knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Article is stupid. It was a tanking developmental season. You have 15 players, after the season ends then you pick your core that you will continue to develop. They chose M Robinson, Trier, Dotson, DSJr, Knox and Frank. That is 6 players. Robinson progression has been astounding. You see him getting better every game. Trier is a gift from the basketball gods. A free pick. Dotson has shown glimpses. DSJr, Knox and Frank are all on the same boat. It's a make it or break it year this year for them. They should be talking about that. I mean of the players that was released or not re-signed, Kornet was the only one I wanted back. We have very good signings. I wanted KD and another signing and if that didn't happen then we go 3rd tier star and a bunch of short term contracts. They did that. That's the new culture. Mindful of the future and build from within.

Every article that criticize the knicks is stupid..ppl just dont understand...ookay
Everyone is conspired to paint the knicks in a bad way, the media, free agents, other GM's, players.

the point is that we can have an entire new roster next yr and they yr after that, there is very few positives in 20+ win season and no FO will be pressed to keep a 20+ win roster in place...

Fiz going to have to coach his ass off the season

It's stupid because it didn't paint the whole picture. You want your article to be viewed as valid then touch on everything. Cherry picking to advance your agenda is just plain stupid.

You want a puff piece to satisfied you, you have the home bloggers for that.

Espn, Berman, Bondy, Bleecher report, real GM, fox sports, NYT, ect.

If you google knicks and put any media outlet next to it, you will find very similar articles if not worse..

when you start thinking everyone is wrong but you, that's what you called being pretty damn cynical.
Im praying the knicks can turn it around with this group of rentals, but no one really sees it happening, not even most die hards.

I don't want puff or agenda driven pieces. I want real, fact driven articles. A lot of those sources you pointed out aren't in the business of doing. That Berman piece you posted has so many holes in it that stands to stay afloat in the space we call reality. I'm not saying he doesn't make any truthful points. But I will accuse him of willfully neglecting to highlight the entire picture.

well what exactly should have pointed out that would have made a difference and paint a better picture.

He was strictly talking about the culture and what just transpired last season. There isn't much of silver lining in a 17 win season.

Take for instance Fizdale, he said he would use the first 20 or so games to establish a rotation and system, that didn't happen after 82 games, and in the process it really hurt the development IMO.

What I can't confirm was if that came from the FO or was that totally on Fiz

The rotation was not established because we had nothing to rotate.
The FO realized already in January that we have only 6-7 players to keep.
They were already aware that KP is gone and that there are very little chances get any top FA with him out of the picture.
So the goals were naturally shifted to give the players tagged to be retained max exposure and ability to grow.
They tried to grow some assets for trades but the material was to bad to get anything out of it.
Coach and FO are not a miracle workers. They can only do as much as they have available. And Knicks after KP trade became bare bones nothing.
I think the group they were able to assemble as far as young prospects and chip assets is very impressive.
Unfortunately for Fiz he will not be able to show much again this year as tasks are mostly same - keep building.
Next year we may see similar if no bigger turnaround. This is reality. And Fiz signed for it.
He was well aware that it will be lost years for him as successful coach.
KP situations possibly rendered his contract with Knick as totally developmental affair without any hope to became winning coach.
Suck for him. So he need to work his tail of to build a product by the time of his contract ends which will warrant him extension.

newyorknewyork wrote:I am one of Frank's biggest supporters here. But I don't buy the notion that Mudiay "took" Frank's mins. Frank has his opportunity when he took the starting spot from Burke after the first few games. He played very well his first 2 starts the tailed off drastically. If he continued to play well then he would have forced Fizz's hand to play him. Instead Fizz pulled him in order to protect his confidence. Frank played like a kid who lacked any confidence at all after his first 2 starts. I read people sometimes state that Frank should have gotten 30mins a night sink or swim. I can't state if that would have really helped him or not. As when the team was riddled with injuries and he was given the keys he struggled and then got injured. Then again late in the season when the team was hit with the injury bug and he got the start again he got injured after his first game.

.

this would make sense if Fizz didn't keep on running Mudiay out there even when he stunk up the joint. Why did Mudiay have carte blanche? Same with Knox. Never any consequences for those guys.

Frank is destined for a full season of DNP Coaches Decisions in 2020

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Article is stupid. It was a tanking developmental season. You have 15 players, after the season ends then you pick your core that you will continue to develop. They chose M Robinson, Trier, Dotson, DSJr, Knox and Frank. That is 6 players. Robinson progression has been astounding. You see him getting better every game. Trier is a gift from the basketball gods. A free pick. Dotson has shown glimpses. DSJr, Knox and Frank are all on the same boat. It's a make it or break it year this year for them. They should be talking about that. I mean of the players that was released or not re-signed, Kornet was the only one I wanted back. We have very good signings. I wanted KD and another signing and if that didn't happen then we go 3rd tier star and a bunch of short term contracts. They did that. That's the new culture. Mindful of the future and build from within.

Every article that criticize the knicks is stupid..ppl just dont understand...ookay
Everyone is conspired to paint the knicks in a bad way, the media, free agents, other GM's, players.

the point is that we can have an entire new roster next yr and they yr after that, there is very few positives in 20+ win season and no FO will be pressed to keep a 20+ win roster in place...

Fiz going to have to coach his ass off the season

The Knicks brought back 7 players from last year’s team. All of them are second or third year players. The only guy to leave that was intriguing was Kornet. My guess is that 5-6 of the guys brought back this year will be on the team next year. Add RJ, Iggy, Randle and at least one of the free agents and the Knicks will be returning a core of at least ten players. It’s a process but the team appears to be committed to this young group of players.

There is a zero chance of keeping a roster together that loses 50+ game unless they're under contract. Theres no incentive to keep that going

You have to be playing really bad for long stretches to lose that many games and we all know this. Which is why we never resign any of our FA. Not just this yr but for the past 7 yrs.

That goes for fiz to, if he can't level up his players he'll be gone..

Y'all say give him time but how much time did Fisher,Woodson and Jeff get..2 yrs at best. How many yrs did Grunwald get 2, phil 2, Walsh was 3 maybe 4 and we made the playoffs..

Very few good things happen when your losing 50+ and there's going to be a lot of drama and negative press that follows.

Mills record is 48-110 add another 50 losses to that record and a be patient speech

knicks1248 wrote:here's another article from bleecher

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847091-knicks-mess-rozier-to-hornets-barnes-to-kings-and-nba-offseasons-worst-moves#slide5

If the New York Knicks turn around and flip short-term signees Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington and Reggie Bullock for draft assets a few months from now, no harm done.

But if they can't extract value from the bevy of deals they signed this summer, the Knicks will have compounded one crippling disappointment (the failure to even sniff max-level free agents) with another. There were first-rounders to be had this summer, and New York got none of them.

The Memphis Grizzlies hauled one in from the desperate Golden State Warriors, who had to attach a first-rounder to move Andre Iguodala and get under the hard cap. The Brooklyn Nets sent two firsts to the Atlanta Hawks in an Allen Crabbe salary dump. The multi-team swap that sent Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat also redirected Moe Harkless and a first-rounder to the Los Angeles Clippers.

Where were the Knicks when all this was going down? Why the rush to dump eight-figure annual salaries on middling free agents when that money could have been used to take in similarly impactful vets on short deals with assets attached?

There was just so much more to be had if only the Knicks had been patient.

By avoiding longer-term panic signings, New York didn't do maximum damage to its future. But the Knicks absolutely could have utilized all that cap space to greater effect.

Do you really think the Nets would have traded their firsts to the Knicks? Do you really think Pat Riley would insist they include the Knicks (out of all teams with cap space available) as the team to end up with a first and help facilitate the Butler signing?

Do you really think if Perry had concluded the offseason having taken on Iggy's $17mil contract and bought him out (as there's no way he'd play for us) for a 2024 first round pick, and Mo Harkless for what will likely be a late first rounder in the 20+ range, everyone would say: Job well done! We'll give you til 2024 to see where that first round pick ends up! Remember there are no decent FA's next offseason, so if you don't add any decent ones this past offseason, you're stuck for 2 years.

How come the Knicks are literally the ONLY team that had cap space that has gotten slammed for using it to sign FA's? How come all the media spent the run up to the offseason praising the Clips and the Nets for building a culture and trying to win- specifying it as THE reason the landed the big FA's, but now also insist the Knicks shouldn't do that and should instead tank and take on bad contracts for firsts?

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Article is stupid. It was a tanking developmental season. You have 15 players, after the season ends then you pick your core that you will continue to develop. They chose M Robinson, Trier, Dotson, DSJr, Knox and Frank. That is 6 players. Robinson progression has been astounding. You see him getting better every game. Trier is a gift from the basketball gods. A free pick. Dotson has shown glimpses. DSJr, Knox and Frank are all on the same boat. It's a make it or break it year this year for them. They should be talking about that. I mean of the players that was released or not re-signed, Kornet was the only one I wanted back. We have very good signings. I wanted KD and another signing and if that didn't happen then we go 3rd tier star and a bunch of short term contracts. They did that. That's the new culture. Mindful of the future and build from within.

Every article that criticize the knicks is stupid..ppl just dont understand...ookay
Everyone is conspired to paint the knicks in a bad way, the media, free agents, other GM's, players.

the point is that we can have an entire new roster next yr and they yr after that, there is very few positives in 20+ win season and no FO will be pressed to keep a 20+ win roster in place...

Fiz going to have to coach his ass off the season

The Knicks brought back 7 players from last year’s team. All of them are second or third year players. The only guy to leave that was intriguing was Kornet. My guess is that 5-6 of the guys brought back this year will be on the team next year. Add RJ, Iggy, Randle and at least one of the free agents and the Knicks will be returning a core of at least ten players. It’s a process but the team appears to be committed to this young group of players.

There is a zero chance of keeping a roster together that loses 50+ game unless they're under contract. Theres no incentive to keep that going

You have to be playing really bad for long stretches to lose that many games and we all know this. Which is why we never resign any of our FA. Not just this yr but for the past 7 yrs.

That goes for fiz to, if he can't level up his players he'll be gone..

Y'all say give him time but how much time did Fisher,Woodson and Jeff get..2 yrs at best. How many yrs did Grunwald get 2, phil 2, Walsh was 3 maybe 4 and we made the playoffs..

Very few good things happen when your losing 50+ and there's going to be a lot of drama and negative press that follows.

Mills record is 48-110 add another 50 losses to that record and a be patient speech

Team "fails" and guys get fired and your suggesting we keep doing that makes for other problems. While its logical to replace execs who are not winning its also not going to change anyting in the short term unless we attempt what Isiah attempted which was assemble on paper talent.
Change for the sake of change is not productive. So while we can't just say lets get someone who is better, the real question is how will that be? What can that person or group do different and how? Trades? Big money to Tobias Harris types?
After three years of Marks/Atkinson you have something tangable. The team made the playoffs. Process of Trade BroPez for D'angelo was a key driver.
While fatigued by years of mismanagement reality is we are entering season two if the Perry/Fiz combo. Mills was here in the Phil years. We all read he was hired then Phil came in and had full control. Mills was the financial guy. Dolan trusts mills and its why he was "bought back". Im not going to recap all this. If you hate Mills and want to continue to do so, few facts will change your mind. One fact is he hired Perry as GM. He also gutted the then a year later changed the coaching staff. KP broke and the whole plan had to get reworked.

Pointing fingers is one thing, but the instance that was KP is huge. We draft a stud. He performs. He breaks. Demands after 20 months a full max extension and the question becomes did we do the right thing? I don't know. What was so awful about phil and Horny? They pushed back at a Diva. Was it wrong?
Maybe, maybe not.
My opinion is KP was the stud and the all star we had hoped but he broke. If not I think we sign a stud FA this off season had things worked out with him. We wanted him not sign last summer so we'd have 10mm more in cap. We also wanted to see if he came back heathy. He boasted he'd be back in 10 months. We read there was no pressure for him to return. Lets say that's the case and he does return. Have KP, sign Kawhi/healthy Durant and say trade for Paul George. But KP did not return and wanted what he wanted. Next 4 years will tell us if it was the right choice. Dallas had money and nobody went to play with KP and Luka.

Its all easy to say "Get someone who has done this well before" and think it works. No guarantee. Knick have a history of making these types of deals and has not worked. Its like a crash diet. You lose the weight quickly but unless you change many things over a long period of time its not sustainable. The instances you mention are regrettable but they are not correlated to the here and now.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:here's another article from bleecher

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847091-knicks-mess-rozier-to-hornets-barnes-to-kings-and-nba-offseasons-worst-moves#slide5

If the New York Knicks turn around and flip short-term signees Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington and Reggie Bullock for draft assets a few months from now, no harm done.

But if they can't extract value from the bevy of deals they signed this summer, the Knicks will have compounded one crippling disappointment (the failure to even sniff max-level free agents) with another. There were first-rounders to be had this summer, and New York got none of them.

The Memphis Grizzlies hauled one in from the desperate Golden State Warriors, who had to attach a first-rounder to move Andre Iguodala and get under the hard cap. The Brooklyn Nets sent two firsts to the Atlanta Hawks in an Allen Crabbe salary dump. The multi-team swap that sent Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat also redirected Moe Harkless and a first-rounder to the Los Angeles Clippers.

Where were the Knicks when all this was going down? Why the rush to dump eight-figure annual salaries on middling free agents when that money could have been used to take in similarly impactful vets on short deals with assets attached?

There was just so much more to be had if only the Knicks had been patient.

By avoiding longer-term panic signings, New York didn't do maximum damage to its future. But the Knicks absolutely could have utilized all that cap space to greater effect.

Do you really think the Nets would have traded their firsts to the Knicks? Do you really think Pat Riley would insist they include the Knicks (out of all teams with cap space available) as the team to end up with a first and help facilitate the Butler signing?

Do you really think if Perry had concluded the offseason having taken on Iggy's $17mil contract and bought him out (as there's no way he'd play for us) for a 2024 first round pick, and Mo Harkless for what will likely be a late first rounder in the 20+ range, everyone would say: Job well done! We'll give you til 2024 to see where that first round pick ends up! Remember there are no decent FA's next offseason, so if you don't add any decent ones this past offseason, you're stuck for 2 years.

How come the Knicks are literally the ONLY team that had cap space that has gotten slammed for using it to sign FA's? How come all the media spent the run up to the offseason praising the Clips and the Nets for building a culture and trying to win- specifying it as THE reason the landed the big FA's, but now also insist the Knicks shouldn't do that and should instead tank and take on bad contracts for firsts?

You have to win before ppl take you serious.

When you talk about a loser, that could be a friend, a family member, a co worker or whoever, there's not going to be many good things to say about them.

You only get real respect when you win

A pretty generic(seeing a trend) reply that doesn’t address anything Smackeddog stated.

What's to elaborate on, the media and all else trashes the knicks because we are perennial losers.

In what area have we been good at, drafting 2nd round picks?

We are perceived as a bad team with a losing culture and a revolving door, there's no way to sugar coat that

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:here's another article from bleecher

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847091-knicks-mess-rozier-to-hornets-barnes-to-kings-and-nba-offseasons-worst-moves#slide5

If the New York Knicks turn around and flip short-term signees Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington and Reggie Bullock for draft assets a few months from now, no harm done.

But if they can't extract value from the bevy of deals they signed this summer, the Knicks will have compounded one crippling disappointment (the failure to even sniff max-level free agents) with another. There were first-rounders to be had this summer, and New York got none of them.

The Memphis Grizzlies hauled one in from the desperate Golden State Warriors, who had to attach a first-rounder to move Andre Iguodala and get under the hard cap. The Brooklyn Nets sent two firsts to the Atlanta Hawks in an Allen Crabbe salary dump. The multi-team swap that sent Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat also redirected Moe Harkless and a first-rounder to the Los Angeles Clippers.

Where were the Knicks when all this was going down? Why the rush to dump eight-figure annual salaries on middling free agents when that money could have been used to take in similarly impactful vets on short deals with assets attached?

There was just so much more to be had if only the Knicks had been patient.

By avoiding longer-term panic signings, New York didn't do maximum damage to its future. But the Knicks absolutely could have utilized all that cap space to greater effect.

Do you really think the Nets would have traded their firsts to the Knicks? Do you really think Pat Riley would insist they include the Knicks (out of all teams with cap space available) as the team to end up with a first and help facilitate the Butler signing?

Do you really think if Perry had concluded the offseason having taken on Iggy's $17mil contract and bought him out (as there's no way he'd play for us) for a 2024 first round pick, and Mo Harkless for what will likely be a late first rounder in the 20+ range, everyone would say: Job well done! We'll give you til 2024 to see where that first round pick ends up! Remember there are no decent FA's next offseason, so if you don't add any decent ones this past offseason, you're stuck for 2 years.

How come the Knicks are literally the ONLY team that had cap space that has gotten slammed for using it to sign FA's? How come all the media spent the run up to the offseason praising the Clips and the Nets for building a culture and trying to win- specifying it as THE reason the landed the big FA's, but now also insist the Knicks shouldn't do that and should instead tank and take on bad contracts for firsts?

You have to win before ppl take you serious.

When you talk about a loser, that could be a friend, a family member, a co worker or whoever, there's not going to be many good things to say about them.

You only get real respect when you win

A pretty generic(seeing a trend) reply that doesn’t address anything Smackeddog stated.

What's to elaborate on, the media and all else trashes the knicks because we are perennial losers.

In what area have we been good at, drafting 2nd round picks?

We are perceived as a bad team with a losing culture and a revolving door, there's no way to sugar coat that

Knicks signed young veteran FAs who were upgrades over the players they let go. They did this over eating contracts for future picks. They did this in order to attempt to "win" and get off of the tank path after acquiring enough prospects to fall back on.

You are promoting an article that is claiming the Knicks should have held on to inferior players? And another one claiming they should have continued to tank and acquired more draft assets? Mudiay, Herzonja & Vonleh were all let go by their previous teams. Knicks tried to see if they can land lightning in a bottle off former lotto talents at relatively low cost. Denver, Portland, Orlando who all made playoffs this past season weren't able to develop these guys to their full potential either and all except Portland invested premium capital on them.

Trashing the Knicks because they are perennial losers doesn't command any respect in reguards to journalism. A regular forum poster can write on this level.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:here's another article from bleecher

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847091-knicks-mess-rozier-to-hornets-barnes-to-kings-and-nba-offseasons-worst-moves#slide5

If the New York Knicks turn around and flip short-term signees Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington and Reggie Bullock for draft assets a few months from now, no harm done.

But if they can't extract value from the bevy of deals they signed this summer, the Knicks will have compounded one crippling disappointment (the failure to even sniff max-level free agents) with another. There were first-rounders to be had this summer, and New York got none of them.

The Memphis Grizzlies hauled one in from the desperate Golden State Warriors, who had to attach a first-rounder to move Andre Iguodala and get under the hard cap. The Brooklyn Nets sent two firsts to the Atlanta Hawks in an Allen Crabbe salary dump. The multi-team swap that sent Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat also redirected Moe Harkless and a first-rounder to the Los Angeles Clippers.

Where were the Knicks when all this was going down? Why the rush to dump eight-figure annual salaries on middling free agents when that money could have been used to take in similarly impactful vets on short deals with assets attached?

There was just so much more to be had if only the Knicks had been patient.

By avoiding longer-term panic signings, New York didn't do maximum damage to its future. But the Knicks absolutely could have utilized all that cap space to greater effect.

Do you really think the Nets would have traded their firsts to the Knicks? Do you really think Pat Riley would insist they include the Knicks (out of all teams with cap space available) as the team to end up with a first and help facilitate the Butler signing?

Do you really think if Perry had concluded the offseason having taken on Iggy's $17mil contract and bought him out (as there's no way he'd play for us) for a 2024 first round pick, and Mo Harkless for what will likely be a late first rounder in the 20+ range, everyone would say: Job well done! We'll give you til 2024 to see where that first round pick ends up! Remember there are no decent FA's next offseason, so if you don't add any decent ones this past offseason, you're stuck for 2 years.

How come the Knicks are literally the ONLY team that had cap space that has gotten slammed for using it to sign FA's? How come all the media spent the run up to the offseason praising the Clips and the Nets for building a culture and trying to win- specifying it as THE reason the landed the big FA's, but now also insist the Knicks shouldn't do that and should instead tank and take on bad contracts for firsts?

You have to win before ppl take you serious.

When you talk about a loser, that could be a friend, a family member, a co worker or whoever, there's not going to be many good things to say about them.

You only get real respect when you win

A pretty generic(seeing a trend) reply that doesn’t address anything Smackeddog stated.

What's to elaborate on, the media and all else trashes the knicks because we are perennial losers.

In what area have we been good at, drafting 2nd round picks?

We are perceived as a bad team with a losing culture and a revolving door, there's no way to sugar coat that

Knicks signed young veteran FAs who were upgrades over the players they let go. They did this over eating contracts for future picks. They did this in order to attempt to "win" and get off of the tank path after acquiring enough prospects to fall back on.

You are promoting an article that is claiming the Knicks should have held on to inferior players? And another one claiming they should have continued to tank and acquired more draft assets? Mudiay, Herzonja & Vonleh were all let go by their previous teams. Knicks tried to see if they can land lightning in a bottle off former lotto talents at relatively low cost. Denver, Portland, Orlando who all made playoffs this past season weren't able to develop these guys to their full potential either and all except Portland invested premium capital on them.

Trashing the Knicks because they are perennial losers doesn't command any respect in reguards to journalism. A regular forum poster can write on this level.

We have many posters on UK who can write better material.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:here's another article from bleecher

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847091-knicks-mess-rozier-to-hornets-barnes-to-kings-and-nba-offseasons-worst-moves#slide5

If the New York Knicks turn around and flip short-term signees Bobby Portis, Taj Gibson, Marcus Morris, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington and Reggie Bullock for draft assets a few months from now, no harm done.

But if they can't extract value from the bevy of deals they signed this summer, the Knicks will have compounded one crippling disappointment (the failure to even sniff max-level free agents) with another. There were first-rounders to be had this summer, and New York got none of them.

The Memphis Grizzlies hauled one in from the desperate Golden State Warriors, who had to attach a first-rounder to move Andre Iguodala and get under the hard cap. The Brooklyn Nets sent two firsts to the Atlanta Hawks in an Allen Crabbe salary dump. The multi-team swap that sent Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat also redirected Moe Harkless and a first-rounder to the Los Angeles Clippers.

Where were the Knicks when all this was going down? Why the rush to dump eight-figure annual salaries on middling free agents when that money could have been used to take in similarly impactful vets on short deals with assets attached?

There was just so much more to be had if only the Knicks had been patient.

By avoiding longer-term panic signings, New York didn't do maximum damage to its future. But the Knicks absolutely could have utilized all that cap space to greater effect.

Do you really think the Nets would have traded their firsts to the Knicks? Do you really think Pat Riley would insist they include the Knicks (out of all teams with cap space available) as the team to end up with a first and help facilitate the Butler signing?

Do you really think if Perry had concluded the offseason having taken on Iggy's $17mil contract and bought him out (as there's no way he'd play for us) for a 2024 first round pick, and Mo Harkless for what will likely be a late first rounder in the 20+ range, everyone would say: Job well done! We'll give you til 2024 to see where that first round pick ends up! Remember there are no decent FA's next offseason, so if you don't add any decent ones this past offseason, you're stuck for 2 years.

How come the Knicks are literally the ONLY team that had cap space that has gotten slammed for using it to sign FA's? How come all the media spent the run up to the offseason praising the Clips and the Nets for building a culture and trying to win- specifying it as THE reason the landed the big FA's, but now also insist the Knicks shouldn't do that and should instead tank and take on bad contracts for firsts?

You have to win before ppl take you serious.

When you talk about a loser, that could be a friend, a family member, a co worker or whoever, there's not going to be many good things to say about them.

You only get real respect when you win

A pretty generic(seeing a trend) reply that doesn’t address anything Smackeddog stated.

What's to elaborate on, the media and all else trashes the knicks because we are perennial losers.

In what area have we been good at, drafting 2nd round picks?

We are perceived as a bad team with a losing culture and a revolving door, there's no way to sugar coat that

Digest we did well with KP. By injury, by character and by caution we could not max him.

forget Mills and PHil. Just look at KP objectively? All star talent, some anemic not serious condition but was fatigued. He did break. Will have not played for 20 months and was holding team hostage. All unfortunate, but what you have done?
Frank was 8th pick. Other than Donovan at 14, no other franchise changing talent was that obvious at 9-10-11 etc.

Make no mistake, losing sucks. We are all hating it.