BigDaddyG wrote:

Chandler wrote:
i think Thibs will give him a fair shot and maybe he tries to channel D.Rose and just tell DSJ to attack. not try to be a shooter, not try to be an electric passer. Drive, draw fouls

I also think Thibs won't waste time with him. Either DSJ plays the way Thibs wants or sayonara

If he does, how will he be able to fit RJ in. I'm not convinced RJ is a future star, but I do trust the ball in his hands more than I do DSJ at this point. Maybe give DSJ the ball in the second unit and take it from there?

that's the million dollar question. I would have him be a second unit guy which seems the most natural at the moment: hopes of instant offense, first guy off the bench. He needs to get his confidence back. what he does with his opportunity would dictate whether he ever starts or finishes a game. He's got to get back to attacking the rim, drawing fouls etc. Without that he honestly doesn't deserve a roster spot: his shooting and ball distribution are not NBA level. and he's a liability on D and attitude (thus far)

he seems like a poor fit with RJ on multiple levels. He might pair better with Dot or someone else who can shoot

2017-2018 Fox: 11.6ppg/4.4apg/2.8rpg, .412fg%, .307 3p%, .723 ft%, 2.4TO. (27.8mpg)

Judging by their rookie lines, you'd think DSJ was probably the more impactful player that year, and likewise, had the greater upside. Their careers have gone down different directions. DSJ is struggling for minutes and Fox is looking more and more like a star (21.1ppg, 6.8apg, 3.8rpg) - though interestingly, Fox's 3p% and ft% were actually a bit worse this past season than he was as a rookie.

If health were the big factor in DSJ's regression, and he's healthy now, there's real optimism for him returning to form. Reports in December said he had an oblique strain, similar symptomatically to Aaron Judge's... (of course, we learned in the spring that Judge had a broken rib and a partially collapsed lung)

If the cause is his body maturing and losing some of his athleticism, well his PG skills (particularly his shooting, reads, wiggle and passing accuracy) need to improve to compensate.

DSJ was not a good player this season, so he'll come into next season with some big question marks all around (physical, mental, skills).

Just for fun, here are RJ's rookie stats - you'd probably think DSJ by the numbers was more dominant (he's not a PG, so not really a fair comparison).
2019-2020 RJ: 14.3ppg/2.6apg/5.0rpg, .402fg%, .320 3p%, .614 ft%, 2.2TO. (30.4mpg)

fishmike wrote:I have never been a believer with his short arms, injuries and score only game. Knicks are hiring an army of developmental guys. Lets see if Smith at 23 years old makes the cut. He's not going to the G league so anything he can accomplish needs to happen here. What is Smith's track to earning minutes at PG for this team? I dont see it. Seems like Smith could be a great scoring sparkplug off the bench but literally nothing seems to go his way so who knows. I am not counting on him for anything but more of the same. I see at least quality starter upside with Knox, Frank, RJ and Mitch. I just dont see that with Smith. Isaiah Thomas is the only guy I can really compare Smith to who's had good success in the NBA. Not much of a shooter or passer but that was pretty short lived as well

2 things that I didn't like about DSJr was his Low Bball IQ and his tendency to sulk when he doesn't get his way. Didn't even notice the short arms. I am now adding that to my list. It's really hard to play in the NBA if you have T-Rex arms. There can only be one Kevin Willis.

Chandler wrote:
i think Thibs will give him a fair shot and maybe he tries to channel D.Rose and just tell DSJ to attack. not try to be a shooter, not try to be an electric passer. Drive, draw fouls

I also think Thibs won't waste time with him. Either DSJ plays the way Thibs wants or sayonara

Agree. If you look at the alternatives (Overpaying for a PG that belongs on a chip contending team (something we are not) or drafting one of these hype draft projects) why not keep Smith, Payton and Frank and see how they play under a new coach. Feel it's better that stretching for a draft PG. (We all know how hard is to go from NCAA to NBA as a PG let alone one's that are 19). Smith went through a tough time last year. Not 100%, death in family, competing for minutes (first time in career), new shot mechanics and oh year playing for a NY fan base that wants their chosen one to get all of the PG minutes. I know many want to dismiss what he did in Dallas as a 18 and 19 year old but that is tough to do coming into the NBA at that age and specially as a PG. Hopefully Thibs gets him back on track. If not, Frank would be fine as would Payton. We just need to keep adding talent.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Chandler wrote:
i think Thibs will give him a fair shot and maybe he tries to channel D.Rose and just tell DSJ to attack. not try to be a shooter, not try to be an electric passer. Drive, draw fouls

I also think Thibs won't waste time with him. Either DSJ plays the way Thibs wants or sayonara

Agree. If you look at the alternatives (Overpaying for a PG that belongs on a chip contending team (something we are not) or drafting one of these hype draft projects) why not keep Smith, Payton and Frank and see how they play under a new coach. Feel it's better that stretching for a draft PG. (We all know how hard is to go from NCAA to NBA as a PG let alone one's that are 19). Smith went through a tough time last year. Not 100%, death in family, competing for minutes (first time in career), new shot mechanics and oh year playing for a NY fan base that wants their chosen one to get all of the PG minutes. I know many want to dismiss what he did in Dallas as a 18 and 19 year old but that is tough to do coming into the NBA at that age and specially as a PG. Hopefully Thibs gets him back on track. If not, Frank would be fine as would Payton. We just need to keep adding talent.

to be fair I am pessimistic about the prospect but i can see DSJ as a poor man's D.Rose if he just attacks and we pound the boards. Hopefully build some confidence and then hit some other shots. when he was with the mavs i saw a few games and the game looked easy to him. He also has to accept and attack any role

our last CS was horrible with Frank DSJ and KK. accentuated their negatives and hid any strengths. We have to get their confidence up, and their roles simplified

Nalod wrote:Simple:

He is under contract for this year. He would be restricted if he is not extended. If he kills it, we pay or trade him. Both good.
If not, you waive him as trade value would be nil. I’m thinking at best with the health issues shown he is not starter material.
Be curious on a good team what he’d do. We are not so we can’t elevate his game.
What makes Frank valuable is he contributes in ways that can win you a game with defense, steals, playmaking if his shot is not droppping. Dennis has not shown us that yet.

Knicks need to trade DSJ and get him off this roster now. He’s a turnover factory, a horrible shooter (even by Knicks standards), doesn’t play any defense. The Mavs immediately started winning once they conned is into trading for him

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Smith has hit his floor. Anything we can get from him from here is a plus. with all I have read and fans bashing his unsuccessful tenure here he is “interesting”.
If he does well, we can trade for value. If not, we let him walk.
somtimes things don’t work out. It happens.

The problem with DSJ is he’s a losing player. Stick him in your rotation and you are going to lose and that’s even when he is getting stats

No shyt. Captain obvious statement.
The point is the kid has athletic ability that is NBA caliber and perhaps at still a young age he can swing his narrative and that obvious falling trajectory.
We have a new FO coming in with no ties. If he was to be cast off his agent would have sought his release. If we had though as you do we’d cut ties. If he had trade value we still might do that.
Since none of us really knows WtF this kid has held him back perhaps we might just assume. The whole point is there is lost opportunity to see how he does. If reports are accurate there are those who are paid professionals with actual cred who might think he is worth giving a shot. If its JBryant and Perrin raises my curiosity and hope. Would you rather be right or root for a better outcome?

What would you think about a trade based around Fultz and DSJ?

Nalod wrote:…

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Smith has hit his floor. Anything we can get from him from here is a plus. with all I have read and fans bashing his unsuccessful tenure here he is “interesting”.
If he does well, we can trade for value. If not, we let him walk.
somtimes things don’t work out. It happens.

The problem with DSJ is he’s a losing player. Stick him in your rotation and you are going to lose and that’s even when he is getting stats

No shyt. Captain obvious statement.
The point is the kid has athletic ability that is NBA caliber and perhaps at still a young age he can swing his narrative and that obvious falling trajectory.
We have a new FO coming in with no ties. If he was to be cast off his agent would have sought his release. If we had though as you do we’d cut ties. If he had trade value we still might do that.
Since none of us really knows WtF this kid has held him back perhaps we might just assume. The whole point is there is lost opportunity to see how he does. If reports are accurate there are those who are paid professionals with actual cred who might think he is worth giving a shot. If its JBryant and Perrin raises my curiosity and hope. Would you rather be right or root for a better outcome?

What athletic ability? He’s fast? All he can do is slash on offense and when he does that he’s out of control and turns the ball over. He doesn’t use his speed on the defensive end probably because he’s worried about getting injured and defense doesn’t fill box scores