a 2nd rounder to get because he had local knowledge? Chandler Parsons. Chris Gatling gave Riley the heads up on a player that the Heat couldn't fit because LBJ wanted his veteran washed up buddies on the roster. The player? Kent Bazemore.

LeGM aka LeMandela is one of the dumbest guys to ever take over a team's personnel for basically no reason at all.

If the Knicks could trade Dennis Smith Jr right now for cash, they'd do it. If they could trade him for the player rights to a Euro Stash who will never make the league, they'd do it. The value of that roster spot and minutes are worth more.

The most value Dennis Smith has right now is salary filler for a potential trade. But he has no trade value and the Knicks have nothing to trade anyone where Smith would be filler. If DSJr wasn't on his rookie deal, he'd be gone already.

Lugentz Dort
Tacko Fall
Duncan Robinson
John Konchar
Chris Chiozza
Kendrick Nunn
Chris Boucher
Alex Caruso
Dorian Finney Smith

Obviously most UDFA don't make it, but there's the opportunity cost of a guy you know has no future with your team taking those minutes and that roster spot.

Not getting the list of exceptions, when I mentioned JR Smith.Overkill. As far as Norris Cole. He could hit the 3, find teammates, and had a 38 inch vertical st 6'2. Also played top notch D.

Thats why Riley made a 3 team trade on draft day. Cole's 3 pointers in game 4 changed the tide, and helped Miami get an important win on their way to their first title (with LeBron). Wasnt the same player after knee surgery.

However, no question that Frank had a much better offensive year. He also is a solid defender and has the potential to be an elite stopper. Also think that prior to Dot getting injured he showed to have potential to be a solid scorer and above average defender. Feel we should keep both and hope they continue to improve. Feel the same way about Smith Jr. and Payton. Just do not understand the rush to get rid of young players when it's not costing much to keep them and if they do not have much trade value. I think we keep all 4 unless we get better value for them.

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Our "solution" has to be able to handle more than 20 minutes a game. Knicks still dont know if that issue has been resolved. Frank's had groin issues since before his first game as a Knick. Missed a lot of games. Was having them before the season ended, this year.

Those numbers mean nothing if Frank cant keep the D honest. That remains to be seen. Id like to see how both Frank and DSJr spent their off time. Too much time will have passed when these guys come back, to put much stock in their plus/minus pre-pandemic. In front of crowds.

Investing another second in DSJ is Failzdale all over again. Stop the madness.

Frankie and Payton are on their way. Resign Dotson.

Package DSJ for a doorstop.

We really need to get rid of DSJ

Yeah, this is not a talent potential issue. The kid has the tools.

My observation is that he's an irreconcilable head case with the attention span of a gerbil.

Last year he came in claiming a summer of hard work and shot refinement that would wow us. -crickets-

I refuse to believe a word this kid says. And I firmly believe wasting a second of time in further "development", "rehabilitation", or any other such nonsense is anything less than grand theft from other Knicks players.

In GM terms, I would not mind seeing the Knicks move Randall, DSJ, and Knox to Philadelphia for Horford, Thybulle, and picks. Seems "fair" enough given the needs, money disparity, and whatnot. Horford could work well-enough here and Thybulle is a nice Knox replacement.

I doubt we can get anything back for DSJ. The word is out. He stinks.

Philc1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Our "solution" has to be able to handle more than 20 minutes a game. Knicks still dont know if that issue has been resolved. Frank's had groin issues since before his first game as a Knick. Missed a lot of games. Was having them before the season ended, this year.

Those numbers mean nothing if Frank cant keep the D honest. That remains to be seen. Id like to see how both Frank and DSJr spent their off time. Too much time will have passed when these guys come back, to put much stock in their plus/minus pre-pandemic. In front of crowds.

Investing another second in DSJ is Failzdale all over again. Stop the madness.

Frankie and Payton are on their way. Resign Dotson.

Package DSJ for a doorstop.

Thats silly. DSJs trade value couldnt be lower. Was a big part of the trade. The very least you do ia see if he is really 100 pct. Which he hasnt been in mind or body since he was traded.
If Smith jr exceeds expectations, you keep him. If the Knicks believe they can get a good deal for Smith jr, but the team is set at PG, trade him.

Your predictions about Frank are right now wishful thinking to say the least. Like DSJr, we have to see if Frank can bring some consistency to his game, his offense. We still dont know if either can stay healthy.

Silly. There is no overnight cure for a player whose trade value is circling the toilet. Increasing his trade value would mean throwing good minutes after bad. So what you are saying is play DSJ at the expense of Frankie (who keeps earning his keep) and whoever makes the team as well as the chance of losing early games that may be critical in a potentially shortened season on a player who has done nothing to EARN that consideration. NOTHING.

Even keeping him is a basketball sin. He would be taking a roster spot on a team that can't afford F-ups.

DSJ was just a tease in that trade. *Before the trade* Dallas shopped him to a giant 'No Thanks' from every team including the Knicks.

DSJ's *value* is as fiscal trade ballast. There are teams who might/could use him. We aren't that. He's a relatively inexpensive body who is whole.

That said, an idiot at 100% is still an idiot.

My predictions about *any* 3 -5 year PG is the same - that's when the fun begins - they know the league, they are in the game, they know their limitations and strengths, and so on. We have two such candidates, both of whom have fine futures. Nobody in their right mind throws that away on a lottery ticket.

So - best case - we have both Frankie and Payton AND a draft pick PG that insulates us from the health issue.

I know you'tr basing your argument purely on emotion because you're calling out DSJ for being a tease, while not acknowledging that Frank has been hands down the biggest tease on the team since Frank was drafted. Longest tenured Knick, biggest tease.

DSJr's first game as a Knick (with a bad back) was better than any game Frank has played healthy. They've both teased ua, but Smith has shown in Dallas, and briefly in NY, that he has a higher ceiling on offense.

1ts 100 pct stupid to trade a player at rock bottom value. Its a long way from his days averaging 16pts as a starter. Frank has yet to show he can crack double digits. Thats not hate, its a fact.

Its something that needs to be sorted out, before proclaiming him King of all PGs. In the meantime, Smith jr and Frank battling for minutes is a good thing. Competition is a good thing.

Edit: We traded JR when he was at rock bottom, had to include Shumpert to make it work. But he was the most toxic player in the league at the time. Not the deal with Smith jr.

I watched literally ever knick game last season. Maybe DSJ had some good games in 2018 when the Knicks were tanking and there was zero pressure but DSJ destroyed this team last year. No defense, turnovers up the @ss, couldn’t shoot - he was a worse version of Stephon Marbury

Has anyone that is vying for DSJR to not be traded for scraps disagreed with most of your statements?
However, do disagree that he "had some good games in 2018". Fact of the matter is had a very good first and second year as a rookie and second year guy at a very young age. He came over here after being told he was the future of a franchise but then pushed aside and had a very good second half with us and showed us what we are missing in terms of explosiveness at the PG position. Yet you ignore that(as some on here are)but rather focus on an injury plagued and tough 34 GAMES??

Look, no one is saying that he needs to fix a shot that is broken. Needs to improve on defense. And that he his play last year was definitely awful last year. We are just saying that if you take the preferential Frank treatment out of the equation, it is not wise to trade him at this low value and that the level of play and athleticism he has shown his entire life, should be a better indicator of his future potential.

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Our "solution" has to be able to handle more than 20 minutes a game. Knicks still dont know if that issue has been resolved. Frank's had groin issues since before his first game as a Knick. Missed a lot of games. Was having them before the season ended, this year.

Those numbers mean nothing if Frank cant keep the D honest. That remains to be seen. Id like to see how both Frank and DSJr spent their off time. Too much time will have passed when these guys come back, to put much stock in their plus/minus pre-pandemic. In front of crowds.

Investing another second in DSJ is Failzdale all over again. Stop the madness.

Frankie and Payton are on their way. Resign Dotson.

Package DSJ for a doorstop.

Thats silly. DSJs trade value couldnt be lower. Was a big part of the trade. The very least you do ia see if he is really 100 pct. Which he hasnt been in mind or body since he was traded.
If Smith jr exceeds expectations, you keep him. If the Knicks believe they can get a good deal for Smith jr, but the team is set at PG, trade him.

Your predictions about Frank are right now wishful thinking to say the least. Like DSJr, we have to see if Frank can bring some consistency to his game, his offense. We still dont know if either can stay healthy.

Silly. There is no overnight cure for a player whose trade value is circling the toilet. Increasing his trade value would mean throwing good minutes after bad. So what you are saying is play DSJ at the expense of Frankie (who keeps earning his keep) and whoever makes the team as well as the chance of losing early games that may be critical in a potentially shortened season on a player who has done nothing to EARN that consideration. NOTHING.

Even keeping him is a basketball sin. He would be taking a roster spot on a team that can't afford F-ups.

DSJ was just a tease in that trade. *Before the trade* Dallas shopped him to a giant 'No Thanks' from every team including the Knicks.

DSJ's *value* is as fiscal trade ballast. There are teams who might/could use him. We aren't that. He's a relatively inexpensive body who is whole.

That said, an idiot at 100% is still an idiot.

My predictions about *any* 3 -5 year PG is the same - that's when the fun begins - they know the league, they are in the game, they know their limitations and strengths, and so on. We have two such candidates, both of whom have fine futures. Nobody in their right mind throws that away on a lottery ticket.

So - best case - we have both Frankie and Payton AND a draft pick PG that insulates us from the health issue.

I know you'tr basing your argument purely on emotion because you're calling out DSJ for being a tease, while not acknowledging that Frank has been hands down the biggest tease on the team since Frank was drafted. Longest tenured Knick, biggest tease.

DSJr's first game as a Knick (with a bad back) was better than any game Frank has played healthy. They've both teased ua, but Smith has shown in Dallas, and briefly in NY, that he has a higher ceiling on offense.

1ts 100 pct stupid to trade a player at rock bottom value. Its a long way from his days averaging 16pts as a starter. Frank has yet to show he can crack double digits. Thats not hate, its a fact.

Its something that needs to be sorted out, before proclaiming him King of all PGs. In the meantime, Smith jr and Frank battling for minutes is a good thing. Competition is a good thing.

Edit: We traded JR when he was at rock bottom, had to include Shumpert to make it work. But he was the most toxic player in the league at the time. Not the deal with Smith jr.

I totally agree with this. Seems reasonable to expect the same treatment be extended to ALL Knicks youngsters?
Have mentioned several times before, for many including the ones you are debating with, it is less about Dennis Smith JR's actual potential, production or play. And more about how giving him a chance will affect with Frank's minutes and more importantly interference with what they are hoping and have been proclaiming Frank to be.
Fact is, if Smith came back and averaged 18/6 next year but took away minutes from Frank the bandwagon would still complain. Do feel that if the Knicks draft a PG, there will have to be changes made to the jam in PG's. Will be interesting to see what the new FO does.