Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Derek Harper
Buck Williams
Marvin Webster
Truck Robinson
Terry Cummings
Glen Rice
Vin Baker
Mutumbo

Honorable Mention: Herb Williams

Spent vs. disappointed?

Rice was here just one season. Gave us 75 games. He had been in decline after a bad injury. He was cap fodder for 38 year old Ewing trade.
Harper, williams, cummings, and mutumbo at their advanced ages was "spent" but what was the expectation? What did knicks pay for and did they get moneys worth?
Vin Baker was poster player for "Spent". 4 time all star was a mess by age 30 and the object of Dolans better side empathetic to his drinking issues and tried to resuscitate his career at age 32.

I looked up Mutumbo who I was a 10 time all star! His last at age 35. His next season in NJ was just 23 games, he played the next year with us for just one season logging 65 games and was by then playing just 23 min a game.

So were they spent or not? The thread is about how we end up with old stars that were spent. Nobody was asking about return on the dollar or expectations. We got a lot of old stars and they were over with when they played here. Chris Dudley, David Wingate, players of that level don't qualify as stars, so no expectation about being spent.

That's why I didn't mention LJ. He wasn't Grandmama, but he played a key role in the last Knick team to get to the Finals. That doesn't qualify as spent in my book of basketball definitions.

CP3 could come here and maybe kick azz for a year or two and then fade away. Not spent.
Or he could come here and exist in a suit for the better part of two years and then be gone. Spent.

Jmpasq wrote:

Knickfury11 wrote:https://www.talkbasket.net/83887-knicks-have-a-knack-for-getting-star-players-past-their-prime

Came across this article and I couldn’t help but imagine what would have happened if we could have got several of the players mentioned at their peak. Kidd, Baron, Bibby, McGrady...

Is it just fate for us to land CP3?

Is Chris Paul worth the money for Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett. These 2 need a real playmaker

This is exactly what I’ve been deliberating on. If CP3 could have the kinda year he’s had in OKC he would elevate the games of Mitch & RJ immensely. PnR, floor spacing, 36.2 3pt, decent D. I also believe Frankie and others would benefit from playing alongside a future hall of famer. No question.

Now the down side. 35yrs. Long repetitive injury history. Not the most popular cat in the league. Albatross of a contract with a player option. Has to want to play for a contender at this stage of his career?

I don’t class CP3 as spent. But in a state of decline. Father time catches us all.

Do I personally think it’s worth it? Yep with the caveat the compensation would have to be generous.

Nalod wrote:I like the idea of a HOF playmaker on the team to elevate the kids.
one can also say Rubio would add value. Not HOF of course.
Define "the caveat the compensation would have to be generous".
Its relevent to the long and short term.
Because we always have to discuss Frank......Its my opinion in a stable environment he should continue to shoot better and understand his role better. It thought under Miller he made progress. While inconsistant it was apparent as the season went on in 10 game increments.
year by year stat lines don't tell the full story but its all we got.
Same for Knox. I know what I read, and I know what I saw.

Compensation would have to include future draft picks and cap relief. How could this be accomplished? I’ll be honest...I’m not sure!

Agree about Miller. I’m rooting for Frankie to keep improving because I believe that once his offence is equal to his defensive qualities we got an all star here. Surrounded by young core with promising pieces Mitch & RJ.

Rubio is a bum. But like you say other options could provide value ( Vanvleet anyone? )

True stats don’t measure all facets / intangibles of the game, but like you say it’s all we got.

Nalod wrote:

Knickfury11 wrote:

Nalod wrote:I like the idea of a HOF playmaker on the team to elevate the kids.
one can also say Rubio would add value. Not HOF of course.
Define "the caveat the compensation would have to be generous".
Its relevent to the long and short term.
Because we always have to discuss Frank......Its my opinion in a stable environment he should continue to shoot better and understand his role better. It thought under Miller he made progress. While inconsistant it was apparent as the season went on in 10 game increments.
year by year stat lines don't tell the full story but its all we got.
Same for Knox. I know what I read, and I know what I saw.

Compensation would have to include future draft picks and cap relief. How could this be accomplished? I’ll be honest...I’m not sure!

Agree about Miller. I’m rooting for Frankie to keep improving because I believe that once his offence is equal to his defensive qualities we got an all star here. Surrounded by young core with promising pieces Mitch & RJ.

Rubio is a bum. But like you say other options could provide value ( Vanvleet anyone? )

True stats don’t measure all facets / intangibles of the game, but like you say it’s all we got.

Ok, Im cool with CP3 as long as WE either get him for free or compensated. No outgoing assets of significance.
Not high on VanVleet. Sure he is an improvement but to me he thrives because of the envorinment he is in and the role he plays. Thats not a bad thing BTW.
I have Frank "hope" upside as Olidipo like. Im biased fan.

How's this......

Mitch/Wiseman
Wiseman/Knox
RJ/Knox/
Frank/DSJ
CP3./Payton

Thats just 10 players and obviously my list won't happen. But, that that 9. Play that, shut the door and let it run. We win 30 games Maybe. I always say the last 20 games of a season tell a bigger story then the first 20. Let that team just be and play thru the pain. We still have picks and Dallas's two coming up. Trades will occur, I get it. But time to build a core and let them build on it.

Like it ( apart from DSJ & Payton, but what can you do...) Agree the time for establishing a core is now.

jrodmc wrote:

Knickfury11 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:I’m surprised nobody mention Larry Johnson. He played a few years with us and had some great moments but he wasn’t half the player he used to be by the time he arrived.

True, but unlike most of the players on this list, he figured out a way to make himself useful- was pivotal in terms of leadership in the 1999 run.

agreed, you can say the same thing about Harper and jason kidd

Loved LJ during that time, came up big for us, played with a lot of heart. But his explosive “Granma” glory days were distant memories.

Brief stint I know how about Keith Van Horn? Spent vs sucked anyway...

KVH was a stiff with the Nets, he was a stiff here. Not spent. Another stupid Layden Utah move.

A Spree/Marbles backcourt would have been interesting, if nothing else, would have created even more backpage fodder for Berman...

KVH, from California went to college in Utah. Bad hair and never lived up to expectatoins but he was better then Tim Thomas!!! Thats who he was traded for. No, he was not the answer, but he was not the problem.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knickfury11 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:I’m surprised nobody mention Larry Johnson. He played a few years with us and had some great moments but he wasn’t half the player he used to be by the time he arrived.

True, but unlike most of the players on this list, he figured out a way to make himself useful- was pivotal in terms of leadership in the 1999 run.

agreed, you can say the same thing about Harper and jason kidd

Loved LJ during that time, came up big for us, played with a lot of heart. But his explosive “Granma” glory days were distant memories.

Brief stint I know how about Keith Van Horn? Spent vs sucked anyway...

KVH was a stiff with the Nets, he was a stiff here. Not spent. Another stupid Layden Utah move.

A Spree/Marbles backcourt would have been interesting, if nothing else, would have created even more backpage fodder for Berman...

KVH, from California went to college in Utah. Bad hair and never lived up to expectatoins but he was better then Tim Thomas!!! Thats who he was traded for. No, he was not the answer, but he was not the problem.

It's easy to see that KVH was good when we compare him to the average NBA starter. The problem is that he got these ridiculous Bird comparisons coming out of college and he was drafted right after Duncan. There may have even been talk that he should go ahead of Duncan. I agree the Tim Thomas trad was bad. The rationale was that Tim was a better athlete. But look at the "athletic" stats like steals, blocks and rebounds. KVH was clearly better at those stats as well.

Not really concerned which lower level player was better.