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Knicks waive Alonzo Trier, claim Theo Pinson.
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KnickDanger
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6/27/2020  12:27 PM
As is being pointed out it's about the cap mostly. To some fans he is worth $5 million, to the FO his overall value (abilities and attitude included) vs the $5 mil plus the addition of a player you're more into...well there you have it. I would like to have seen someone with his ability develop more but ultimately that is mostly on him.
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wargames
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6/27/2020  12:54 PM
Sambakick wrote:Three reasons to like what the Knicks did today:

1. Trier's cap hold is gone. He would've been a RFA. Knicks cap room +2.7mil
2. Trier's me-first attitude (which kills locker room chemistry) is gone
3. Pinson is by all accounts a great chemistry guy

A reason not to like it

1. Pinson isn't good

For point 1) couldn’t we have renounced his rights? Is there a reason why taking on a smaller deal would be better than outright renouncing him?

If not I stand by my belief this is Rose helping CAA out.

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Sambakick
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6/27/2020  1:21 PM
wargames wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Three reasons to like what the Knicks did today:

1. Trier's cap hold is gone. He would've been a RFA. Knicks cap room +2.7mil
2. Trier's me-first attitude (which kills locker room chemistry) is gone
3. Pinson is by all accounts a great chemistry guy

A reason not to like it

1. Pinson isn't good

For point 1) couldn’t we have renounced his rights? Is there a reason why taking on a smaller deal would be better than outright renouncing him?

If not I stand by my belief this is Rose helping CAA out.

You're right we didn't have to take on Pinson. This was two separate transactions. Maybe they value Pinson's attitude and bench dancing.

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franco12
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6/29/2020  8:54 AM
I feel like this is a bad move on our part. Kid had talent. Sure, he had his shortcomings, but he was young and could have developed. I don't buy the cap logic- we've got other players to release like Bobby Portis that have bigger holds.
Knickfury11
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6/29/2020  9:03 AM
franco12 wrote:I feel like this is a bad move on our part. Kid had talent. Sure, he had his shortcomings, but he was young and could have developed. I don't buy the cap logic- we've got other players to release like Bobby Portis that have bigger holds.

My sentiments too. In my opinion we’ve replaced Zo & Kadeem with lesser talent. Kinda encouraged by what I’ve seen of Harper, but think he’s just too small for today’s NBA? Would love to see an underdog / Rocky Balboa type story with him tho...

knicks1248
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6/29/2020  9:13 AM

The elephant in the room, though, is Trier's representation. He signed with Klutch Sports in February. Knicks president of basketball operations Leon Rose comes from CAA, where Klutch CEO Rich Paul got his start in basketball. There has been something of a rivalry between the two ever since. While the Knicks wouldn't waive a player simply based on who represents him, that underlying tension could have played a role in this decision.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-waive-promising-guard-allonzo-trier-per-report-claim-former-net-theo-pinson-off-of-waivers/

As he reached 45 days in the NBA, the maximum allowed under two-way deals, Trier was averaging 11.3 points and hitting 39.1% of his 3-pointers.

That prompted the Knicks to hand Trier a new $6.9 million deal for two seasons, the most ever given to a player coming off a two-way contract.

ES
Knickfury11
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6/29/2020  9:16 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
The elephant in the room, though, is Trier's representation. He signed with Klutch Sports in February. Knicks president of basketball operations Leon Rose comes from CAA, where Klutch CEO Rich Paul got his start in basketball. There has been something of a rivalry between the two ever since. While the Knicks wouldn't waive a player simply based on who represents him, that underlying tension could have played a role in this decision.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/knicks-waive-promising-guard-allonzo-trier-per-report-claim-former-net-theo-pinson-off-of-waivers/

As he reached 45 days in the NBA, the maximum allowed under two-way deals, Trier was averaging 11.3 points and hitting 39.1% of his 3-pointers.

That prompted the Knicks to hand Trier a new $6.9 million deal for two seasons, the most ever given to a player coming off a two-way contract.

Ohhh, interesting insight. Politics man, politics...

jrodmc
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6/29/2020  9:17 AM
So how long before Pinson's waived?

I sure hope Frankie's signed with CAA...

Knickfury11
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6/29/2020  9:18 AM
jrodmc wrote:So how long before Pinson's waived?

I sure hope Frankie's signed with CAA...

Haha... here’s hoping...

martin
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6/29/2020  10:59 AM
franco12 wrote:I feel like this is a bad move on our part. Kid had talent. Sure, he had his shortcomings, but he was young and could have developed. I don't buy the cap logic- we've got other players to release like Bobby Portis that have bigger holds.

You are looking at the cap logic incorrectly. Trier is not worth the $4.5M cap hold, no team is going to sign him to that amount and the Knicks were not going to offer him that much either, so they would have released him regardless (now versus 3+ months from now, no difference). They know what he can do and don't need to look at him for another period of non games training. Trier is a minimum salary player who has bursts of shooting the ball, is 24, can't play defense and is selfish.

Trier already held the Knicks hostage with his first contract and got himself lottery pick money for 2 years guaranteed and then wasted the time by not developing enough to warrant playing time. $6.9M for 2 years, also just about equivalent to 3 years guaranteed for a 20th+ pick player.

His own teammates don't like him. The coaching staff doesn't like him. He was labeled selfish in college too. He has got some reality to stare at if he doesn't want to live his basketball life in China while averaging 35ppg and fitting in nicely to their defensive schemes.

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martin
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6/29/2020  11:51 AM
Also, Trier is a SG, same position as Barrett, and he is going to average 30+ minutes a game. Knicks got a low salary guy like Dot who they like better and can be resigned at minimum plus Bullock at $4M.

Knicks will probably draft a shooter with one of their picks.

Remind me again why it's a good idea to keep Trier with all of those other considerations?

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franco12
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6/29/2020  1:25 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I feel like this is a bad move on our part. Kid had talent. Sure, he had his shortcomings, but he was young and could have developed. I don't buy the cap logic- we've got other players to release like Bobby Portis that have bigger holds.

You are looking at the cap logic incorrectly. Trier is not worth the $4.5M cap hold, no team is going to sign him to that amount and the Knicks were not going to offer him that much either, so they would have released him regardless (now versus 3+ months from now, no difference). They know what he can do and don't need to look at him for another period of non games training. Trier is a minimum salary player who has bursts of shooting the ball, is 24, can't play defense and is selfish.

Trier already held the Knicks hostage with his first contract and got himself lottery pick money for 2 years guaranteed and then wasted the time by not developing enough to warrant playing time. $6.9M for 2 years, also just about equivalent to 3 years guaranteed for a 20th+ pick player.

His own teammates don't like him. The coaching staff doesn't like him. He was labeled selfish in college too. He has got some reality to stare at if he doesn't want to live his basketball life in China while averaging 35ppg and fitting in nicely to their defensive schemes.

when did Trier hold the knicks hostage? You mean, undrafted FA blew up and we had to sign him or lose him for nothing?

I don't recall reading that he held the knicks hostage or that other players didn't like him.

I do recall reading data that Payton tended to focus exclusively on passing the ball to randle vs others.

And as far as Trier being a SG and Barret a SG - I don't know we have that down pat yet. He may be a SF.

houston20
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6/29/2020  1:35 PM
jrodmc wrote:So how long before Pinson's waived?

I sure hope Frankie's signed with CAA...

Frank signed with same france agent Bouna Ndiaye that represents batum, fournier, and gobert. Frank did previously had caa but fired leon rose them take it for what its worth.
Frank Ntilikina’s Knicks surge gives ex-agent Leon Rose something to ponder

By Marc BermanMarch 11, 2020 | 4:12pm | Updated

MORE ON:
NEW YORK KNICKS

ATLANTA – It could have been perceived as a blessing or curse for Frank Ntilikina when Leon Rose took over for Steve Mills as Knicks team president.

Mills, who as the general manager drafted the French point guard with the No. 8 pick in 2017, had been Ntilikina’s staunchest supporter in the organization.

Rose was Ntilikina’s agent at the time of the draft and is familiar with his history. However, Ntilikina and Rose parted ways before this season, and Ntilikina replaced him with countryman Bouna Ndiaye. Sources said some within Creative Artists Agency were not thrilled at the time.

What to do with the 21-year-old Ntilikina is now one of Rose’s many decisions to make as he takes charge of the Knicks’ future. In training camp, Mills exercised the fourth-year option on Ntilikina’s rookie contract for 2020-21 at a cost of $6.1 million.

Rose is said to be in full evaluation mode, and Ntilikina’s recent surge of aggression will give Rose something to think about as he considers whether to put Ntilikina on the trading block this offseason. The organization still believes they need a starting point guard and is honing in on the position in the 2020 draft.

SEE ALSO

Knicks waste Frank Ntilikina's big night
Ntilikina said he has spoken to Rose since the hiring.

“He really is motivated about our future,’’ Ntilikina said. “We’ve had good conversations that we want to be better.”

On Tuesday in Washington, Ntilikina became the youngest Knick to post a 20-point, 10-assist game, blending a smooth 3-point shot with his newfound ability to get into the paint.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/11/frank-ntilikinas-knicks-surge-gives-ex-agent-leon-rose-something-to-ponder/

martin
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6/29/2020  3:55 PM
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I feel like this is a bad move on our part. Kid had talent. Sure, he had his shortcomings, but he was young and could have developed. I don't buy the cap logic- we've got other players to release like Bobby Portis that have bigger holds.

You are looking at the cap logic incorrectly. Trier is not worth the $4.5M cap hold, no team is going to sign him to that amount and the Knicks were not going to offer him that much either, so they would have released him regardless (now versus 3+ months from now, no difference). They know what he can do and don't need to look at him for another period of non games training. Trier is a minimum salary player who has bursts of shooting the ball, is 24, can't play defense and is selfish.

Trier already held the Knicks hostage with his first contract and got himself lottery pick money for 2 years guaranteed and then wasted the time by not developing enough to warrant playing time. $6.9M for 2 years, also just about equivalent to 3 years guaranteed for a 20th+ pick player.

His own teammates don't like him. The coaching staff doesn't like him. He was labeled selfish in college too. He has got some reality to stare at if he doesn't want to live his basketball life in China while averaging 35ppg and fitting in nicely to their defensive schemes.

when did Trier hold the knicks hostage? You mean, undrafted FA blew up and we had to sign him or lose him for nothing?

I don't recall reading that he held the knicks hostage or that other players didn't like him.

I do recall reading data that Payton tended to focus exclusively on passing the ball to randle vs others.

And as far as Trier being a SG and Barret a SG - I don't know we have that down pat yet. He may be a SF.

So obviously hostage is my own language, not sure why it would need to be used by the media to make it any more legit. And it's also obviously over the top, but I can't name one other player that got the contract he did going from undrafted to 2-way player to first round money in the short time he did. And kudos to Trier for using as much leverage as he can to get whatever type contract he could. It's too bad that he didn't use the time to become a better player.

As far as the rest, Barret being able to play some minutes at SF has nothing to do with the overall minutes the Knicks have to spread between RJ, Bullock, Dot, a possible draft signee (who would make pennies compared to the $4.5M) at the SG position and the fact that Trier is a poor defending, selfish SG who also shares the same position.

He's just not worth keeping around at this time.

I mean, what's Trier's upside and what has he shown since signing 2 years ago that suggests the Knicks would keep him at $4.5M? Has he done much different since his sophomore/junior years at Arizona?

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technomaster
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6/29/2020  11:40 PM
No need to hate on Pinson.

He's been a very productive player in the G-league. He tore things up in the G-league in 2018-2019 (20.7ppg, 38.5 3pt%, 84.4%, 6.1apg, 5.9rpg).
This season, it looks like toned down his game and played more like a solid complementary player (lower minutes, roughly 15ppg/5apg/7rpg).

He was a top-10 recruit in 2014 - touted as having elite athleticism and length (~6'6", 6'11" wingspan), but suffered a few injuries in college that kept him from declaring for the draft. The result is a 2017 NCAA champion, 4 year starter at UNC.

He's very much a Nets-style project - basically former top prospect with injury history in college that has untapped potential. He's also the type of long player that Knick fans on this board seem to fall in love with. Based on his play in the G-league, his high assist numbers indicate some versatility, ball handling, and passing skills.

https://gleague.nba.com/news/theo-pinson-named-nba-g-league-player-of-the-week/


Iso Zo has a particular set up skills that make him an impressive weapon. I'm not sure what the rules are for this season, but perhaps a team like the Lakers (that has strong veteran leadership) might be able to harness Trier in a productive way.

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Nalod
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6/30/2020  9:31 AM
Knicks have treated this kid very well and if not in future plans let him go sooner than later. Has He responded? Knicks have made it clear its time to move on..
franco12
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6/30/2020  9:39 AM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I feel like this is a bad move on our part. Kid had talent. Sure, he had his shortcomings, but he was young and could have developed. I don't buy the cap logic- we've got other players to release like Bobby Portis that have bigger holds.

You are looking at the cap logic incorrectly. Trier is not worth the $4.5M cap hold, no team is going to sign him to that amount and the Knicks were not going to offer him that much either, so they would have released him regardless (now versus 3+ months from now, no difference). They know what he can do and don't need to look at him for another period of non games training. Trier is a minimum salary player who has bursts of shooting the ball, is 24, can't play defense and is selfish.

Trier already held the Knicks hostage with his first contract and got himself lottery pick money for 2 years guaranteed and then wasted the time by not developing enough to warrant playing time. $6.9M for 2 years, also just about equivalent to 3 years guaranteed for a 20th+ pick player.

His own teammates don't like him. The coaching staff doesn't like him. He was labeled selfish in college too. He has got some reality to stare at if he doesn't want to live his basketball life in China while averaging 35ppg and fitting in nicely to their defensive schemes.

when did Trier hold the knicks hostage? You mean, undrafted FA blew up and we had to sign him or lose him for nothing?

I don't recall reading that he held the knicks hostage or that other players didn't like him.

I do recall reading data that Payton tended to focus exclusively on passing the ball to randle vs others.

And as far as Trier being a SG and Barret a SG - I don't know we have that down pat yet. He may be a SF.

So obviously hostage is my own language, not sure why it would need to be used by the media to make it any more legit. And it's also obviously over the top, but I can't name one other player that got the contract he did going from undrafted to 2-way player to first round money in the short time he did. And kudos to Trier for using as much leverage as he can to get whatever type contract he could. It's too bad that he didn't use the time to become a better player.

As far as the rest, Barret being able to play some minutes at SF has nothing to do with the overall minutes the Knicks have to spread between RJ, Bullock, Dot, a possible draft signee (who would make pennies compared to the $4.5M) at the SG position and the fact that Trier is a poor defending, selfish SG who also shares the same position.

He's just not worth keeping around at this time.

I mean, what's Trier's upside and what has he shown since signing 2 years ago that suggests the Knicks would keep him at $4.5M? Has he done much different since his sophomore/junior years at Arizona?

His upside is 10 points off the bench with .394 3pt shooting percentage. That is what he did last year.

Clearly, something changed this year. Same for Kevin Knox who took a giant step back this year.

Maybe there is a trend with us being unable to develop young players.

Same thing when we dumped Willy. I thought we had given up too early on a young player that showed promise. Clearly, he hasn't done anything in Charlotte.

Maybe Trier does nothing, bounces around, out of the league in a few.

Maybe he turns into Trevor Ariza and finds a role for the next 10-15 years.

As a Knick fan, I've been jaded by all the talent this team has dumped or not taken. I'd like to see us keep some players.

So Trier is a bad defender? Really, we should release 99% of the roster then.

Players didn't like him? If we're getting rid players that people don't like, maybe we should get rid of players that are too sensitive to other players that may be pricks - this is NYC, and if you're feelings are easily hurt, there is no way you're going to make it here.

I'm willing to give Rose the benefit of the doubt. But, if this turns into another cluster, then I'm with Briggs - until Dolan is seperated from the franchise, it's going to be the same thing, every year.

Knicks waive Alonzo Trier, claim Theo Pinson.

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