Chandler wrote:they shouldn't be dumping him in the corner. His defender sags; he's not a threat there; and never gets the ball to keep the other team honest

he's 6'6" which is a luxury. he should be at the top of the key running PnR.

But he hasn’t proven capable of running p&r at a high level. At the end of the day Frank is still a 36% shooter who can’t get into the lane or create offense for others and hasn’t shown improvement in those areas. It doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s an elite defender , but we have to recognize what he is and isn’t right now.

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank is an old fashioned type of PG. That's why he is such a polarizing player and why guys like knicks1248 hates him because he doesn't fit the view of what a PG has to be in todays NBA.

One thing that I would like Fizdale implement with RJ and Frank is posting them up. They have a mismatch in height every game at those positions. Clyde mentioned this on more than 1 occasion. He said him and Earl would fight over who is posting every game because they were bigger than their counterparts.

Posting up the guards is a more advanced level of offense and would slow down ball movement for a potential mismatch. Knicks have barely been able to get guys involved with ISO from Randle/Morris, etc. and get their shooting on track. Dumping the ball down to RJ/Frank makes them decision makers in a spot without movement. Maybe next year.

When I say post him up, I don't mean in the traditional, get on the blocks and pin your man ou your back and wait for someone to feed you the rock similar to Ewing. A simple flex cut can work. Frank will set up opposite ball on the baseline, the teammate is ballside on the opposite block, and will set a cross screen for Frank to race ball side. When Frank receives the pass, it should be an easy shot considering he will be shooting over a smallish defender or maybe no defender at all if its a good pick.

I have mixed feelings about this. It seems it would definitely provide Frank with more quality shots, and certainly better than hiding him in the corner, but wouldn't we be better off running something like this for RJ (where he is a big , and likes finishing near the paint). And who feeds him?

I would still prefer to see him in PnR or pop

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank is an old fashioned type of PG. That's why he is such a polarizing player and why guys like knicks1248 hates him because he doesn't fit the view of what a PG has to be in todays NBA.

One thing that I would like Fizdale implement with RJ and Frank is posting them up. They have a mismatch in height every game at those positions. Clyde mentioned this on more than 1 occasion. He said him and Earl would fight over who is posting every game because they were bigger than their counterparts.

Posting up the guards is a more advanced level of offense and would slow down ball movement for a potential mismatch. Knicks have barely been able to get guys involved with ISO from Randle/Morris, etc. and get their shooting on track. Dumping the ball down to RJ/Frank makes them decision makers in a spot without movement. Maybe next year.

When I say post him up, I don't mean in the traditional, get on the blocks and pin your man ou your back and wait for someone to feed you the rock similar to Ewing. A simple flex cut can work. Frank will set up opposite ball on the baseline, the teammate is ballside on the opposite block, and will set a cross screen for Frank to race ball side. When Frank receives the pass, it should be an easy shot considering he will be shooting over a smallish defender or maybe no defender at all if its a good pick.

I have mixed feelings about this. It seems it would definitely provide Frank with more quality shots, and certainly better than hiding him in the corner, but wouldn't we be better off running something like this for RJ (where he is a big , and likes finishing near the paint). And who feeds him?

I would still prefer to see him in PnR or pop

Posting up and turn around jumpers go hand in hand. Turn around jumpers is a great way to improve jump shooting. Turn around jumpers take the think out of shooting.

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:they shouldn't be dumping him in the corner. His defender sags; he's not a threat there; and never gets the ball to keep the other team honest

he's 6'6" which is a luxury. he should be at the top of the key running PnR.

But he hasn’t proven capable of running p&r at a high level. At the end of the day Frank is still a 36% shooter who can’t get into the lane or create offense for others and hasn’t shown improvement in those areas. It doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s an elite defender , but we have to recognize what he is and isn’t right now.

Did you miss his latest game?

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:they shouldn't be dumping him in the corner. His defender sags; he's not a threat there; and never gets the ball to keep the other team honest

he's 6'6" which is a luxury. he should be at the top of the key running PnR.

But he hasn’t proven capable of running p&r at a high level. At the end of the day Frank is still a 36% shooter who can’t get into the lane or create offense for others and hasn’t shown improvement in those areas. It doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s an elite defender , but we have to recognize what he is and isn’t right now.

Did you miss his latest game?

I don’t buy into anything with that small of a sample size. I would need to see a significant change over time.

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:they shouldn't be dumping him in the corner. His defender sags; he's not a threat there; and never gets the ball to keep the other team honest

he's 6'6" which is a luxury. he should be at the top of the key running PnR.

But he hasn’t proven capable of running p&r at a high level. At the end of the day Frank is still a 36% shooter who can’t get into the lane or create offense for others and hasn’t shown improvement in those areas. It doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s an elite defender , but we have to recognize what he is and isn’t right now.

Did you miss his latest game?

I don’t buy into anything with that small of a sample size. I would need to see a significant change over time.

Then I suggest looking at FIBA Frank. He has over 4 years of tape showing that he is a PnR PG that can run it at a high level.

stanleybostitch wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank is an old fashioned type of PG. That's why he is such a polarizing player and why guys like knicks1248 hates him because he doesn't fit the view of what a PG has to be in todays NBA.

One thing that I would like Fizdale implement with RJ and Frank is posting them up. They have a mismatch in height every game at those positions. Clyde mentioned this on more than 1 occasion. He said him and Earl would fight over who is posting every game because they were bigger than their counterparts.

Dude I like frank as much as i like anyone on the roster.

I don't like his role on the team, just like i don't like Randle as a Point Fwd, or melo without a true veteran pg.

Our starting pg is dead last in ppg among all points guards, starters and the ones coming off the bench

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/position/point-guard

49 point guards in the league shoot better and score more points...

we can't win consistently like that, and it's clearly obvious

But he plays defense better than any of them. He's only 21 and showing signs of breaking out on offense (he drives, he has a sweet stroke, and he makes masterful passes). Give it time, he'll be the complete package and a cornerstone to a championship team.

Frank holds a 11.8 usage rate on the season. The lowest on the team by 4.1% (the next lowest Taj Gibson).

This last game vs the Cavs where he basically ran a strong PNR floor game for 29 mins. He did so with only a 11% usage rate.

stanleybostitch wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank is an old fashioned type of PG. That's why he is such a polarizing player and why guys like knicks1248 hates him because he doesn't fit the view of what a PG has to be in todays NBA.

One thing that I would like Fizdale implement with RJ and Frank is posting them up. They have a mismatch in height every game at those positions. Clyde mentioned this on more than 1 occasion. He said him and Earl would fight over who is posting every game because they were bigger than their counterparts.

Dude I like frank as much as i like anyone on the roster.

I don't like his role on the team, just like i don't like Randle as a Point Fwd, or melo without a true veteran pg.

Our starting pg is dead last in ppg among all points guards, starters and the ones coming off the bench

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/position/point-guard

49 point guards in the league shoot better and score more points...

we can't win consistently like that, and it's clearly obvious

But he plays defense better than any of them. He's only 21 and showing signs of breaking out on offense (he drives, he has a sweet stroke, and he makes masterful passes). Give it time, he'll be the complete package and a cornerstone to a championship team.

so are you saying you prefer frank over the other 50?

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:they shouldn't be dumping him in the corner. His defender sags; he's not a threat there; and never gets the ball to keep the other team honest

he's 6'6" which is a luxury. he should be at the top of the key running PnR.

But he hasn’t proven capable of running p&r at a high level. At the end of the day Frank is still a 36% shooter who can’t get into the lane or create offense for others and hasn’t shown improvement in those areas. It doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s an elite defender , but we have to recognize what he is and isn’t right now.

I would submit he has never been asked to run a PnR, nor has anyone else recently

And while he shoots 36% you have to account that almost all of his shots don't come as a primary option. I'm not saying all of his shots come from bailouts with time expiring but still...

Just seems to me it's a lot easier to coach him up to punish a smaller defender on a PnR, or if they switch lob to Mitch or whoever (which he probably prefers to do anyway)

Most of his shots are open looks. He has zero attention from the defense. He very rarely drives to the basket. It’s mainly open threes and pull-up jumpers non contested.

And he misses them badly, i have never seen an NBA player brick so many open shots in all my life.

I have never seen a guard turn down so many open lanes to the basket..

right now, he's a solid 18 to 20 minute a night role player..nothing more, nothing less

Knicks need to get a bonafide PG who does the things he lacks..

Done. Who you got? You want DSJr to start? You want Payton to start? Is there a bonafide PG right now available in free agency? Maybe a team willing to trade a bonafide PG?

You gotta play who you got and as per the OPs thread Frank is the best we got.

newyorknewyork wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:they shouldn't be dumping him in the corner. His defender sags; he's not a threat there; and never gets the ball to keep the other team honest

he's 6'6" which is a luxury. he should be at the top of the key running PnR.

But he hasn’t proven capable of running p&r at a high level. At the end of the day Frank is still a 36% shooter who can’t get into the lane or create offense for others and hasn’t shown improvement in those areas. It doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s an elite defender , but we have to recognize what he is and isn’t right now.

I would submit he has never been asked to run a PnR, nor has anyone else recently

And while he shoots 36% you have to account that almost all of his shots don't come as a primary option. I'm not saying all of his shots come from bailouts with time expiring but still...

Just seems to me it's a lot easier to coach him up to punish a smaller defender on a PnR, or if they switch lob to Mitch or whoever (which he probably prefers to do anyway)

Most of his shots are open looks. He has zero attention from the defense. He very rarely drives to the basket. It’s mainly open threes and pull-up jumpers non contested.

So he takes good shots?

Zero attention from the defense isn't accurate. When Robinson gets the ball at the top of the key his man stays in the paint. That is an example of no attention from the defense. There is no time this season when Frank has the ball by the 3 point line and his defender sits back and dares him to shoot because they have no concern of his jumper. If this has happen I must be missing it. If he gets an open jumper its because the defense collapsed. Ive seen him get trapped more than Ive seen teams offer him up a open shot.

He doesn't drive in the open court enough and he doesn't get deeper into the paint when he does drive for a pull up. Thats where he is at fault. But a lot of his lack of penetraton is due to lack of picks set, lack of quality picks set all with the purpose of freeing up guards. Lack of spacing to promote penetration. All until the last game vs the Cavs. Your basically saying Frank even though you aren't Harden/Curry with the handle and craftiness. We are going to offer you a crowded paint and no picks to get free. You just have to be great enough on your own to make it happen. It should be the opposite. It should be we understand you aren't Harden /Curry so lets actually help you out in these areas. Get you space to penetrate. Get you freed up with picks.

18.8% ast% on 11.8% usage% means he generates ast with the ball in his hands. Ast = pts.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank is an old fashioned type of PG. That's why he is such a polarizing player and why guys like knicks1248 hates him because he doesn't fit the view of what a PG has to be in todays NBA.

One thing that I would like Fizdale implement with RJ and Frank is posting them up. They have a mismatch in height every game at those positions. Clyde mentioned this on more than 1 occasion. He said him and Earl would fight over who is posting every game because they were bigger than their counterparts.

Dude I like frank as much as i like anyone on the roster.

I don't like his role on the team, just like i don't like Randle as a Point Fwd, or melo without a true veteran pg.

Our starting pg is dead last in ppg among all points guards, starters and the ones coming off the bench

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/position/point-guard

49 point guards in the league shoot better and score more points...

we can't win consistently like that, and it's clearly obvious

But he plays defense better than any of them. He's only 21 and showing signs of breaking out on offense (he drives, he has a sweet stroke, and he makes masterful passes). Give it time, he'll be the complete package and a cornerstone to a championship team.

He made up his mind about Frank on draft night 2017 so its a lost cause for him. Funny enough he actually had his one and only positive post about Frank after the first Dallas game. It was very out of character for him and Im still not sure if it was even him or not lol. Anyway look mostof us know Frank isn't a finished product yet but I have liked what ive seen this year he still needs to hit his shot more consistently but he has been more aggressive in looking for shots. I would like to see more picks set for him because he will help him penetrate more to the hoop. Obviously his defense make a big impact for us too.

what do i say negative about frank?

that he can't shoot, he's not aggressive, he is too passive, we he basically loses every PG battle, even to guys younger than him.

He has a old school way of playing, that doesn't really fit into the new era of the NBA, just like phil and his triangle. The triangle is a great way to keep everybody involve, but it's too slow a system to have any really impact.

The question i keep asking is why can't you just accept him for who he is, a one side of the ball player, a utility player, a back up, a role player, there's nothing wrong with that