newyorknewyork wrote:Firing him wouldn’t be based off his win loss record. Would be based off his ability to develop players. There really is no evidence of this. Firing him just to get him out because he is losing wouldn’t accomplish much if that was the reason. But using the rest of the season to evaluate if Mike Miller is capable wouldn’t be bad. Or if not Mike Miller. A coach who can actually show the results of developing and improving young players. As that is the only way for the Knicks to move forward.

What evidence is available to prove that Brett Browns developed his players in his 1st 4 years in Philly when he won 19, 18, 10 and 28 games? Did he all of sudden become a better developer of players once his franchise brought in 2 #1 picks?

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.

Knixkik wrote:Fizdale has been disappointing because you could just roll the ball out and this team could find a way to get 4 wins with no system or offense. So what is he bringing to the table ?

It is no way to evaluate the food before it is cooked.
You can bring it to the table but it will not be eatable.
May be we should wait until food is cooked before firing the cook before dinner is ready?
Granted fans hungry for wins but we still collecting ingredients.
So Fiz no-Fiz no food for you yet...

knicks1248 wrote:Fiz said after the game that basically the team stop listening to his little motivational speeches him...

Once that happens its a wrap. On most cases you wait til the season ends, b

Management has failed on every single promise they made. No building around KP, no culture change, they fail miserably at making this an attractive destination, no identity, no accountability, no winning environment..

OK. They failed.
Why you think anyone else will succeed in 2 years at next try?
And who this can be? May be you genius?

Nalod wrote:Label blame on Fiz. Then fire him. Short term problem solved. Tread water.
End of season Blame Mills, then fire him. That effectively eliminates the last 6 years.

Until then you say "We draft another franchise talent, trade for better players and sign star free agents". This what Knicks1248 says.
Its a great plan! Sign me up! I'd be excited an full of hope to get rid of the guys that caused this.
Just like we got rid of the others!!!

You can change the FO and coach, but its a players league and who you play matters. Nalod is at a loss. I figured it would be rough but this is really bad.
we hung good with Philly and our last boston game. The blow out was bad, Technically we were with our third string PG playing and our rook had an epic bad game.
Fire Fiz? I don't care anymore. Maybe it has to be done to protect the brand.

To protect the ego-brain of Rainman and similar clones.

arkrud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Fiz said after the game that basically the team stop listening to his little motivational speeches him...

Once that happens its a wrap. On most cases you wait til the season ends, b

Management has failed on every single promise they made. No building around KP, no culture change, they fail miserably at making this an attractive destination, no identity, no accountability, no winning environment..

OK. They failed.
Why you think anyone else will succeed in 2 years at next try?
And who this can be? May be you genius?

This team could do a lot better. First off the Knicks got two- three good pick ups in FA. Morris has been playing really well and Randle is not as bad as the system is making him out to be. Gibson is steady in a KT kind of way. The problem lies mostly in the youth development. Last year you saw Trier, Knox and some mercenaries get freedom to do whatever. Coach was dreaming of FAs and Zion to be concerned about the youth movement. Now we the fans are reaping the results of laissez faire coaching from last year.

Yes there are coaches out there that will struggle but there are teachers out there that can get the knowledge to help the young players. The Knicks can’t have a novice showing the ropes to the kids. It would help to get someone who has tenure and has had success in development of players and who comes with knowledge of his system. Fizdale came with no system no plan this guy is getting by on references alone and no substance whatsoever.

Chandler wrote:the circus is back in town. Keeping fizz will only prove that point all the more. We are wasting valuable development time. Of all the coaches that wanted to be here the FO hired the worst. They need to go too

FO plan for FA was a dumpster fire, first playing up (or at least not denying) a quest for top FA after trading KP; losing out on prime FAs (not even getting interviews) and then rushing to buy what are now called journeyman at top dollar (for the record, i think Randle and Marcus have talent and can contribute if used better)

as far as fizz, he's just a bunch of hot air with stupid metaphors. Every single game he does stuff that is monumentally stupid. This will be his last gig as a head coach

and let's not forget the memphis experience. alienates big men/foreign players (hmmm have we seen that here). Got fired because he couldn't close games. How many leads have we blown?

nice guy but not a HC

I do agree with other posters that timing should be predicated on when they have new HC plan in place.

If FO can find better coach who will agree to disregard ensured losing seasons ahead and concentrate on development and rebuild I have no problem with the change.
But do this just to shut up media and mislead fans (again) is not helpful.
Unfortunately this FO is limited with their anti-Euros and long/athletic versus skilled/intelligent philosophy.
I believe that if Fiz should go all 3 musketeers should go together. Fiz is Mills/Perry responsibility.

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Firing him wouldn’t be based off his win loss record. Would be based off his ability to develop players. There really is no evidence of this. Firing him just to get him out because he is losing wouldn’t accomplish much if that was the reason. But using the rest of the season to evaluate if Mike Miller is capable wouldn’t be bad. Or if not Mike Miller. A coach who can actually show the results of developing and improving young players. As that is the only way for the Knicks to move forward.

What evidence is available to prove that Brett Browns developed his players in his 1st 4 years in Philly when he won 19, 18, 10 and 28 games? Did he all of sudden become a better developer of players once his franchise brought in 2 #1 picks?

Brett Brown's coaching ability is still questioned to this day. But even with that it's not the same scenario. Knicks attempted to win this yr. Philly purposely tanked for yrs with G league players and had first round and 2nd Rd picks galore to fall back on. Every player they acquired was added with a draft pick attached. The moment they became serious about winning they won. Granted when they were serious they acquired higher quality talent than the Knicks have.

Brett Browns success is most likely due to the talent of Simmons and Embild more so than the ability to get the most out of each player or mold diamonds from the rough. Doc Rivers had Harris playing like a complete player on and off the ball.

So is the plan to keep Fiz until the one day we land a Simmons or Embild level dude? Do we trade off any young assets that can't produce for Fiz right now for vets that are more capable?

The sad part is even if all of that gets established for him and he has a bunch of proven vets and a star or 2 that can do all the work for him. It's still wouldn't be a sure thing that he would be able to take the team to the next level.

And I'm not even asking for wins. But again one example of many. They evaluated and drafted Knox I. the lottery. What was the plan for his progress and growth. How were they planning on utilizing him to make him successful?

Uptown wrote:Firing Fiz in the second year of a rebuild Sends the message that the circus is back at MSG and perhaps never left. If we fire Fiz, the new coach will be our 6th HC in 6 years!! We will remind the league that we are and always will be the poster franchise for ineptitude and turmoil.

Last year was a wash as we unapologetically tanked, and now, after 20 plus games, in year two of a rebuild, we want to for him? Because he can't compete with a roster full of journeymen and backups?! Development is a slow process, it has taken Frank 3 years to move from a G-League level talent, to legit back-up pg status. Mudiay had the best year of his short career last year. That don't count? How much time are we giving Fiz to develop these players? 20 segments like Mills and Perry?

The Sixers drafted Michael Carter Williams in 2014. There were some scouts comparing him to Penny Hardaway. By the same logic some of you are using, Brown should have been fired after his second year because Williams declined from his rookie year to his 2nd before he was traded all together. Williams has been on a decline ever since and is now a journeymen. Maybe Knox is what he is, a journeymen! Maybe Frank is what he is, a back up. Either way, he has shown improvement this year and Fiz should be credited for it.

We have a very long way to go and as soon as some of us see some adversity or things dont go exactly the way we want them to, we jump ship. Rebuilding is ugly!!! Rebuilkdng takes a lot of patients which most of us are proving not to have.