It could very well be that AD and Giannis don't move but every team in the league and especially NY should keep an eye out and plan for if they do want to move. I detailed out why they may want to think about it. Does it mean the Knicks shouldn't keep developing young players and smartly sign new ones? No. It means that they should also plan out for the possibility.

No one addressed the current cap and player/roster maneuverability of the Lakers or Milwaukee 2 to 3 years out and how that would affect either of those superstars consideration on whether to resign or not.

Just because the team HASN'T had the opportunity to sign a big time free agent doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for it or that it has to be your only plan.

newyorker4ever wrote:Don't do this to yourself, AD isn't leaving the Lakers and Giannis isn't leaving Milwaukee. The plan should stay with rebuilding through the draft and young players. We should trade whatever vet we can by this trade deadline and add more assets. I hate to have to trade Mook cause he's brought so much to this team and he wants to be here but lets be honest here, he's gonna take the best offer he gets this offseason no matter what cause this will be his last chance to get a 3-4 year deal from someone at his age and then will just sign one year contracts until he retires. Really love Mook and if we were a little further along in our rebuild then i'd be fine with keeping him and even giving him that 3 year deal at the right price but we're not and we can't hurt ourselves by not getting what we can for him just cause he's saying he wants to be here. We just need to make sure if we do trade him that we do it the right way and not let him leave with any bad words to say about the Knicks.

The only way i go off the rebuild plan through the draft is if something falls right for us and we're able to trade some draft picks and some young players to get our hands on two super stars. I don't see us being able to get a couple of stars to look our way in free agency until we've changed the culture in MSG and we're playing good basketball and the players are happy and we make the playoffs, so basically what the Nets were able to do but we got a little ways to go for that to happen just like the Nets went through multiple bad years before they put it together and made the playoffs last year.

SupremeCommander wrote:If our plan is to sign AD or the Greek Freak... wow... wowwwwwwwwwwww...been there, done that, doesn't work for us

HofstraBBall wrote:The AD news is all fluff. Nothing to see. Fact is he was expected to turn down any extension offer. His agent said so on many occasions. He is due to get $202M 5 year max deal if he waits to this summer. The most he can sign an extension for now is $146M. Additionally, there is NO SIGNS that he is looking to leave the Lakers. Considering their current success and it being his preferred destination. There in no shot he comes to our laughing stock. Hope we stick to signing younger cusp guys, developing the young assets and staying away from overpriced 30+ year olds. As for those counting on AD or Greek Freak to come hear, they can continue to try to kick the football that will be pulled away.

stanleybostitch wrote:Think about it this way though - who has the better team in year 3-5 of that deal assuming Lebron rides into sunset. They have no youth and no assets outside of Kuzma. I'll take the Knicks core over no-Lebron LAL in 2022+

I mean on one hand, I would love that. On the other hand, how many free agent decisions have the Knicks made right over the years? How many legitimately big names have come? I cleaned up an article that had all of these signings and, I'm not gonna lie, it made me really sad:

John Wallace - 3 years, $6.6 million
Latrell Sprewell - 5 years, $61.9 million extension
Kurt Thomas - 3 years, $13 million
Clarence Weatherspoon - 5 years, $27.5 million
Allan Houston - 6 years, $100 million
Frank Williams - 3 years, $2.7 million
Michael Doleac - 2 years, $3 million
Latrell Sprewell for Keith Van Horn
Dikembe Mutombo - 2 years, $8.5 million
Vin Baker - 2 years, $7.35 million
Jerome James - 5 years, $30 million
Jared Jeffries - 5 years, $30 million
David Lee - 1 year, $7.5 million
Nate Robinson - 1 year, $4 million
David Lee - 6 years, $80 million (then traded)
Raymond Felton - 3 years, $25 million
Timofey Mozgov - 3 years, $9 million
Roger Mason Jr. - 1 year, $1.4 million
J.R. Smith - 2 years, veteran minimum
James White - 1 year, minimum
Jason Kidd - 3 years, $9 million
Steve Novak - 4 years, $15 million
Pablo Prigioni - 1 year, veteran minimum
Ronnie Brewer - 1 year, veteran minimum
Pablo Prigioni - 3 years, $4.5 million
J.R. Smith - 4 years, $24.7 million
Metta World Peace - 2 years, $3.2 million
Kenyon Martin - 1 year, veteran minimum
Carmelo Anthony - 5 years, $124 million
Jason Smith - 1 year, $3.3 million
Aaron Afflalo - 2 years, $16 million
Derrick Williams - 2 years, $10 million
Robin Lopez - 3 years, $60 million
Kevin Seraphin - 1 year, $2.8 million
Marshall Plumlee - 1 year, minimum
Brandon Jennings - 1 year, $5 million
Courtney Lee - 4 years, $48 million
Joakim Noah - 4 years, $72 million
Lance Thomas - 4 years, $25 million
Ron Baker - 1 year, minimum
Luke Kornet - 1 year, minimum
Tim Hardaway Jr. - 4 years, $71 million
Ramon Sessions - 1 year, $3.2 million
Mario Henzonja - 1 year, $1.6 million
Noah Vonleh - 1 year, $1.6 million

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:Think about it this way though - who has the better team in year 3-5 of that deal assuming Lebron rides into sunset. They have no youth and no assets outside of Kuzma. I'll take the Knicks core over no-Lebron LAL in 2022+

I mean on one hand, I would love that. On the other hand, how many free agent decisions have the Knicks made right over the years? How many legitimately big names have come? I cleaned up an article that had all of these signings and, I'm not gonna lie, it made me really sad:

John Wallace - 3 years, $6.6 million
Latrell Sprewell - 5 years, $61.9 million extension
Kurt Thomas - 3 years, $13 million
Clarence Weatherspoon - 5 years, $27.5 million
Allan Houston - 6 years, $100 million
Frank Williams - 3 years, $2.7 million
Michael Doleac - 2 years, $3 million
Latrell Sprewell for Keith Van Horn
Dikembe Mutombo - 2 years, $8.5 million
Vin Baker - 2 years, $7.35 million
Jerome James - 5 years, $30 million
Jared Jeffries - 5 years, $30 million
David Lee - 1 year, $7.5 million
Nate Robinson - 1 year, $4 million
David Lee - 6 years, $80 million (then traded)
Raymond Felton - 3 years, $25 million
Timofey Mozgov - 3 years, $9 million
Roger Mason Jr. - 1 year, $1.4 million
J.R. Smith - 2 years, veteran minimum
James White - 1 year, minimum
Jason Kidd - 3 years, $9 million
Steve Novak - 4 years, $15 million
Pablo Prigioni - 1 year, veteran minimum
Ronnie Brewer - 1 year, veteran minimum
Pablo Prigioni - 3 years, $4.5 million
J.R. Smith - 4 years, $24.7 million
Metta World Peace - 2 years, $3.2 million
Kenyon Martin - 1 year, veteran minimum
Carmelo Anthony - 5 years, $124 million
Jason Smith - 1 year, $3.3 million
Aaron Afflalo - 2 years, $16 million
Derrick Williams - 2 years, $10 million
Robin Lopez - 3 years, $60 million
Kevin Seraphin - 1 year, $2.8 million
Marshall Plumlee - 1 year, minimum
Brandon Jennings - 1 year, $5 million
Courtney Lee - 4 years, $48 million
Joakim Noah - 4 years, $72 million
Lance Thomas - 4 years, $25 million
Ron Baker - 1 year, minimum
Luke Kornet - 1 year, minimum
Tim Hardaway Jr. - 4 years, $71 million
Ramon Sessions - 1 year, $3.2 million
Mario Henzonja - 1 year, $1.6 million
Noah Vonleh - 1 year, $1.6 million

Realistically, so what?

Most of the people on that list don't have to do with the current situation or aren't worthy of inclusion/discussion.

Each situation is different.

Yeah you're totally right. I can totally see The Greek Freak adding his name to this list. I could totally see the appeal of coming here.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:Saw this in the VanFleet thread and had been meaning to start another similar topic.

What is the Knicks 2+ year plan? I think it involves taking a shot at Antonio Davis and/or Greek Freak.

franco12 wrote:Actually - as I think about this - the question really is what does the next step for our team look like.

They were in the clipper game - since Fizdale was canned and we got a real coach, we've been playing well and have just fallen short at times against really good teams.

Keep this group together, largely, add someone like VanFleet and our 2020 draft pick and have some players take next steps like Knox, Robinson, Frank and Barrett - and I think we'd legitimately (baring major injuries) have a shot at winning in the 40s - so anywhere from 40-49.

I'm trying to be objective and not rose colored glasses Nixluva like.

IMHO I think AD/Giannis both have this year and next and then will make either a 1 year commitment to same team IF everyone is healthy and they get to finals AND there is not another team to jump to long term for a max 4-5 year deal. Both would be around 28/27 (AD/G). I just don't see a path for both guys to stay on same team with a healthy long term roster (everyone else around them in current form will be on wrong side of 30 barring dramatic moves).

Realistically, AD has this year and next with LeBron (35 right now). No way LeBron lasts til 37 as a top line player and if you look at their other guys, Green would be 34, Brady 32, etc. Only young guy on team is Kuzma. I see AD as a Laker for this year and next, after that how do the Lakers build a championship team with LeBron at like $40M and AD at $35M?

Same goes for Giannis, after this year and next in Milwaukee, Bledsoe, Middleton, Lopez, Hill, etc. will be in the 30-33 range and who knows if all of them would last past that as top line players performing to today's standards. Would Greek Freak sign a 1 year deal with those guys to try one more time or move to a new team with a 4-5 year deal?

Those are the 2 guys I would hold out cap space for and build up to. Does this have to be an exclusive plan? No, but I'd make sure they were in the long term thoughts.

Knicks will have had 3 additional first round draft picks added to team going into 2022 season, 2 this upcoming draft (which sucks cause the draft is not supposed to be good). Got to nail one of them or combine and move up. And some of the young guys would have to grow for either superstar to want to join team.

Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox, DSJr will all be 24 and younger (23 if you don't count DSJr) in 2 years. Can you believe it? In 2 years those guys are all still waaaay young. Plus 3 first rounders and maybe another with Morris trade. Knicks will also have 2 first rounders in 2023 draft (Dallas is protected 1-10).

I am actually AOK with not making playoffs this year for a shot at a better pick, got to be top 5 at least, they are #4 right now. Next year HAS to be a good playing year, playoffs are a must to show AD/Giannis that they got the goods. How good can RJ, Mitch, Knox, Frank and 2 draft picks be next year with Randle, etc.? Knicks do need a guard that can break down defense and get his own shot on a regular basis.

I'm glad Iggy is doing work in GLeague and I'm keeping an eye on Kenny Wooten as a bench guy in a mold of a smaller Mitch.

There was a weird comment by Jonathon Macari on the Knicks Film School podcast, where he said he wasn't going to say anymore, but he's fearful of the Knicks making a huge trade offer (i.e. empty all the trade assets) for Ben Simmons. I thought at the time it was a weird fear to have because it doesn't make any sense, but thinking about it he does seem to have a team source lately.

Can you think of a Simmons trade that would make sense for either the Knicks or Sixers? I can't! He can't shoot or hit free throws- how many of those do we need? Only way I can think of the Sizers being interested would be a three team or more, maybe landing CP3 from OKC.

It seems like the Knicks plan is basically to carry on accumulating picks and developing players and then trade for the first player who becomes disgruntled/moveable (be it Simmons, Towns whomever). the problem with that it there are two teams with a tonne more pick assets than us (OKC and Pelicans) who also have better young moveable players than us- we'll get easily outbid.

Agreed, I wouldn't trade for Simmons and that contract unless they threw in Embiid.

It's the year 2020 and he's a 6'10" NBA PG that has attempted 5 (five) 3 pt shots. So. Far. This. Entire. Season.
Plus, all reports are he's a 3rd degree head case. Those FT numbers look eerily alot like another Knick legend. Could you imagine paying someone with Chris Dudley's FT shooting prowess 30+ million a season?

Pass.

Imagine if the Suns and Nets said the same things about Jason. Here are the plusses: easily alleviates any playmaking issues the team has, can guard nearly every position on the court and can be plugged nearly everywhere. It's definitely a deal to consider.

Jason Kidd??? The Jason who started off his career shooting 70% from the line??? The Jason who shot 3 to 4 threes A GAME, NOT A SEASON in his first three seasons??? Is that the Jason you're talking about???

And exactly how does someone without a jump shot get plugged in nearly everywhere? What defines "nearly" in your world? Embiid (not exactly an NBA-level rocket scientist) is busy trying to drive the kid out of Philly because it's like playing 4 on 5 on offense. Not exactly difficult for the opposition to figure out how to beat that come playoff time.

Not disagreeing Simmons has tremendous upside, on some other team, but certainly not for this franchise at this time. And not at that price.

Simmons can play 5-2 and be your lead ballhandler, so yeah, he can play nearly everywhere. You need shooters around him, but you cannot deny his be versatility. Also, I'm talking about the same Jason Kidd who was a sub 40% shooter for the first four years of his career. The three is important, but it's not the end all, be all. Embiid can't really shoot the three. You're saying he's not a max player?

Embiid is max player because he's a behemoth center. Who actually can space the floor, since he's at least a threat to step out and hit a three. Do you watch any Sixer's games?

Again, not expecting Simmons to lead the league in 3pt %, but do you honestly want to pay someone max money to handle the ball and not be able to hit a 3 AT ALL?

And have you anything to offer about what's been written about Simmons being a non-coachable chucklehead?

Nalod wrote:Tawk amongst yourselves.......

Money aside, would you trade SImmons for RJ straight up?

hell yes I would, and you know, I'd throw in DSJr and one of the Dallas picks

Chandler wrote:I can see AD here. I think he was sincere when he said he wanted to be here. Of course he could be using this for leverage, but i don't think he needs any. He'll get whatever max is then available. I can also imagine him wanting out of Lebron's shadow

Giannis is a tougher nut to crack. Milwaukee is a dump (apologies to Milwaukeens) and i can easily see him in NY compared to Milwaukee to get all the benefits/culture NY has to offer. But there are other cities that can do same, e.g., LA. If Milwaukee continues to win big and go deep, i think he stays there; if not i can see him moving but think the chance of landing him is much lower.

Practical consideration, will be extremely difficult to build a team around either of these guys without their full Bird Rights. And the Knicks don't have the asset base to trade for them.

Outside the court consideration, Leon Rose and Rich Paul had a massive falling out when LBJ and Paul went in their own direction ( and tried to poach a lot of Rose's client list out the door) Paul is still trying to poach Rose's client list. In general, it's accepted in the agent game to have agents try to get guys to leave other agents. But there is an unspoken rule that you don't do it to someone you've worked for before while you were coming up or who gave you your start. For AD to be a Knick, Rose either needs to be gone or AD needs to leave Klutch. Klutch is known to push over the informal lines on what is considered acceptable tampering, but since LBJ is the defacto owner and since the league, network and Nike all want to lick LBJ's balls, nothing happens. What I'm saying is if MRob breaks out in a huge way, you are more likely to see LBJ panning the Knicks in the press on how they use MRob than you will see AD in a Knicks uniform.

From what I hear, Greek Freak has been heavily linked to Golden State. He wants a ring if he leaves the Bucks. Octagon is apparently hot and heavy with the Warriors brass and the league can't do much because they both use Damion Lee as a cover.

If the Knicks want a shot at Greek Freak, they'll need to hit heavy in their next few drafts. This draft, their lottery pick needs to be a Top 20 player. Their late first needs to be a Top 50 player. Barrett needs to break out. Their 2nd rounder needs to be a Top 50 player by mid next season. You basically need to build a young elite cheap roster to make the move to NY look worthwhile.

The other issue is COVID19, players are going to get more push period ( from everyone, their family, their agents, their sponsors) to lock in long term right now. Interesting thing is cap related adjustments are built for max contracts, so there's actually an incentive for AD and Greek Freak to take less than the full max possible IF they predict a massive collapse of the league very soon.

I don't see either becoming Knicks, the logistics are too difficult, however the Knicks need to run lean and efficient and be open to ANYTHING that could be an opportunity a year from now, a month from now, a week from now. Something could change ( not likely though) and one of these guys could be an option, but more likely just building an asset base opens up other doors that haven't revealed themselves yet.

Kyle Kuzma is a more practical get for the Knicks. He's not AD or Greek Freak obviously, but he won't cost them as much either.

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:I can see AD here. I think he was sincere when he said he wanted to be here. Of course he could be using this for leverage, but i don't think he needs any. He'll get whatever max is then available. I can also imagine him wanting out of Lebron's shadow

Giannis is a tougher nut to crack. Milwaukee is a dump (apologies to Milwaukeens) and i can easily see him in NY compared to Milwaukee to get all the benefits/culture NY has to offer. But there are other cities that can do same, e.g., LA. If Milwaukee continues to win big and go deep, i think he stays there; if not i can see him moving but think the chance of landing him is much lower.

Practical consideration, will be extremely difficult to build a team around either of these guys without their full Bird Rights. And the Knicks don't have the asset base to trade for them.

Outside the court consideration, Leon Rose and Rich Paul had a massive falling out when LBJ and Paul went in their own direction ( and tried to poach a lot of Rose's client list out the door) Paul is still trying to poach Rose's client list. In general, it's accepted in the agent game to have agents try to get guys to leave other agents. But there is an unspoken rule that you don't do it to someone you've worked for before while you were coming up or who gave you your start. For AD to be a Knick, Rose either needs to be gone or AD needs to leave Klutch. Klutch is known to push over the informal lines on what is considered acceptable tampering, but since LBJ is the defacto owner and since the league, network and Nike all want to lick LBJ's balls, nothing happens. What I'm saying is if MRob breaks out in a huge way, you are more likely to see LBJ panning the Knicks in the press on how they use MRob than you will see AD in a Knicks uniform.

From what I hear, Greek Freak has been heavily linked to Golden State. He wants a ring if he leaves the Bucks. Octagon is apparently hot and heavy with the Warriors brass and the league can't do much because they both use Damion Lee as a cover.

If the Knicks want a shot at Greek Freak, they'll need to hit heavy in their next few drafts. This draft, their lottery pick needs to be a Top 20 player. Their late first needs to be a Top 50 player. Barrett needs to break out. Their 2nd rounder needs to be a Top 50 player by mid next season. You basically need to build a young elite cheap roster to make the move to NY look worthwhile.

The other issue is COVID19, players are going to get more push period ( from everyone, their family, their agents, their sponsors) to lock in long term right now. Interesting thing is cap related adjustments are built for max contracts, so there's actually an incentive for AD and Greek Freak to take less than the full max possible IF they predict a massive collapse of the league very soon.

I don't see either becoming Knicks, the logistics are too difficult, however the Knicks need to run lean and efficient and be open to ANYTHING that could be an opportunity a year from now, a month from now, a week from now. Something could change ( not likely though) and one of these guys could be an option, but more likely just building an asset base opens up other doors that haven't revealed themselves yet.

Kyle Kuzma is a more practical get for the Knicks. He's not AD or Greek Freak obviously, but he won't cost them as much either.

Obviously i can't compete with you in terms of the CBA or insider knowledge, and very much enjoy your posts! having said that, lakers got AD for a bunch of underperformers. And i would be thinking more in terms of FA than a trade. Miami routinely finds way to add FA talent.

i think the key to either player being here is that they have to truly want to be here, not merely willing to work here. maybe getting a ring with GS, or carrying LBJ's bags is not all that great. Maybe some of these guys want to leave their own mark. For all of Phil's faults, he used to say he wanted guys who wanted to be here; i think the team needs to market in the right way.

We also need enough talent and stability (short supply on both right now) to make anyone like AD or G to want to come here, i.e., so it doesn't look like a suicide mission.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of the approach of chasing FA superstars for a variety of reasons. I was just commenting on what i think could happen in terms of top guys