GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Leon took on some risk by walking away at the top of his game to come here. Can't say its not about money cuz it always is.
no guarantee it works. We on another adventure.

I will settle for the adventure of a playoff run.

The Nalod be right. It's always about the money. Even more so now.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:We had plenty of fresh Faces too.. y’all wanted Thibs before minny. Dude can coach.

Before Minny, sure. Until he was given the keys to the store, and still made the same mistakes. Spent little or, no time developing his bench. Look at the distribution of minutes between starters, and the bench. All those years in the league, Thibs didnt learn you dont win championships without a quality bench.

Rose wants to show fans that things have changed, he can start with new blood at HC. If not Miller, who earned a shot. Find a good asst, (or as Uptown suggested) and ex-pro who is good with Xa and Os. Not enough just to be an ex-pro.

Pass on Kidd. Was signed to NY, first thing he does is wrap his ride around a tree. Dont believe there is such a drought of good young coaches, coaches with new ideas.
That retreads are the only answer.

"He didnt develop a bench" I mean how do you quantify that as a knock?

Meanwhile you want to ride Miller's jock who's good stretch in the G league is enough for you to hand him to reigns to the franchise. Sorry but nothing about the logic impresses.

Everything about this thread is dopey... starting with "With Leon Rose. It’s just another form of front man for Dolan"

Not sure if you know this but Dolan owns the team so technically any hire is a front man. Is this a boy band? What Knick fans are hoping for from this front office are a few years of good basketball management. We have not had that. The rest (sexual harrassment, Oakley, etc, etc,) is just noise. The last management team phucking traded KP for poop, so lets start with not doing stuff like that and go from there.

jrodmc wrote:Here's a guy who can teach post-doctoral classes on cap space management and the business side of the NBA. He's represented everyone from Rick Brunson to LeQ. One of Phil's stated shortcomings was he couldn't return calls to other teams because he didn't know jack about either.

So Jimmie hires an incredible yet aged, sleepy basketball mind/legend, pays him a mindless fortune and that became a cluster.

Now we will see what happens when Jimmie's in the room with a driven, all-business guy who used to fleece his guitar-playing azz.

Interesting.

I would love to read a business book on Dolan’s ineptitude and what his many mistakes show from a ownership/management standpoint.

Like the consistent failure of valuing loyalty over business, being impressed by star names, not knowing a value of a asset.

Then the ugly reset, when most resets naturally are.

Leon might be the opposite of that. If he doesn’t hire Thibs (his boy from way back), Rose might have finally broken the cycle of Lolknicks failure and set us onto a new paradigm.

TripleThreat wrote:

The general CAA methodology, more Condon than Rose, is that it's worth it to overpay a person with specialized knowledge/training to do something for you that you can't reasonably do as well yourself.

It would have been interesting to read what Rose had thought of the Phil hire. But that's not going to happen now.

If he did say anything back then, all record of it has probably been erased.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:We had plenty of fresh Faces too.. y’all wanted Thibs before minny. Dude can coach.

Before Minny, sure. Until he was given the keys to the store, and still made the same mistakes. Spent little or, no time developing his bench. Look at the distribution of minutes between starters, and the bench. All those years in the league, Thibs didnt learn you dont win championships without a quality bench.

Rose wants to show fans that things have changed, he can start with new blood at HC. If not Miller, who earned a shot. Find a good asst, (or as Uptown suggested) and ex-pro who is good with Xa and Os. Not enough just to be an ex-pro.

Pass on Kidd. Was signed to NY, first thing he does is wrap his ride around a tree. Dont believe there is such a drought of good young coaches, coaches with new ideas.
That retreads are the only answer.

thats wildy one sided. You left out the winning, players getting better and other guys like Rose, Noah and Butler and Deng who were willing to lay in traffic for the guy.

"He didnt develop a bench" I mean how do you quantify that as a knock?

Meanwhile you want to ride Miller's jock who's good stretch in the G league is enough for you to hand him to reigns to the franchise. Sorry but nothing about the logic impresses.

Everything about this thread is dopey... starting with "With Leon Rose. It’s just another form of front man for Dolan"

Not sure if you know this but Dolan owns the team so technically any hire is a front man. Is this a boy band? What Knick fans are hoping for from this front office are a few years of good basketball management. We have not had that. The rest (sexual harrassment, Oakley, etc, etc,) is just noise. The last management team phucking traded KP for poop, so lets start with not doing stuff like that and go from there.

Reminds me of why knick fans fail b4 the game even starts. The amount of expectations are very high on players amd management. We used to give new guys a season to show something. Then it went to half the season. Now its starting b4 the season even begins. 🤣

This thread is purely for emotional entertainment since the players can't play and theres no sports on. If the season was going on, this energy and thread would be directed at the 1st round pick. Who knick fans will expect to solve world peace, like we always do. As soon as he miss a layup or 2, he's garbage.

Let me warn you guys now. The players and management will make mistakes. Its gonna happen. Just giving Briggs and others a heads up.

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:We had plenty of fresh Faces too.. y’all wanted Thibs before minny. Dude can coach.

Before Minny, sure. Until he was given the keys to the store, and still made the same mistakes. Spent little or, no time developing his bench. Look at the distribution of minutes between starters, and the bench. All those years in the league, Thibs didnt learn you dont win championships without a quality bench.

Rose wants to show fans that things have changed, he can start with new blood at HC. If not Miller, who earned a shot. Find a good asst, (or as Uptown suggested) and ex-pro who is good with Xa and Os. Not enough just to be an ex-pro.

Pass on Kidd. Was signed to NY, first thing he does is wrap his ride around a tree. Dont believe there is such a drought of good young coaches, coaches with new ideas.
That retreads are the only answer.

thats wildy one sided. You left out the winning, players getting better and other guys like Rose, Noah and Butler and Deng who were willing to lay in traffic for the guy.

"He didnt develop a bench" I mean how do you quantify that as a knock?

Meanwhile you want to ride Miller's jock who's good stretch in the G league is enough for you to hand him to reigns to the franchise. Sorry but nothing about the logic impresses.

Everything about this thread is dopey... starting with "With Leon Rose. It’s just another form of front man for Dolan"

Not sure if you know this but Dolan owns the team so technically any hire is a front man. Is this a boy band? What Knick fans are hoping for from this front office are a few years of good basketball management. We have not had that. The rest (sexual harrassment, Oakley, etc, etc,) is just noise. The last management team phucking traded KP for poop, so lets start with not doing stuff like that and go from there.

Reminds me of why knick fans fail b4 the game even starts. The amount of expectations are very high on players amd management. We used to give new guys a season to show something. Then it went to half the season. Now its starting b4 the season even begins. 🤣

This thread is purely for emotional entertainment since the players can't play and theres no sports on. If the season was going on, this energy and thread would be directed at the 1st round pick. Who knick fans will expect to solve world peace, like we always do. As soon as he miss a layup or 2, he's garbage.

Let me warn you guys now. The players and management will make mistakes. Its gonna happen. Just giving Briggs and others a heads up.

Reminds me why some fans like punishment. To the point of S&M. Warn fans what? That we might not understand why hiring the guy who told Dolan that bringing Mills back was a great idea? Anybody who had been whispering in Dolan's ear is a Moron, if Dolan took his advice.

Are you kidding me, there was more support for mills on this board then anywhere around the NBA. I had been trashing mills since his last stop in NY, and was criticize that I didn't know what I was talking about.

The Problem with mills wasn't that he was a bad guy, it was that he didn't know wtf he was doing and he was also dolans Pal.

Dolan Hires people through recommendations. He hired walsh Who was recommended By David Stern, Hired Phil who was recommended by some friend while at a Christmas party, and now we know why he rehired Mills.

I'm sure the mountain of coaching candidates are giving leon the same Info that Mills and perry were giving during their search.

Nalod wrote:Dolan brings back mills, as per Wes.
How do we then explain a few months later Dolan brings in Phil to take mills job?
We blaming Wes for that?
What if the reality is Dolan does not follow a plan and keeps changing it? Wes in his ear, Irving Azoff in his hear to hire Phil, Isiah in his ear, etc, etc, Panic moves.
1248, you don’t know what your talking about because you don’t know the cause, only the symptom. We all see dysfunction we just not in the room where it happens..........

Your judged on results

GustavBahler wrote:"Worlwide Wes" has apparently been in Dolan's ear for the better part of 15 years. Leon Rose decides on bringing in the guy who brought Mills back, when it looked like the Knicks were finally turning the corner. Pretty sure Rose is aware of this, and still gave him a promotion, so to speak. 15 years as Dolan's advisor, and this is the Knicks looking forward. GTFO.

Bring in Thibs, and thats some incestuous ****.

Briggs, looks like you may be on to something.

Any other guys we should look for that fall under the "incestuous ****" category? Just curious

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:"Worlwide Wes" has apparently been in Dolan's ear for the better part of 15 years. Leon Rose decides on bringing in the guy who brought Mills back, when it looked like the Knicks were finally turning the corner. Pretty sure Rose is aware of this, and still gave him a promotion, so to speak. 15 years as Dolan's advisor, and this is the Knicks looking forward. GTFO.

Bring in Thibs, and thats some incestuous ****.

Briggs, looks like you may be on to something.

you saying it over and over again doesnt make it anymore true. You even know Mike Miller's coaching record? Might want to check that out. He's a nice guy. You dont hand your franchise over because guys are nice. I mean he rode Elfrid to Julius to a better winning % than Fizdale and he's great with Gleague talent. Wild stuff.

Any other guys we should look for that fall under the "incestuous ****" category? Just curious

It is certainly wild stuff. Look at the post where Nalod and I discussed Thibs. One sentence saying Miller deserved a shot. The rest about other alternatives. Most of it about other potential coaches.
This post isnt about Miller at all. You're the one obsessing about Miller.

If Miller had taken the job day one, with the start he had, we would have been on track to sneak into the playoffs. If we didnt trade our best player. With zero stars. Id rather give Miller a shot, than yet another one for a coach eho has had more than enough opportunities in this league. As I said before, there are plenty of good, young, coaches out there, ready for an opportunity. If not Miller.

GustavBahler wrote:I understand Rose's motivation has changed. Hiring the guy who said that firing a GM off a 54 win season and replacing him an exec who was not a bball guy, who played a part in some ofthe darkest days in team history was a good idea, with all the other candidates out there. Someone who couldnt find a job in the NBA, since he left the Knicks. Makes me question his sanity. Mills was supposed to use his connections to sign stars. Was the opposite. No we're hearing the same about Wes. I dont mind an"old boys club" on the Knicks if they still have game, so to speak. Dont see that from Anderson or Thibs.

Steve Mills became the GM by default. Phil Jackson had no experience running a team as such and other teams simply began to avoid him and just called Mills directly ( Mills is not a trained GM but at least he had some basic understanding of the CBA and salary cap and such)

He was given a title for a job he was doing because no one else was there to do it. That's going to rest on Dolan. I can't really blame Mills for simply doing what his owner wanted him to do. That's part of his job.

Dolan hired a guy (Jackson) who could not do the job of a GM but did not formally hire a GM to work under him.

What do you want Mills to do? If Dolan fires someone, Mills has no choice but to support the decision in public. What else can he say? Rose has no choice but to support Dolan now, what else is he going to say?

If Mills is not in the best position to help this team, that's on Dolan. You going to blame some waiter in a restaurant for getting everything wrong if he was trained only to do the accounts/books and the owner said now you have to go handle tables? I really can't dig on a guy for simply trying to keep his job.

Do I think Mills did a good job as GM? No. But how many decisions were his and how many were Dolans?

If Mills had pure autonomy, that's a different story. If Bill Parcells got criticized for something, then you can say it's all on him, because Parcells got full say on all his teams for everything. Owners just left him alone. Mills is just a working stiff in a better suit.

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I understand Rose's motivation has changed. Hiring the guy who said that firing a GM off a 54 win season and replacing him an exec who was not a bball guy, who played a part in some ofthe darkest days in team history was a good idea, with all the other candidates out there. Someone who couldnt find a job in the NBA, since he left the Knicks. Makes me question his sanity. Mills was supposed to use his connections to sign stars. Was the opposite. No we're hearing the same about Wes. I dont mind an"old boys club" on the Knicks if they still have game, so to speak. Dont see that from Anderson or Thibs.

Steve Mills became the GM by default. Phil Jackson had no experience running a team as such and other teams simply began to avoid him and just called Mills directly ( Mills is not a trained GM but at least he had some basic understanding of the CBA and salary cap and such)

He was given a title for a job he was doing because no one else was there to do it. That's going to rest on Dolan. I can't really blame Mills for simply doing what his owner wanted him to do. That's part of his job.

Dolan hired a guy (Jackson) who could not do the job of a GM but did not formally hire a GM to work under him.

What do you want Mills to do? If Dolan fires someone, Mills has no choice but to support the decision in public. What else can he say? Rose has no choice but to support Dolan now, what else is he going to say?

If Mills is not in the best position to help this team, that's on Dolan. You going to blame some waiter in a restaurant for getting everything wrong if he was trained only to do the accounts/books and the owner said now you have to go handle tables? I really can't dig on a guy for simply trying to keep his job.

Do I think Mills did a good job as GM? No. But how many decisions were his and how many were Dolans?

If Mills had pure autonomy, that's a different story. If Bill Parcells got criticized for something, then you can say it's all on him, because Parcells got full say on all his teams for everything. Owners just left him alone. Mills is just a working stiff in a better suit.

Triple gives you a similar angle to one I have long promoted on the UK. He comes at this from a different place and maybe more patience.
I'd like to hear Triples take on Walsh whom many love to lay blame on but I submit he too was following the owners desire. Not to say he did well, but you got a job to do, you do it.