Uptown wrote:An attacking pg with vision that can collapse the defense and either kick or drop it off for layups and dunks will lift this offense and make Fiz system look so much better. Elf and especially Frank are ball movers and are rarely in attack mode...

DSJ can get into the paint almost at will, but his lack of a consitent Jay causes the D to sag ofg and clog the paint as they dare him to shoot. Also, his health is a concern. Same with Frank.

I feel like this is a make or break year for both DSJ and Frank. One or both will not be here in July.

I haven't watched a ton of Payton before. I thought he was an attacking, drive and dish PG?

GustavBahler wrote:As I mentioned in the game thread, Young had his teammates setting one screen after another for him. Often defenders were running into multiple screeners in one trip down the court. Cant recall a single screen being set for Smith jr. Didnt see any plays run for him as well. Young and DSJr are two of the fastest PGs in the league. Smith jr should expect the same from his teammates. All he needs is a little daylight to make something happen, like Trae.

Smith could have just gone one on five for most of the game, but he didnt. Spent almost all of it setting up other teammates. Fizdale needs to get that sorted out, more done to help Smith jr get going. Like setting screens.

Agree with this. Would think DSJR would thrive on offense if we had a PnR offensive scheme. Problem is, the Knicks seem to have committed to the idea that Randle and the front court is where the points will probably come from. Also, we dont have ANY three point consistent shooters so the need for a player, like Dennis. that is breaking down the defense and creating outside shots has less of a premium. As mentioned in another thread, think it is curious that the Knicks have put together a group of guys that are not typical of the style of play that other teams are trying to create.

If the Knicks are going to be a team that is composed of a mostly post up type offense, then I think Frank makes the most sense at PG. He can play solid defense and does not need to be overly aggressive on offense. Problem is, do not think that is the type of offense that we should be building.

If he don’t experiment we’ll call him “Inflexible”.
Let’s be real, the New guys are not that great. The young guys have the upside pedigree. They are here to pull them up.

Right now Dennis smith is not as good as Mudiay or Trey Burke. That shyt has to change.

Nalod wrote:If it works.......Don’t fix it.
If it’s Broke......Fix it.

If he don’t experiment we’ll call him “Inflexible”.
Let’s be real, the New guys are not that great. The young guys have the upside pedigree. They are here to pull them up.

Right now Dennis smith is not as good as Mudiay or Trey Burke. That shyt has to change.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:If it works.......Don’t fix it.
If it’s Broke......Fix it.

If he don’t experiment we’ll call him “Inflexible”.
Let’s be real, the New guys are not that great. The young guys have the upside pedigree. They are here to pull them up.

Right now Dennis smith is not as good as Mudiay or Trey Burke. That shyt has to change.

There was a ton of hype about Smith's great camp pre-injury, his changed shot, and his fitness. I think rust and injury had more to do with yesterday's performance. Twenty one minutes in one preseason game after being out again with a back injury shouldn't decide his fate or if he is extended.

I not suggesting to react as you said. “This shyt has to change”, Meaning he has to show what he can do!!

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:As I mentioned in the game thread, Young had his teammates setting one screen after another for him. Often defenders were running into multiple screeners in one trip down the court. Cant recall a single screen being set for Smith jr. Didnt see any plays run for him as well. Young and DSJr are two of the fastest PGs in the league. Smith jr should expect the same from his teammates. All he needs is a little daylight to make something happen, like Trae.

Smith could have just gone one on five for most of the game, but he didnt. Spent almost all of it setting up other teammates. Fizdale needs to get that sorted out, more done to help Smith jr get going. Like setting screens.

Agree with this. Would think DSJR would thrive on offense if we had a PnR offensive scheme. Problem is, the Knicks seem to have committed to the idea that Randle and the front court is where the points will probably come from. Also, we dont have ANY three point consistent shooters so the need for a player, like Dennis. that is breaking down the defense and creating outside shots has less of a premium. As mentioned in another thread, think it is curious that the Knicks have put together a group of guys that are not typical of the style of play that other teams are trying to create.

If the Knicks are going to be a team that is composed of a mostly post up type offense, then I think Frank makes the most sense at PG. He can play solid defense and does not need to be overly aggressive on offense. Problem is, do not think that is the type of offense that we should be building.

I've always like Fizdale, but I'm starting to wonder about this stuff.

It will be interesting to see how GS does without all their stars. They may not win, but they get open shots. They have a nice system, and guys buy in.

I am starting to wonder about what exactly Fizdale is trying to do. We don't have any uber talents that just make the game easy. We have to have some kind of system to create open looks. We may not have good shooters, but there is no reason for us to not get open looks.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I am a Frank guy. He defends great and he knows how to be a PG. His shooting MUST improve. The thing with Frank is that he has good form and his shots are usually hitting the front of the rim when he misses. IN practice vidoes he hits all his shots, so I am wondering if it is just a mental thing with him in games? Confidence? maybe h needs a sports psychologist?

Of the 3 players, he is the most complete. None of them shoot well enough to give an advantage to one. DSjr can get ot the basket a LITTLE better but the rest go to Frank. Payton has shown to be a decent guy off the bench. Many truple doubles in his resume, so he can be effective. Always a slow starter if I recall.

I would look to move DSjr for a proven shooter or a future draft pick.

The Knicks do not have enough pure shooters on the team.

IMO, Trier and DSJ are redundant and not in a good way. The Knicks should keep one or the other. Relegating either to the towel section of the bench is simply not cost-effective nor good for their careers.

Unless Fizdale is delusional about his commitment to defense then Frankie and Payton have got to be your PGs with whoever is left being the third option when scoring at any cost is necessary.

DSJ has simply not impressed me and, quite frankly, the Mavs wanted him to succeed. How he managed not only to F that up but to also turn himself into a league-wide undesirable trade asset remains a mystery. I'd love to be wrong about this guy but I get red flags popping up everywhere whenever I see his progress.

Trier is another player who I don't think fits well. He's a feelgood story for sure and given a free reign to ISO will get those stat sheets filled. I just don't see how that works on this team assuming we're both playing to win and trying to develop a winning culture. And this by no means is a slam of Trier who likely is a fit in the right system.

Maybe Atlanta would send us VC for one of them.

fwk00 wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I am a Frank guy. He defends great and he knows how to be a PG. His shooting MUST improve. The thing with Frank is that he has good form and his shots are usually hitting the front of the rim when he misses. IN practice vidoes he hits all his shots, so I am wondering if it is just a mental thing with him in games? Confidence? maybe h needs a sports psychologist?

Of the 3 players, he is the most complete. None of them shoot well enough to give an advantage to one. DSjr can get ot the basket a LITTLE better but the rest go to Frank. Payton has shown to be a decent guy off the bench. Many truple doubles in his resume, so he can be effective. Always a slow starter if I recall.

I would look to move DSjr for a proven shooter or a future draft pick.

The Knicks do not have enough pure shooters on the team.

IMO, Trier and DSJ are redundant and not in a good way. The Knicks should keep one or the other. Relegating either to the towel section of the bench is simply not cost-effective nor good for their careers.

Unless Fizdale is delusional about his commitment to defense then Frankie and Payton have got to be your PGs with whoever is left being the third option when scoring at any cost is necessary.

DSJ has simply not impressed me and, quite frankly, the Mavs wanted him to succeed. How he managed not only to F that up but to also turn himself into a league-wide undesirable trade asset remains a mystery. I'd love to be wrong about this guy but I get red flags popping up everywhere whenever I see his progress.

Trier is another player who I don't think fits well. He's a feelgood story for sure and given a free reign to ISO will get those stat sheets filled. I just don't see how that works on this team assuming we're both playing to win and trying to develop a winning culture. And this by no means is a slam of Trier who likely is a fit in the right system.

Maybe Atlanta would send us VC for one of them.

You can make a case that all of our PG's have short comings. I think you would have more patience with DSJ if the knicks drafted him, there are just as many red flags for DSJ as it is for Frank

There's just no way in hell you can have a pg shooting 30%, and say you can live with that because he plays solid defense.

Trey young is an awful defender for the most part, but you can live with that because he can shoot lights out, penetrate, and has an elite passing ability.

Payton had 5 triple double last season, compared to frank who hasn't recorded a 20 point game in over 150 games, and has 1 double digit assist game in 2 seasons.

Frank is not a starting pg or sg, he's a 22 minute a night utility guy..

knicks1248 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I am a Frank guy. He defends great and he knows how to be a PG. His shooting MUST improve. The thing with Frank is that he has good form and his shots are usually hitting the front of the rim when he misses. IN practice vidoes he hits all his shots, so I am wondering if it is just a mental thing with him in games? Confidence? maybe h needs a sports psychologist?

Of the 3 players, he is the most complete. None of them shoot well enough to give an advantage to one. DSjr can get ot the basket a LITTLE better but the rest go to Frank. Payton has shown to be a decent guy off the bench. Many truple doubles in his resume, so he can be effective. Always a slow starter if I recall.

I would look to move DSjr for a proven shooter or a future draft pick.

The Knicks do not have enough pure shooters on the team.

IMO, Trier and DSJ are redundant and not in a good way. The Knicks should keep one or the other. Relegating either to the towel section of the bench is simply not cost-effective nor good for their careers.

Unless Fizdale is delusional about his commitment to defense then Frankie and Payton have got to be your PGs with whoever is left being the third option when scoring at any cost is necessary.

DSJ has simply not impressed me and, quite frankly, the Mavs wanted him to succeed. How he managed not only to F that up but to also turn himself into a league-wide undesirable trade asset remains a mystery. I'd love to be wrong about this guy but I get red flags popping up everywhere whenever I see his progress.

Trier is another player who I don't think fits well. He's a feelgood story for sure and given a free reign to ISO will get those stat sheets filled. I just don't see how that works on this team assuming we're both playing to win and trying to develop a winning culture. And this by no means is a slam of Trier who likely is a fit in the right system.

Maybe Atlanta would send us VC for one of them.

You can make a case that all of our PG's have short comings. I think you would have more patience with DSJ if the knicks drafted him, there are just as many red flags for DSJ as it is for Frank

There's just no way in hell you can have a pg shooting 30%, and say you can live with that because he plays solid defense.

Trey young is an awful defender for the most part, but you can live with that because he can shoot lights out, penetrate, and has an elite passing ability.

Payton had 5 triple double last season, compared to frank who hasn't recorded a 20 point game in over 150 games, and has 1 double digit assist game in 2 seasons.

Frank is not a starting pg or sg, he's a 22 minute a night utility guy..

I think Young will be exposed when/if he plays in playoffs games. Young is the star of the team. Franck, a utility guy shut down completely Young when he defends him. I would not expect Frank to be paid what Atlanta will likely pay for Young in a few years. Scorers are more easy to find than defenders.