fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Fizdale just needs to be make a stand and pick his guys for the rotation and go from there. He needs to stand by his decision. Just like in football if you have more than 1 QB then you don't have one. Pick your 10 man rotation and go from there.

Agreed, especially when it comes to the pg position....IMO, Fiz needs to turn the ball over to DSJ for the whole season, not 5 games, or 10 games but the entire season. Let him either fall flat on his face or excel and secure the job. We need to know for sure if we have our future point guard already here, or do we need to cut ties this summer and draft one.

Frank, not Payton or Ellington needs to be the first guard off the bench...He needs 25 mins per so he can develop and settle into a role. Neither Morris, Taj, Portis or Ellington will be in the blue and orange 2-3 years from now. Giving these guys mins can cost us a valuable young piece (Iso-Zo) moving forward due to lack of development and commitment to them.

think about the bold. If you are RJ, Mitch, Randle or anyone else, why do you have to suffer through a whole season of DS either figuring it out or not? How is RJ's development helped by that? How Mitch/Randle grow if the guy cant run a good P&R? I totally disagree and think the best players should play and that likely means the vets. These guys are stop gaps and could very well be gone at the deadline. I am not worried about Knox or Trier riding some early pine. They are gonna get tons of burn.

Now we have some stuff to observe. Perry got Fizdale some guys. Lets see how the team comes around. Early sched is very tough.

Suffer? RJ and Mitch are far from finished products, so why cant they grow with DSJ? Did Jon Collins suffer while Young learned to play the point on the NBA level? Did the Kings suffer while Fox struggled his first year, only to play at a near allstar level the next? We watched Mudiay get a ton of mins to develop, and he's no longer here. At some point, we need to give one of our guards a full season to develop rather than play musical chairs all season long which wont benefit neither Frank or DSJ.

I get the idea that if you are outplaying the comp in practice then you should get your mins...my problem is bringing in so many redundant players that can stunt the growth of some of our young players who are still on rookie deals only to see these vets soak up mins and walk in the summer...Other than Randle, maybe, None of these guys look like they will be apart of our future. They are here to get numbers, and a new contract next year...

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Fizdale just needs to be make a stand and pick his guys for the rotation and go from there. He needs to stand by his decision. Just like in football if you have more than 1 QB then you don't have one. Pick your 10 man rotation and go from there.

Agreed, especially when it comes to the pg position....IMO, Fiz needs to turn the ball over to DSJ for the whole season, not 5 games, or 10 games but the entire season. Let him either fall flat on his face or excel and secure the job. We need to know for sure if we have our future point guard already here, or do we need to cut ties this summer and draft one.

Frank, not Payton or Ellington needs to be the first guard off the bench...He needs 25 mins per so he can develop and settle into a role. Neither Morris, Taj, Portis or Ellington will be in the blue and orange 2-3 years from now. Giving these guys mins can cost us a valuable young piece (Iso-Zo) moving forward due to lack of development and commitment to them.

think about the bold. If you are RJ, Mitch, Randle or anyone else, why do you have to suffer through a whole season of DS either figuring it out or not? How is RJ's development helped by that? How Mitch/Randle grow if the guy cant run a good P&R? I totally disagree and think the best players should play and that likely means the vets. These guys are stop gaps and could very well be gone at the deadline. I am not worried about Knox or Trier riding some early pine. They are gonna get tons of burn.

Now we have some stuff to observe. Perry got Fizdale some guys. Lets see how the team comes around. Early sched is very tough.

Suffer? RJ and Mitch are far from finished products, so why cant they grow with DSJ? Did Jon Collins suffer while Young learned to play the point on the NBA level? Did the Kings suffer while Fox struggled his first year, only to play at a near allstar level the next? We watched Mudiay get a ton of mins to develop, and he's no longer here. At some point, we need to give one of our guards a full season to develop rather than play musical chairs all season long which wont benefit neither Frank or DSJ.

I get the idea that if you are outplaying the comp in practice then you should get your mins...my problem is bringing in so many redundant players that can stunt the growth of some of our young players who are still on rookie deals only to see these vets soak up mins and walk in the summer...Other than Randle, maybe, None of these guys look like they will be apart of our future. They are here to get numbers, and a new contract next year...

So the folly in the argument is putting DS in the same category as Fox and Young. Those guys showed franchise leading PG play. DS was a scorer on a 500 team. When at any point was DSjr regarded as a guy who was going to lead a franchise? Fox and Young (include Ball in there) were regarded as those kinds of players.

There is a realistic possibility DS will never be a good NBA PG, as he hasn't really shown much more than the ability to score and make athletic plays. So yes... suffer, in terms of development at least. So all that means is these guys have to earn it because there is no Fox, Young or Ball here. All our PGs are question marks and/or have warts. I would have been thrilled w/ Ja for this reason. Im very happy we got RJ. Ja went higher for a reason. We got DS and Frank and another guy who can play some PG.

Folly? Nah! Your folly was latching onto the names rather than the Idea that most young point guards who are drafted in the top ten are at the very least given a chance to struggle and develop as they learn to play the point in the NBA. They are given a chance, for the most part, to excel or fall flat on their face.

Would it have been better if I said Collin Sexton, who was picked at the same spot as Frank!? Sexton was the starter from Day 1 as the Cavs realized they were in rebuild mode. Why can't the Knicks embrace a full rebuild? This team of odd parts aint going to do much this year.

Of course there is a realistic possibility that DS will never be good point guard. I would like to eliminate the possibility and make it a known factor before moving on...With that said, I love RJ as well. I think long term, his best position is at the 3.

Vmart wrote:

TPercy wrote:Added too many vets? Ya'll know we have to win games right?

They saturated the positions to the point where coach is going to get paralyzed in decision making.

How? As far as I'm concerned our main core(Barrett, Knox, Robinson) are going to get ample minutes this season. Even the guys we are on the fence about (Frank, DSJ) will get a chance. The only person I'm a little concerned for is Trier as I think longterm he has 6th man potential but again, the added competition should motivate him to expand him game. I'm very content with the moves that were made given what was available to us. Now its up to Fiz to get a system going.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Fizdale just needs to be make a stand and pick his guys for the rotation and go from there. He needs to stand by his decision. Just like in football if you have more than 1 QB then you don't have one. Pick your 10 man rotation and go from there.

Agreed, especially when it comes to the pg position....IMO, Fiz needs to turn the ball over to DSJ for the whole season, not 5 games, or 10 games but the entire season. Let him either fall flat on his face or excel and secure the job. We need to know for sure if we have our future point guard already here, or do we need to cut ties this summer and draft one.

Frank, not Payton or Ellington needs to be the first guard off the bench...He needs 25 mins per so he can develop and settle into a role. Neither Morris, Taj, Portis or Ellington will be in the blue and orange 2-3 years from now. Giving these guys mins can cost us a valuable young piece (Iso-Zo) moving forward due to lack of development and commitment to them.

think about the bold. If you are RJ, Mitch, Randle or anyone else, why do you have to suffer through a whole season of DS either figuring it out or not? How is RJ's development helped by that? How Mitch/Randle grow if the guy cant run a good P&R? I totally disagree and think the best players should play and that likely means the vets. These guys are stop gaps and could very well be gone at the deadline. I am not worried about Knox or Trier riding some early pine. They are gonna get tons of burn.

Now we have some stuff to observe. Perry got Fizdale some guys. Lets see how the team comes around. Early sched is very tough.

Suffer? RJ and Mitch are far from finished products, so why cant they grow with DSJ? Did Jon Collins suffer while Young learned to play the point on the NBA level? Did the Kings suffer while Fox struggled his first year, only to play at a near allstar level the next? We watched Mudiay get a ton of mins to develop, and he's no longer here. At some point, we need to give one of our guards a full season to develop rather than play musical chairs all season long which wont benefit neither Frank or DSJ.

I get the idea that if you are outplaying the comp in practice then you should get your mins...my problem is bringing in so many redundant players that can stunt the growth of some of our young players who are still on rookie deals only to see these vets soak up mins and walk in the summer...Other than Randle, maybe, None of these guys look like they will be apart of our future. They are here to get numbers, and a new contract next year...

So the folly in the argument is putting DS in the same category as Fox and Young. Those guys showed franchise leading PG play. DS was a scorer on a 500 team. When at any point was DSjr regarded as a guy who was going to lead a franchise? Fox and Young (include Ball in there) were regarded as those kinds of players.

There is a realistic possibility DS will never be a good NBA PG, as he hasn't really shown much more than the ability to score and make athletic plays. So yes... suffer, in terms of development at least. So all that means is these guys have to earn it because there is no Fox, Young or Ball here. All our PGs are question marks and/or have warts. I would have been thrilled w/ Ja for this reason. Im very happy we got RJ. Ja went higher for a reason. We got DS and Frank and another guy who can play some PG.

Folly? Nah! Your folly was latching onto the names rather than the Idea that most young point guards who are drafted in the top ten are at the very least given a chance to struggle and develop as they learn to play the point in the NBA. They are given a chance, for the most part, to excel or fall flat on their face.

Would it have been better if I said Collin Sexton, who was picked at the same spot as Frank!? Sexton was the starter from Day 1 as the Cavs realized they were in rebuild mode. Why can't the Knicks embrace a full rebuild? This team of odd parts aint going to do much this year.

Of course there is a realistic possibility that DS will never be good point guard. I would like to eliminate the possibility and make it a known factor before moving on...With that said, I love RJ as well. I think long term, his best position is at the 3.

I mean if you look at the roster its about as full rebuild as it gets no? Obv last year was trash, and this year may be as well but we come in with an already large number of young and unseasoned NBA players. Knox, RJ, DS, Trier, Frank and Mitch all figure to be in or around the rotation. I think putting some guys like Randle/Morris/Taj who know how to do things at the NBA level and have is a good start to better evaluating these guys AND getting them playing better.

I am not worried about 15 vs 30 wins. The pipeline is pretty heavily invested in. Unfortunately we've had 2 high picks to build around in KP and RJ in the last bunch of years.

Vmart wrote:DSJ got his chance in Dallas and they sent him out of town. Trust me Carlyle was all to happy to send him out there were other issues there that the Mavs team kept secret. The Knicks are a foolish organization. Instead of rebuilding they went half ass again. We could have been build something to go forward with. Tell me if this lineup doesn’t give you more enthusiasm than what is currently going on with this team.

Knox
KP
Robinson
Barrett
Ntlikina

Now they mucked up the rebuild with the addition of vets that make no sense to the rebuild at the expense of the young players. Then everyone wonders why I think this organization is down right stupid.

MS wrote:This falls on management.

They had a stupid plan they were happy to execute 5 minutes into free agency.

They effectively signed 6 guys that are all of similar skill sets and demand minutes.

Gibson, Ellington, Payton were all unnecessary additions. We are likely not making the playoffs, so it would have been better just to see if we have anything with Knox, Frank, Trier and DSJR. Maximize them and trade the guys that don’t fit.

There is going to be fireworks in this lockeroom.

Injuries will sort this all out.
Fans always think the best scenario when all players are healthy and rolling.
This is very unlikely.
We will have an average share of this at best with so many young players and so many relying on athleticism.
Also we have no stars and even top tier players so we will have a bunch of slumps and inconsistent play.
Mark my words it will be times we have not enough players to put 10 in the game roster.