fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I would do Randle and filler and cash for Paul. As long as no young talent or draft picks are included I'm good.

Said this before, Randle, DSJ and LAC pick for Paul.

Gallo will look for 1 last big Contract and I don't think it will be with OKC

OKC losing the rockets without westbrook should start the rebuild of the team, with the warriors back in the fold for the playoffs next year and suns and grizzlies behind, they should start with trading Paul and save money at the same time.

They get a younger PF in Randle and a reclamation point guard in DSJ plus a first round pick this year.

Not trading a first round pick when taking on that contract and giving an expiring. The Knicks should be the ones either getting a pick or a right to swap. Maybe I'd throw them a second rounder in a year we have multiples.

Agree...we are giving up a first for the right to pay CP 80 plus mill the nest 2 yrs....we should be getting a sweetener to take that deal..

We have so many young players- RJ, Frank, Mitch, Knox and our lottery pick, plus we have draft picks, in the next few years.

CP3 gives us a chance to help with the development of the players and balances our roster.

I was and am against a CP3 trade, but I think it's probably inevitable at this point- we likely can't add a PG for the next 2 seasons any other way (except DJ Augustin), we need rid of Randle, realistic 2021 FA class sucks worse than this one, Rose will likely want to make some sort of splash, and I suppose CP3 fits next to RJ too. Hope we don't get conned into giving up assets, we're doing OKC a bigger favor. Don't even want to give them Knox- just DSJr and Randle

dont be... unstopaball12 is right. We will have a roster loaded with young guys of varying skill and talent. A CP3 deal would let us better evaluate these guys, give us a floor general Thibs can lean on and make us better immediately.

What a CP3 trade looks like will tell us most of what we need to know about the front office. He's been very very good for OKC. CP3 is NOT washed up by any means. You have to treat him like an older player but 30+ mins over 70 games is a very good season. His #s and analytics show he very much still has "it"

Looks like a cap space and token asset type of trade. OKC can use Portis or Elf's no partial guarantees to chop what will be a massive luxury tax bill. We will surely have to give them something, maybe the LAC pick and one of the Dallas picks with heavy protection.

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I would do Randle and filler and cash for Paul. As long as no young talent or draft picks are included I'm good.

Said this before, Randle, DSJ and LAC pick for Paul.

Gallo will look for 1 last big Contract and I don't think it will be with OKC

OKC losing the rockets without westbrook should start the rebuild of the team, with the warriors back in the fold for the playoffs next year and suns and grizzlies behind, they should start with trading Paul and save money at the same time.

They get a younger PF in Randle and a reclamation point guard in DSJ plus a first round pick this year.

Not trading a first round pick when taking on that contract and giving an expiring. The Knicks should be the ones either getting a pick or a right to swap. Maybe I'd throw them a second rounder in a year we have multiples.

Agree...we are giving up a first for the right to pay CP 80 plus mill the nest 2 yrs....we should be getting a sweetener to take that deal..

We have so many young players- RJ, Frank, Mitch, Knox and our lottery pick, plus we have draft picks, in the next few years.

CP3 gives us a chance to help with the development of the players and balances our roster.

I was and am against a CP3 trade, but I think it's probably inevitable at this point- we likely can't add a PG for the next 2 seasons any other way (except DJ Augustin), we need rid of Randle, realistic 2021 FA class sucks worse than this one, Rose will likely want to make some sort of splash, and I suppose CP3 fits next to RJ too. Hope we don't get conned into giving up assets, we're doing OKC a bigger favor. Don't even want to give them Knox- just DSJr and Randle

Why do we need to trade RAndle?

I guess for you homers it's Because we didn't draft him.

Who on this roster is better than randle, I meann if the knicks trade for cp3, portis would be the contract to ship out.

You would rather have a solid vet like randle to play with CP

Do you even know what a homer is? calling us homers in this context makes no sense. Randle...does..not...fit on a starting roster with RJ and Mitch- there is no floor spacing for them to operate

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I would do Randle and filler and cash for Paul. As long as no young talent or draft picks are included I'm good.

Said this before, Randle, DSJ and LAC pick for Paul.

Gallo will look for 1 last big Contract and I don't think it will be with OKC

OKC losing the rockets without westbrook should start the rebuild of the team, with the warriors back in the fold for the playoffs next year and suns and grizzlies behind, they should start with trading Paul and save money at the same time.

They get a younger PF in Randle and a reclamation point guard in DSJ plus a first round pick this year.

Not trading a first round pick when taking on that contract and giving an expiring. The Knicks should be the ones either getting a pick or a right to swap. Maybe I'd throw them a second rounder in a year we have multiples.

Agree...we are giving up a first for the right to pay CP 80 plus mill the nest 2 yrs....we should be getting a sweetener to take that deal..

We have so many young players- RJ, Frank, Mitch, Knox and our lottery pick, plus we have draft picks, in the next few years.

CP3 gives us a chance to help with the development of the players and balances our roster.

I was and am against a CP3 trade, but I think it's probably inevitable at this point- we likely can't add a PG for the next 2 seasons any other way (except DJ Augustin), we need rid of Randle, realistic 2021 FA class sucks worse than this one, Rose will likely want to make some sort of splash, and I suppose CP3 fits next to RJ too. Hope we don't get conned into giving up assets, we're doing OKC a bigger favor. Don't even want to give them Knox- just DSJr and Randle

Why do we need to trade RAndle?

I guess for you homers it's Because we didn't draft him.

Who on this roster is better than randle, I meann if the knicks trade for cp3, portis would be the contract to ship out.

You would rather have a solid vet like randle to play with CP

Do you even know what a homer is? calling us homers in this context makes no sense. Randle...does..not...fit on a starting roster with RJ and Mitch- there is no floor spacing for them to operate

Just listen to yourself, you want to trade Rande ((20/10/3.5)because RJ and Mitch can't shoot, and shooting is the #1 area we lack in.

The reason i put you down has a homer, is no matter how flwaed a player the knicks drafted is, you will have all the patience in the world for them..

I watch all these guards(off the bench or starting)in the nba lighting it up for 30+ points like nothing, then see some knickfan peg frank as our starter, or even mitch who hasn't shown much.

I would think that you would be more interested in adding guys who can compliment Randle. which is easier, teaching Mitch how to shoot 3's, or going and getting a big who can?

The name of the game is PACE and SPACE, does RJ and Mitch provide that..

I'm not advocating trading them, I'm just saying, mitch and rj are building blocks, not players you build around

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
Just listen to yourself, you want to trade Rande ((20/10/3.5)because RJ and Mitch can't shoot, and shooting is the #1 area we lack in.

The reason i put you down has a homer, is no matter how flwaed a player the knicks drafted is, you will have all the patience in the world for them..

People want Randle traded because he plays like an ******* for the Knicks. Ball hog. Shitty shot selection. No effort on D. Poor decision making.

The litmus on a drafted player, barring injury and pandemic, is the middle of his third full season ( 2 full years plus the reach into the next All Star break) You were calling Frank N a bust at the end of his rookie year. You are right that he was a bust. All indications led that way. Other people were right in that full determination of that wouldn't happen until two and a half seasons. Rookie contracts for first rounders are structured around this reality ( two guaranteed years, two option years)

Because you were right once doesn't mean other people don't have point. Because other people are almost always right compared to you doesn't mean you are never going to have a valid point to make.

BigDaddyG wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
Just listen to yourself, you want to trade Rande ((20/10/3.5)because RJ and Mitch can't shoot, and shooting is the #1 area we lack in.

The reason i put you down has a homer, is no matter how flwaed a player the knicks drafted is, you will have all the patience in the world for them..

People want Randle traded because he plays like an ******* for the Knicks. Ball hog. Shitty shot selection. No effort on D. Poor decision making.

The litmus on a drafted player, barring injury and pandemic, is the middle of his third full season ( 2 full years plus the reach into the next All Star break) You were calling Frank N a bust at the end of his rookie year. You are right that he was a bust. All indications led that way. Other people were right in that full determination of that wouldn't happen until two and a half seasons. Rookie contracts for first rounders are structured around this reality ( two guaranteed years, two option years)

Because you were right once doesn't mean other people don't have point. Because other people are almost always right compared to you doesn't mean you are never going to have a valid point to make.

The thing with Randle is that Lakers fans were saying the same thing. His flaws were less magnified in New Orleans because he was a sixth man a who became starter and put up good numbers during an extended garbage time. Do I blame them for the signing? No, we made a gamble for a talented player on a short deal. Doesn't look like it's going to work out, but you never know. Just want people to keep this in mind when they lobby for signing Wood. Similar situation and maybe more of a contractual commitment. Is large contract enough to change his apparent character flaws? Are string of good games enough to make that determination?

D'oh. I don't think the logical decision to test the market for Randle has anything to do with draft-based attraction. It's age based. And cost based. And projection based. If you have a squad with FN, RB, KK, JR and MR and you find that there is not a lot of floor spacing, you have 5 options to move players.

FN is barely considered a lock for the starting role, so no one is really arguing about the possibility of replacing him in the lineup with a better shooting point guard. We've elaborated many proposals from Chris Paul and FVV to Haliburton or other draft picks. The general consensus to pass on LaMelo (when it seemed plausible) was that you can't add more non-shooters to that lineup.

RB is young and has a lot of upside potential on a rookie scale contract. He is young enough that his weaknesses are still considered "areas for growth" instead of pure weakness. His FT% and 3P% both need work. So does his defense. At this stage of this contract, I think most of us would like to give him the opportunity to develop. The building block vs build around distinction is interesting, I am thinking to surround RB with players that complement RB and MR.

KK (and/or any other SF) is another position where there are no clear starting player. In the same sense, most of us are looking to fill that SF position with a 3 pt specialist - even to the extent that it causes RB to slot to the SF to make room for a SG. You see the arguments for Hield in a trade or the Nesmith/Vassel debate through the draft.

JR. This is where we are thinking and enjoying discussion. JR is a really good player. He failed pretty spectacularly when they tried to make the offense run through him. I specifically argue that defenses were able to collapse on him too quickly without any shooters to spread the floor. Now, he is under contract for 2 more years. In terms of promoting a trade with Randle, its more because he appears to be a known quantity at a specific price that can't shoot 3s. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a place on the Knicks -- it means we generally believe he will struggle in a lineup with Barrett and Robinson. Trading Portis doesn't do much cause he isn't really worth his contract.

MR. I really like MR based on his quick bounce step. Dennis Rodman was the last player that seemed to have the same quick bounce. I think he is a truly special player (with some weaknesses) but I am willing to wait to see him grow a bit more. At 1.5mm per year, he is the best value on the entire team. A developing player like that, on a solid contract is worth SO much that his contract is nearly untouchable to me. I also see him working on his outside shot such that his weakness there may disappear soon.

for whatever dumb reason we have been putting those 2 (and KK) into positions in which they'll fail. We stress Franl's o more than his D. then we have him guard 2s and 3s where he loses his size advantage. Yes they have (big) flaws and they need to work on those, but they also have strengths and we need to play to their strength's more.

best recent example was isiah thomas (the midget one) with the Celts. Super flawed player who they had playing at MVP level hiding his weaknesses as best the could and he would punish the opponent on the other end.

Jmpasq wrote:

Chandler wrote:thank you for that Frank tape. though i have doubts about Thibs i am excited to see what he can do with Mitch and Frank

for whatever dumb reason we have been putting those 2 (and KK) into positions in which they'll fail. We stress Franl's o more than his D. then we have him guard 2s and 3s where he loses his size advantage. Yes they have (big) flaws and they need to work on those, but they also have strengths and we need to play to their strength's more.

best recent example was isiah thomas (the midget one) with the Celts. Super flawed player who they had playing at MVP level hiding his weaknesses as best the could and he would punish the opponent on the other end.

Put Frank on the Raptors and he is a good player. I have zero confidence that this franchise will make the right choice

Yes. Our issues are team balance and maturity and not lack of potential.

I proposed a Philly trade that could net us Matisse Thybulle at the cost of taking on Horford's contract. But, IMO, Thybulle is a young Kawhi Leonard.

I could live with something along the lines of

Smokes

RJ

Thybulle

Horford

MR/Wooten

Dotson, Gibson, Bullock, Payton, Portis, Ellington, Pinson, Brazdekis, and Harper, #8, 21, 27, 34, and 36 to keep or trade

Ellington, #21, and next year's Dallas pick might get you Lonzo Ball if that's what you're into.

Jmpasq wrote:

Chandler wrote:thank you for that Frank tape. though i have doubts about Thibs i am excited to see what he can do with Mitch and Frank

for whatever dumb reason we have been putting those 2 (and KK) into positions in which they'll fail. We stress Franl's o more than his D. then we have him guard 2s and 3s where he loses his size advantage. Yes they have (big) flaws and they need to work on those, but they also have strengths and we need to play to their strength's more.

best recent example was isiah thomas (the midget one) with the Celts. Super flawed player who they had playing at MVP level hiding his weaknesses as best the could and he would punish the opponent on the other end.

Put Frank on the Raptors and he is a good player. I have zero confidence that this franchise will make the right choice

on a lot of teams!!

i hope Thibs focuses on the simpler issue of whether the guy (and others) can contribute and using them to the best of their ability. AND focus less (ala Fizz and Perry and Mills) into thinking that every damn pick they somehow outsmarted everyone and got the drafts best guy.

tell franl to be a top 3 on ball on ball defender at the point. tell mitch to QB the d (i.e., talk more and loud). tell KK he needs to hit open shots -- his driving to the hoop will come when he hits the otuside shot more. tell RJ to play bully ball and improve his FTs which will open up so many things etc

Drucker mgmt method should be required reading for our team. Focus on strengths. Also delete stupid players (looking at you Randle and DSJ)

Chandler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

unstopaball12 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I would do Randle and filler and cash for Paul. As long as no young talent or draft picks are included I'm good.

Said this before, Randle, DSJ and LAC pick for Paul.

Gallo will look for 1 last big Contract and I don't think it will be with OKC

OKC losing the rockets without westbrook should start the rebuild of the team, with the warriors back in the fold for the playoffs next year and suns and grizzlies behind, they should start with trading Paul and save money at the same time.

They get a younger PF in Randle and a reclamation point guard in DSJ plus a first round pick this year.

Not trading a first round pick when taking on that contract and giving an expiring. The Knicks should be the ones either getting a pick or a right to swap. Maybe I'd throw them a second rounder in a year we have multiples.

Agree...we are giving up a first for the right to pay CP 80 plus mill the nest 2 yrs....we should be getting a sweetener to take that deal..

We have so many young players- RJ, Frank, Mitch, Knox and our lottery pick, plus we have draft picks, in the next few years.

CP3 gives us a chance to help with the development of the players and balances our roster.

I was and am against a CP3 trade, but I think it's probably inevitable at this point- we likely can't add a PG for the next 2 seasons any other way (except DJ Augustin), we need rid of Randle, realistic 2021 FA class sucks worse than this one, Rose will likely want to make some sort of splash, and I suppose CP3 fits next to RJ too. Hope we don't get conned into giving up assets, we're doing OKC a bigger favor. Don't even want to give them Knox- just DSJr and Randle

Why do we need to trade RAndle?

I guess for you homers it's Because we didn't draft him.

Who on this roster is better than randle, I meann if the knicks trade for cp3, portis would be the contract to ship out.

You would rather have a solid vet like randle to play with CP

bad fit with Mitch. Randle was a solid fit wit KP but doesnt work without a floor spacer next to him. Biggest issue with the Knicks is there is no directiomn, no overall roster vision. Just a bunch of players thrown together

i'm more critical. for all of randles talents (and he has them) he has low BB IQ, is not a winning player, and it's just a matter of time that the smart guys on the team get fed up with the spinovers, dribbling into traffic and no accountability. If a coach could simplify his game and get more effort on D (and if Randle would listen) I wouldn't mind keeping him, but i've seem too many of these guys to think thats a reasonable expectation

Yes, we need winning players here already, who knows what it takes to win.

With a bubble environment next year, older players will recover much faster without the travel.