StarksEwing1 wrote:My issue with Fiz is that he has no system whatsoever. His "positionless" basketball is not a system abd just cause more chaos. he allows guys like Randle and Morris basically to have carte blanche. There is no accountability to keep he ball moving and allow the point guards to handle the ball. Im not saying Fizdale is the only problem but I really haven't gained any confidence of him being an effective head coach. Sure the players like him and play hard usually for him but that's only a small part of being a coach.

I dont think Fiz has been a good coach but what system do you run when 3 out of your 4 PGs have been hurt for a majority of the season, and we can all see that DJ is still not 100%. Where your starting C is a foul machine. Where you don't have a guy who can really break down an offense and get his own.

You keep spouting off about positionless and I have no idea what you mean. Fiz may talk about it but I feel it's more a distraction than anything, seems like the Knicks are running similar'ish sets as everyone else.

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No the backlash isn't worth it. Fiz is popular with influential players around the league, who will just blast us in the press after we fire him (as happened when he got canned in Memphis). Keep him til the end of the season, then get rid of Mills and let whoever takes over decide his fate. Don't see why any good coach would want to come here at this point.

Is that why he recruited ZERO players in 2 off seasons. Give me a break, lebron was a FA, the same guy that was front and center of the HOLLY support team for fiz, he jumped on a plane from Cleveland to LA.

Fizdale has proven to be totally worthless, just like the F/O. No development, No system, No idea how to utilize a rotation, Can't recruit.

What do you need to see another 10, 12, 18 game losing streak before it's justified? The dude has like a 19-80 record..HAVE A SEAT FIZ

YOu really think Lebron to NY was a disctinct possibility?
This team has the talent to win 44 games?
And you call me delusional?
Im not sure Fiz is doing that bad a job. Am I crazy? Nope, I think this roster is not very good.
Im as disappointed as anyone. The blame game is the fans prerogative. Fact is we don't know whats going on.

As I see it:
Our best closer is RJ Barrett. Good as he is, he is a 19 year old rookie.
When Morris is your closer, you got problems. He has not done a terrible job. He is better than Timmy. But he is limited.
Randle on paper is not awful either. Except he is not great either.
Frank would have had his number retired if he hit that 3 in the corner to tie the game up!
Nalod just taking it one game at a time. I have no emotional objection to firing Fiz but not sure it really helps the long term of this team and its reputation. We reason that Miller did a good job in the Gleague but has he? By what Measurement?
Canales, Jent, Miller and Smart......Are they doing their jobs? I get Fiz is responsible but you got 4 guys working with the players every day.
also, just because you teach someone something does not mean it gets executed on the court. It need become instinctive. That takes time and reps.

martin wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:My issue with Fiz is that he has no system whatsoever. His "positionless" basketball is not a system abd just cause more chaos. he allows guys like Randle and Morris basically to have carte blanche. There is no accountability to keep he ball moving and allow the point guards to handle the ball. Im not saying Fizdale is the only problem but I really haven't gained any confidence of him being an effective head coach. Sure the players like him and play hard usually for him but that's only a small part of being a coach.

I dont think Fiz has been a good coach but what system do you run when 3 out of your 4 PGs have been hurt for a majority of the season, and we can all see that DJ is still not 100%. Where your starting C is a foul machine. Where you don't have a guy who can really break down an offense and get his own.

You keep spouting off about positionless and I have no idea what you mean. Fiz may talk about it but I feel it's more a distraction than anything, seems like the Knicks are running similar'ish sets as everyone else.

Here are a couple of things Fizz should consider. If you love ISO ball at least do more picks so your guy isn't going against their defender of choice (or in Randle's case defenders

Don't dump your pgs in the corner if they can't shoot (ours can't). Keep pg up top (will also help with transition D). Guys like KK, Morris, ellington and even Portis are best served by playing in the corner to spread the floor.

Take the ball out of Randle's hands more. He can pass and shoot well enough, but he is a liability with his dribbling. If he knows he's going to touch the ball again, he'll be more likely to relinquish it -- same too for Morris

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:My issue with Fiz is that he has no system whatsoever. His "positionless" basketball is not a system abd just cause more chaos. he allows guys like Randle and Morris basically to have carte blanche. There is no accountability to keep he ball moving and allow the point guards to handle the ball. Im not saying Fizdale is the only problem but I really haven't gained any confidence of him being an effective head coach. Sure the players like him and play hard usually for him but that's only a small part of being a coach.

I dont think Fiz has been a good coach but what system do you run when 3 out of your 4 PGs have been hurt for a majority of the season, and we can all see that DJ is still not 100%. Where your starting C is a foul machine. Where you don't have a guy who can really break down an offense and get his own.

You keep spouting off about positionless and I have no idea what you mean. Fiz may talk about it but I feel it's more a distraction than anything, seems like the Knicks are running similar'ish sets as everyone else.

Agreed...the posters that post over and over that we dont run any sets dont know what to look for. We run flex sets (usually the 1st play of the game and 2nd half), we run horns a very popular NBA set, we run pin down double screens to free Ellington and Dotson for shots, side screen and rolls, 4 out and 1 in etc

The argument that can be made is adjusting some of the plays to some of the line ups Fiz puts on the floor...that's a fair argument. But to say we dont have a system is flat out wrong...

Did anyone paid any attention to the nyets and what they were running? Nothing innovative, some 5 out and 4 out read and react sets and pick and rolls. The difference was, their point guard took advantage of his one on one match ups and got to the rim out fir lay ups, fouls of kick outs for 3s....If we had better personnel, and more experienced personnel, the execution would be better...Also, some minor adjustments does need to be made depending on who is in the game..

when DSJ is in, we should run a 5 out set, clear the lane, plant Dot and Knox and the corner and run a heavy diet of PNR with Smith and Mitch...

So yes. But we also have to acknowledge that Mitch does not yet set picks, right? He slips pretty much 99% of PnR's without contact. Mitch, Portis, Randle are not good pick setters with Mitch being the worst and the other 2 being foul machines on too much of the picks.

Also, and I don't have super good feel on this, we don't have a ball handler that is good enough finisher at the rim to make it effective both ways. Case in point: Morris had 2 beautiful PnR sets with Mitch last game that ended in dunks. On the 3rd attempt, defense just covered Mitch and Morris badly missed a bunny 10 foot jumper which would be automatic by a real PG. Frank can pass out of the PnR but can't finish one himself. I have no idea on DSJr but feel like he is better but just not automatic or near enough automatic yet

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:My issue with Fiz is that he has no system whatsoever. His "positionless" basketball is not a system abd just cause more chaos. he allows guys like Randle and Morris basically to have carte blanche. There is no accountability to keep he ball moving and allow the point guards to handle the ball. Im not saying Fizdale is the only problem but I really haven't gained any confidence of him being an effective head coach. Sure the players like him and play hard usually for him but that's only a small part of being a coach.

I dont think Fiz has been a good coach but what system do you run when 3 out of your 4 PGs have been hurt for a majority of the season, and we can all see that DJ is still not 100%. Where your starting C is a foul machine. Where you don't have a guy who can really break down an offense and get his own.

You keep spouting off about positionless and I have no idea what you mean. Fiz may talk about it but I feel it's more a distraction than anything, seems like the Knicks are running similar'ish sets as everyone else.

How about simply setting some screens to allow more penetration? Randle shouldn't be bringing the ball up either. Not spouting anything either. Just giving my opinion. I've still been behind Fizdale, I want the guy to do well here

OK, tell us the guys that set good picks.

And tell us what you think positionless basketball is and how the Knicks are doing it, cause I have no idea

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No the backlash isn't worth it. Fiz is popular with influential players around the league, who will just blast us in the press after we fire him (as happened when he got canned in Memphis). Keep him til the end of the season, then get rid of Mills and let whoever takes over decide his fate. Don't see why any good coach would want to come here at this point.

This seems to be the most compelling at this point. I definitely don't trust Mills to hire another head coach. I love the new mindset he and Perry have moving forward but he has proven time and time again to find a good coach that would be a good fit. Funny thing is that I think keeping Horny in the long run would have proven to be a much better move.

If backlash is what is going to determine decision making than your saying Fizdale can basically squat on center court and take a dump on the Knicks logo. Results if LeBron and Wade and Durant and Kyrie bitch then you can say you did this to him by not coming to the Knicks. You could have saved his damn job. Now f’ off.

GustavBahler wrote:If Fizdale is fired in season, shouldnt be before the all star break. Mills shouldnt be able to survive another lotto season. Not after all these years with the org, and little or no accountability. Hope Perry stays on as GM though. Dont believe Mills as team president inspires confidence in big time FAs, because he is considered joined at the hip with Dolan.

I dont think You can't fire fiz without firing perry and mills if you wait til seasons end.

If you fire fiz ASAP, and the Interim coach turns it around (like woodson did when MDA step down), then Mills and perry have a chance to keep their jobs.

If they let him sink the ship to point of no return, then they all will certainly get fired.

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If Fizdale is fired in season, shouldnt be before the all star break. Mills shouldnt be able to survive another lotto season. Not after all these years with the org, and little or no accountability. Hope Perry stays on as GM though. Dont believe Mills as team president inspires confidence in big time FAs, because he is considered joined at the hip with Dolan.

You can't fire fiz without firing perry and mills if you wait til seasons end.

If you fire fiz ASAP, and the Interim coach turns it around (like woodson did when MDA step down), then Mills and perry have a chance to keep their jobs.

If they let him sink the ship to point of no return, then they all will certainly get fired.

Valid point in terms of corporate survival strategy.

If they are smart, that's actually there last hope.

If the interim guy also fails they are going get the boot anyway.

Alan said they are laying down the ground work in the event the fire fiz, basically seeing which assistant is worthy of the interim position

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

smackeddog wrote:No the backlash isn't worth it. Fiz is popular with influential players around the league, who will just blast us in the press after we fire him (as happened when he got canned in Memphis). Keep him til the end of the season, then get rid of Mills and let whoever takes over decide his fate. Don't see why any good coach would want to come here at this point.

This seems to be the most compelling at this point. I definitely don't trust Mills to hire another head coach. I love the new mindset he and Perry have moving forward but he has proven time and time again to find a good coach that would be a good fit. Funny thing is that I think keeping Horny in the long run would have proven to be a much better move.

Fizdale is not doing a good job by any measurable index. The only positives for the season so far have been RJ and Frank winning the PG job and Fizdale did everything humanly possible to NOT give it Frank so the look for Fizdale is pretty bad right now.

There is no solution waiting in the wings and the team isnt very good anyway. The question is what is the directive and goal in the short/medium/long term?

I think you have to wait it out with Fizdale until he losses the locker room. There is nothing interesting happening on the floor. We are not doing anything system wise that works except he always plays big and we are very good on the boards.

Nobody's value has improved. Maybe Morris. No team in a playoff run is going to look to add Portis or Ellington, although I think Morris does have great value.

So what are we doing?

Fish the directive should be to fire Fizdale and start to get the players to play in a system and prepare them for next year. Something Fizdale failed miserably doing last season. Knox not play defense Trier not playing defense is on him. He had all of last year to instill the habits necessary for good defense. But he was to enamored with offensive side of the ball and isolation basketball which he still does excessively today.
When people were saying he was wasting a valuable year last year to teach that should have been a red flag for everyone. He is not a developmental coach. He was complaining about talent instead of coaching what he had. He was think pie in the sky Durant and Kyrie or any big FA so he threw away a valuable year and let the players do whatever last year. Held only one guy accountable for not shooting and today he might be his best player.
The directive is simple let someone else take over and start teaching and developing with execution of offense and defense and start creating a cohesive team.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If Fizdale is fired in season, shouldnt be before the all star break. Mills shouldnt be able to survive another lotto season. Not after all these years with the org, and little or no accountability. Hope Perry stays on as GM though. Dont believe Mills as team president inspires confidence in big time FAs, because he is considered joined at the hip with Dolan.

Isn’t it Perry’s job to convince players to come to the Knicks as the GM I mean come on man. You don’t think Perry has a role in this mess? I’m sure Perry signed off on Fizdale and having a multitude of PFs. Perry track record is suspicious at best now if a bad coach is making his moves questionable than change the coach and see if another can’t work with what Perry has provided better. Either way Fizdale needs to be canned sooner rather than later.

Perry's job right out of the gate was trading one disgruntled star, one of three players in the league with an NTC, without putting us in cap hell. Second job was trading another disgruntled rising star, and putting the team in a better position capwise to sign big stars. Both these issues preceded him. Perry has been here 2 years, Mills has been here about 20. If you believe Dolan is an impediment to attracting stars, then likely so is Mills. Believe Perry has done a good enough job clearing cap space, acquiring picks, not signing broken down stars like Cousins to max deals. In all likelihood, a new team president would probably want to name his own GM, but I hope Perry sticks around.