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Trade packages to land Knicks a star
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Knickfury11
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4/24/2020  7:38 AM
Griffin / Aldridge / Derozen instant passes. Only one for me is Beal (27yrs ) but that means you give up RJ.
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NotInMyHouse
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4/24/2020  7:40 AM
TheGame wrote:These are just five very bad trades. None of them make sense. Rozier is a so-so pg and we likely will draft a pg this year. Paul’s 44mil next summer is a non-starter as it would hurt our chances in 2021 free agent pool. Griffin stays hurt so why trade for him, and IMO Mitch is a better center prospect than Drummond at a fraction of the price for the next two years. I would pass on all these deals. I would focus on getting a mid-level guy that perfectly fits what we need, such as a defensive SF that can also score. Rose should have patience and let these kids continue to grow.

Pretty much agree here. We have some nice assets, let's not blow it (again).

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” George R.R. Martin
Allanfan20
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4/24/2020  8:06 AM
Knickfury11 wrote:Griffin / Aldridge / Derozen instant passes. Only one for me is Beal (27yrs ) but that means you give up RJ.

By trading RJ for Beal, you are saying you are trying to win at least close to now. That means we would have to give up everything for win now players and pray to sign Anthony Davis. I will go on and say that I don’t think that’s likely possible. We don’t have enough assets for that, especially considering it would take a lot more than RJ to get Beal.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Knixkik
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4/24/2020  8:49 AM
I'll cash in the draft picks, but would prefer not to move RJ or Mitch obviously. I'm fine not getting a true superstar, but adding a high level player with the picks. Maybe Fox or LaVine. Embiid probably requires Mitch, which is fine since they couldn't play together anyways. I would love to add an established star 26 or under to pair with Barrett and Mitch though. I'll grab Chris Paul this summer providing it doesn't cost any first rounders if he counts.
jrodmc
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4/24/2020  9:38 AM
Knickfury11 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Get Chris Paul and don't trade Frankie. I'm buying that one, all day, everyday. Beats spending cap money on 15 third level forwards.
Zach Lavine for essentially Knox and a 1st rounder? I'm buying that one too. Especially if it involves ending the DSJr sad saga here.

Haven't watched much of Terry Rozier, so no comment.

Love, Drummond, Griffin? Pass

Looking at Lavine - offensively boarder line all star. Shot selection and defensively poor. Maybe pairing with Frankie in backcourt could help on D? I’m not high on Rozier. Devonte Graham looks the better pg option in Charlotte.

Agreed, Love & Griffin past their best for me. Drummond would prevent Mitchs development too much.

With the exception of RJ, we suck at drafting. And when we do draft well, it hardly ever works out.

Lavine is still an upgrade over Knox and DSJr. Shit, he'd be an upgrade over Spinoverandle at this point.
jrodmc
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4/24/2020  9:50 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Bill Simmons podcasts are still pretty good listens on long walks out of the house.
He had a good line "Minny got Russell is like a having a baby to save a marriage".........And we know that don't work!
His take is Towns might be the next "disgruntled". Minny as a franchise is bloody awful! You give them Randle, Knox, Iggy, this years first (we'll know where it is soon enough), and one of dallas'. Throw in Dennis if it helps. I see towns as a stretch 4. Front line of with RJ and Mitch.
Im keeping Frank jus to piss off the Rainman.

CP3 as mentor? Im really not paying much for him. He is 34 with a god awful contract. The fact he had a great season means he is that much closer to an empty tank.

At the end of the day no need to chase a trade. Teamns and players know Knicks are able to deal. Player has to force his way here and we can't over pay. Seen that movie before and it don't end well.

Melo forced his way here. We totally had the upper hand. Somehow, someway, we still decided to give everything to Denver because Dolan had zero patience.

Okay, I'll click on the bait.

Melo was going to Brooklyn or here. The CBA negotiations negated waiting to walk the following season. WE GAVE UP A PILE OF SHIT FOR MELO, and some of it even floated back up the toilet into the bathroom (Hi RayRay!) I'll give you that the draft picks were definitely not necessary. Possibly having Rudy Gobert here would have been nice, but there's no guarantee we wouldn't have screwed the pooch with the picks anyway.

6 seasons. 4 coaches. No playoffs. How much patience would you have had after watching LeQ go to Miami and fighting the Celts superfriends every season?
newyorknewyork
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4/24/2020  10:52 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Knickfury11 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Get Chris Paul and don't trade Frankie. I'm buying that one, all day, everyday. Beats spending cap money on 15 third level forwards.
Zach Lavine for essentially Knox and a 1st rounder? I'm buying that one too. Especially if it involves ending the DSJr sad saga here.

Haven't watched much of Terry Rozier, so no comment.

Love, Drummond, Griffin? Pass

Looking at Lavine - offensively boarder line all star. Shot selection and defensively poor. Maybe pairing with Frankie in backcourt could help on D? I’m not high on Rozier. Devonte Graham looks the better pg option in Charlotte.

Agreed, Love & Griffin past their best for me. Drummond would prevent Mitchs development too much.

With the exception of RJ, we suck at drafting. And when we do draft well, it hardly ever works out.

Lavine is still an upgrade over Knox and DSJr. Shit, he'd be an upgrade over Spinoverandle at this point.

The deal offered in the article for Lavine would be a no brainer. But the Bulls would never agree to the deal offered in the article. There is no reason for the Bulls to give up Lavine for those unproven spare parts. They will look for a type of deal that jump starts their org.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
knicks1248
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4/24/2020  12:03 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Knickfury11 wrote:Griffin / Aldridge / Derozen instant passes. Only one for me is Beal (27yrs ) but that means you give up RJ.

By trading RJ for Beal, you are saying you are trying to win at least close to now. That means we would have to give up everything for win now players and pray to sign Anthony Davis. I will go on and say that I don’t think that’s likely possible. We don’t have enough assets for that, especially considering it would take a lot more than RJ to get Beal.

Dude we have been trying to draft our way to elite status for the last 6 to 7 seasons. So when you say win now, is that as opposed to continue to lose with some young unknowns.

Even if RJ turns into jerry stackhouse in 4 yrs, it still wont be enough

ES
Allanfan20
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4/24/2020  12:21 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Knickfury11 wrote:Griffin / Aldridge / Derozen instant passes. Only one for me is Beal (27yrs ) but that means you give up RJ.

By trading RJ for Beal, you are saying you are trying to win at least close to now. That means we would have to give up everything for win now players and pray to sign Anthony Davis. I will go on and say that I don’t think that’s likely possible. We don’t have enough assets for that, especially considering it would take a lot more than RJ to get Beal.

Dude we have been trying to draft our way to elite status for the last 6 to 7 seasons. So when you say win now, is that as opposed to continue to lose with some young unknowns.

Even if RJ turns into jerry stackhouse in 4 yrs, it still wont be enough

And we have also seen the team go into win-now mode and completely fail. When we built around Melo, we failed. When we built around Marbury, we failed even worse so excuse me for not being on your page.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Knickfury11
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4/24/2020  12:26 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Knickfury11 wrote:Griffin / Aldridge / Derozen instant passes. Only one for me is Beal (27yrs ) but that means you give up RJ.

By trading RJ for Beal, you are saying you are trying to win at least close to now. That means we would have to give up everything for win now players and pray to sign Anthony Davis. I will go on and say that I don’t think that’s likely possible. We don’t have enough assets for that, especially considering it would take a lot more than RJ to get Beal.

Granted Davis is a long shot, maybe it’s me being too inpatient but I really want to see a star added to our existing roster. To see if this would elevate the play of our core. Problem being if we don’t have an established core we don’t know who to let go. Mitch / RJ / Frankie are who I would ideally build around, are we able to attract top tier FA’s with them currently? Would say no, therefore only way to get new blood in is via draft ( fingers crossed ) or giving up the house via trade scenarios?!!?
knicks1248
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4/24/2020  12:59 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Knickfury11 wrote:Griffin / Aldridge / Derozen instant passes. Only one for me is Beal (27yrs ) but that means you give up RJ.

By trading RJ for Beal, you are saying you are trying to win at least close to now. That means we would have to give up everything for win now players and pray to sign Anthony Davis. I will go on and say that I don’t think that’s likely possible. We don’t have enough assets for that, especially considering it would take a lot more than RJ to get Beal.

Dude we have been trying to draft our way to elite status for the last 6 to 7 seasons. So when you say win now, is that as opposed to continue to lose with some young unknowns.

Even if RJ turns into jerry stackhouse in 4 yrs, it still wont be enough

And we have also seen the team go into win-now mode and completely fail. When we built around Melo, we failed. When we built around Marbury, we failed even worse so excuse me for not being on your page.

Things could have worked out well with Melo if the injuries(which can happen to anyone) to key players didn't happen and the triangle cult never happen.

Also the big difference now is that contracts are not really going beyond 3 yrs, so when you consider trading for win now players like beal and paul, your window is 2 to 3 yrs, that's not a franchise crippling gamble like Amare, allan, noah or eddy curry

ES
jskinny35
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4/24/2020  1:31 PM
Reading these reflective comments defending that Melo's injuries were more responsible than the trade is baloney - a good deal is still a good deal when you look back on it years later. Sometimes things don't work out and you can never always predict the outcome of a trade or a signing - but was it done with sound logic/reasoning?

Trading all those picks and players for a player that would have been available was impatient and stripped us of an ability to surround him with a team. Yes there were other blunders (Amare injury, Chauncey/Tyson) - but that doesn't change that we didn't proceed in the best way. Maybe he would have gone to NJ and then you pivot and move on to the next available situation. Instead we're always desperate and don't learn out lessons. You never make a colossal mistake by not making a deal - but we repeatedly lose patience which is the sign of the loser at the poker table.
Allanfan20
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4/24/2020  1:35 PM
Of course it is. Going for Beal and Paul robs you of all assets and flexibility and having both of those players guarantees you nothing. If Anthony Davis smokes crack and decides he wants to come here this Summer, which he wont, then we can talk about trading for Beal and Paul if that floats your boat. Not that I even like that trio. Beal comes from the Wizards, Paul is one bad step away from ending his career and Anthony Daviss’ health still concerns me.

I don’t believe in halfway winning now. It usually leads to headaches. I believe in building for a chaMpionship, not that we were anywhere close to that since 1999, 2000. Since then, we have been losers in every single way, including the ways you sometimes suggest.

And don’t talk to me about Melo. We had no way to ever build around him. If we waited for Paul, we wouldn’t have had Chandler. Without Chandler, obviously we couldn’t get Paul. We would have needed all 3 players. Not just Paul and Melo. That duo was not better than Wade, Bosh and LeToya.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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4/24/2020  1:36 PM
And from everything I remember, Melo had no interest in playing for the Nets. He only wanted to play for the Knicks.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
newyorknewyork
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4/24/2020  2:28 PM
Wouldn't mind a CP3 trade if they are able to buy at an average price. Say Randle, Smith, & future protected Dallas pick. That would be about the most I would give up. Randle & Smith dont look like long term options here. So only the future protected Dallas pick would really hurt. But getting CP3 in here to work with Barrett, Mitch, Frank & the PG drafted in the lottery could have such a big positive impact on their improvement. Having Cole Anthony or Haliburton & Frank play behind/alongside of Paul for 2 yrs would be huge. Having Paul create for Barrett and Mitch would be huge for them.

Rose could then over those 2 yrs work on filling out the other pieces like 3/D PF & 3/D Wing. When Paul is ready to step away hopefully Anthony?, Frank, Barrett, Mitch all developed into a strong core. Cap outlook would look pretty clean still hopefully leading to a FA that would want to join up. As well as sound decisons being made with the multiple first round picks due.

Would be a better play than trying to create a trio of B level or washed up "stars" for maybe a short term playoff push.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Nalod
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4/24/2020  4:20 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:And from everything I remember, Melo had no interest in playing for the Nets. He only wanted to play for the Knicks.

This notion that Melo would have gone free agency is a myth. I also remember he was ok to play in Jersey. Knicks were his preference as mentioned. Nuggs were playing a hard hand.
Im also convinced Knicks would have done a Deron Williams deal as Nets did. Utah was swift to move in and have someone save face. Dolan was in panic mode.


Nets officials have remained quietly confident for months, and received further assurances Sunday, a source told ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan, that Anthony ultimately would agree to the extension -- no matter how much he'd prefer to play with the Knicks -- to ensure that he locks in his contract before labor negotiations this summer that are expected to establish a much more restrictive financial landscape in the league.

ESPN.com reported last month that the Nets have already been granted permission to meet with Anthony face-to-face if a trade agreement is eventually struck with Denver. That would allow Nets billionaire owner Mikhail Prokhorov and part-owner Jay-Z to lead a contingent that would try to lobby the Brooklyn-born Anthony directly on the team's future in Brooklyn, with the Nets planning to move there in time for the 2012-13 season.

https://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6005596
EwingsGlass
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4/24/2020  4:30 PM
I know we all expect Anthony Davis to re-sign with LA. He is the only player remotely available that would make we want to do more than just add more to the core value of the team. Notably, he listed his house for sale in LA. That is generally an indicator that someone is about to change scenery. Could be nothing though. Adding AD changes the entire equation for the offseason. Everything is on the table then.

Other than that, there are not a lot of players I see that we could trade for that make a difference. I think you add more marginal value and look for an opportunity to present itself.

You know I gonna spin wit it
Allanfan20
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4/24/2020  5:44 PM
Yup, his first and very natural and honest reaction to the possibly being traded to the Nets looks like he was just sooooooooo thrilled. Glad I remembered this video.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Knickfury11
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4/28/2020  6:52 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/dailyknicks.com/2020/04/25/knicks-rumors-dangelo-russell/amp/

Just pondering what a pick n roll with Dlo and Mitch could of looked like.... Although in retrospect I’m glad this didn’t go down. Dlo too much of a defensive liability and constantly needs the ball to be effective. He’s not the most fluid of pgs when attacking the rim either. Also got to consider this guy’s been on 4 different teams in 5 years??

In some ways I see a lot of Dlo’s play similar to Lamelo? Just saying...
Nalod
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4/28/2020  8:33 AM

Bill Simmons said of trade "Seems like Minny bought in Russell to save a marriage like having a baby".......Make Townes happy for now.
For Mills to have made the deal it would have reeked of a panic move. Like when a guy is trying to keep his job. Very Knick like. While he is a good player at that price yoru getting a guy that really is not an alpha 1st option kind of player. Might work in Minny. Might have worked if paired with KP if he still here.
Have to say the move to Leon represents a return to a "Plan". Can't say what that is as its now known or fully developed. Phil had a vision which I comprehended as a trio of Melo-Rose-Noah which was far from perfect but in my opinon could have made the playoffs and been at least relevant and interesting. Good idea, badly executed, and in retrospect might have been outright delusional. Ok, GOAT coach was not an effective executive. Im not here to argue the validity of the plan, but at least it was one. MIlls Plan? Build around KP and first thing was to get him a shooter which was Hardaway. Not a terrible idea as Hardaway was trending up and at 18mm per an average wage for a shooting guard. He is not Docic. KP broke. Hardaway could not handle the workload. Mills needed to inject somthing to th knicks. Likely a good idea and likely would have been badly executed.
We can hope Leon IS the professional we need.
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