knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Another bad article that seems to be capitalizing on getting clicks by criticizing the Knicks. The article is about all 30 teams but the intro is all about the Knicks struggles. Also, my first impression was that they were considering only prospects under 25 that were drafted by the team. Randle was not considered one of the Knicks best under 25 players and wasn’t even mentioned. Not sure why he was left out when D’Angelo Russell was included for the WRriors. Also, not sure why Trier wasn’t mentioned. Trier was 45, 39 and 80.
I should know not to a read an article about all 30 teams that starts off mentioning the Knicks missed on Zion. Someone mentioned it early, it takes no effort to spew the same narrative.

you make it sound as though the entire article is about the Knicks... they used it as their opener. And they didn't mention a lot of under-25 guys. They mentioned Frank and Knox because the former suck and the latter had a **** year. They praised Mitch. I feel like you didn't read the article, because they didn't mention really anyone for Charlotte. They shat on Kuzma. They shat on the Wiz. Didn't mention anything about LAC, etc. It's like a few paragraphs per team at max

DiD any of our young guys get better,or showed any growth as the yr went on. Did they show that they were a good fit for our system..oh wait.. we had no system.

Why didn't we keep Mudiay
why didn't we keep Noah V
why didn't we keep Mario
why didn't we keep burke..who basically took minutes from frank

You can't deny that THJ looked better Playing for The hawks

You think if anyone of these kids showed significant growth or consistency we wouldn't have kept them?

I can sum our development system in 3 words.."KEEP BEING AGGRESSIVE", which translates to keep shooting, keep going 1 on 5.

The only thing we accomplish last season was getting the 3rd pick.

What did we learn about the coach, the defense, the offense, the strategy, most of our young and old players looked lost and bewildered the entire season, and took steps back.

they were rentals that were the equivalent of lottery tickets.

THJ was average in his contract year and we overpaid

I think the article is about this year's young guys not last season's...

So other than that I am not sure how to respond because it really has nothing to do with the article or any of the other comments

But rankings are based on stats,and what you have done in the recent past, they surely are not basing future stats.

I brought those guys up because even though they were rentals, they were young guys who were lottery picks 2 to 3 yrs ago..which is not long.

I guess I had High hopes that we would be able to level them up

Frank sucks as of now. He can’t score or stay on the court. DSJR is injury prone, he left the MAVS for personal reasons because he couldn’t get along with his coach, his BB IQ is very low. Kevin Knox is in space and can’t walk without traveling isn’t aggressive and doesn’t do anything well right now. His shot has promise, but he is a below average player. Trier has talent and athleticism, but does he get along with teammates?

Which leaves Mitch whose fantastic and I believe will be one of the better defensive guys in the league. He’s a special talent. Which is what they said.

Summer league is summer league, but it’s on the table that RJ isn’t an elite athlete doesn’t have explosion and has a shot that needs a lot of work. He does have some playmaking abilities and poise which will serve him well.

Could they have moved the Knicks up a couple spots, yes. But we were the worst team in the league and the player development is very questionable. As is our front office rushing to fill out a roster of untradable role players that are going to take away minutes from the young guys we need to play.

Jmpasq wrote:Forget the rankings and focus on this
Frank Ntilikina, who has the worst career shooting percentage among active players (minimum 750 attempts)

The eye test told me Kevin Knox was the worst player in the NBA last year getting regular minutes and the numbers back it up
Kevin Knox, who has the second-worst career shooting percentage among active players.
He projects as the worst NBA player over the next five seasons, with a befuddling minus-11.6 WAR.
Out of 120 qualifying players last season, Knox had the worst true-shooting percentage.
The NBA's third-worst defender, per RPM; tallied 39 percent more turnovers than assists; and rated near the bottom of basically every advanced statistical leaderboard on Basketball-Reference.

Look I like we are trying to build through the draft but we will never be good if we piss away our lottery picks.

Well then i'd say a little wider perspective may be helpful. After all we are talking about -
-the guy who was the youngest rookie in the league - just turned 19 before the season started.
-was still very skinny. If u saw him in person he looked like a kid. Hadn't come close to growing into his body yet.
-was one of 3 players to win rookie-of-the-month all season. Other 2 being of course luka doncic and trae young.
-during that month shot 50% TS and 38% 3's, 17 ppg, 6 rpg, 2 apg.

Of course the wheels came off hard after that. He had some really rough stretches and a coach whose mandate seemed to be to give the young players as much pt as possible and lose as many games as possible didn't rein him in.

I suspect we'll see some changes this year. After all the team did bring in iggy braz, morris, randle, bullock, gibson, maybe wooten. I don't think knox is going to be given such severe free rein again.

jazz74 wrote:eh, I will take it with a grain of salt. any type of supposed metric/ data system to predict is very tricky. certain players can make huge jumps that were not predicted to be all stars like Oladipo and paul George. we will see what happens when the season starts. our player development has to earn their paycheck as well as our coaching staff.

Oladipo averaged 18 4 4 a game his 2nd year. I mean he wasn't the worst player in the NBA. He was better than almost everyone on are roster now. Knox has to get a lot better just to be average

BigDaddyG wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27239033/nba-offseason-survey-led-kawhi-clippers-dominate-chatter
These "Haha, the Knicks signed five forwards takes are tiresome. Again, another tired take. Yes, all the players we signed play power forward. Some of them can also play on the wing and some are better at the center position. I know we suck, but there are plenty of legitimate takes to explain why. This anonymous "executives" are killing us for doing a proper rebuild. I would take all of our signings over the Hornets/ Rozier deal. Yet, that signing continues to get a pass. ESPN's NBA analysis has turned to crap outside of Lowe and Pelton.

The criticism of the Knicks came on multiple fronts. First, after they struck out on superstar signings, they settled for middling players, rather than using their cap space to take on bad contracts and add draft assets.

"Some people were like they did a good job keeping their powder dry, but I don't even like [Julius] Randle, so I don't get what they did," an Eastern Conference executive said. "I guess it was better than spending $80 million on two free agents. But that's like saying you're eating healthier because you didn't go to McDonald's for lunch and Burger King for dinner.

"Yes, you're eating healthier -- but only because you couldn't eat worse."

Additionally, the Knicks were knocked for signing several players -- Randle, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis and Marcus Morris -- who all play power forward. The glut of big men could potentially stunt the growth of last year's No. 9 overall pick, Kevin Knox, and second-team all-rookie selection Mitchell Robinson, who plays center.

"The Knicks' five-big attack is confusing to me," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said.

What is the proper way to rebuild, because from what I see in this Era of basketball, it isn't the same as it was 10/15 yrs ago. Not with the way players are taking full control.

players are forcing their way off teams more than ever before, and they are more likely to hook up with their friends..

Who knows, 3 yrs from now RJ may want to play with Ja or Zion, dudes are leaving winning situation, losing situations...

There's no one way to build a championship team

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27239033/nba-offseason-survey-led-kawhi-clippers-dominate-chatter
These "Haha, the Knicks signed five forwards takes are tiresome. Again, another tired take. Yes, all the players we signed play power forward. Some of them can also play on the wing and some are better at the center position. I know we suck, but there are plenty of legitimate takes to explain why. This anonymous "executives" are killing us for doing a proper rebuild. I would take all of our signings over the Hornets/ Rozier deal. Yet, that signing continues to get a pass. ESPN's NBA analysis has turned to crap outside of Lowe and Pelton.

The criticism of the Knicks came on multiple fronts. First, after they struck out on superstar signings, they settled for middling players, rather than using their cap space to take on bad contracts and add draft assets.

"Some people were like they did a good job keeping their powder dry, but I don't even like [Julius] Randle, so I don't get what they did," an Eastern Conference executive said. "I guess it was better than spending $80 million on two free agents. But that's like saying you're eating healthier because you didn't go to McDonald's for lunch and Burger King for dinner.

"Yes, you're eating healthier -- but only because you couldn't eat worse."

Additionally, the Knicks were knocked for signing several players -- Randle, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis and Marcus Morris -- who all play power forward. The glut of big men could potentially stunt the growth of last year's No. 9 overall pick, Kevin Knox, and second-team all-rookie selection Mitchell Robinson, who plays center.

"The Knicks' five-big attack is confusing to me," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said.

What is the proper way to rebuild, because from what I see in this Era of basketball, it isn't the same as it was 10/15 yrs ago. Not with the way players are taking full control.

players are forcing their way off teams more than ever before, and they are more likely to hook up with their friends..

Who knows, 3 yrs from now RJ may want to play with Ja or Zion, dudes are leaving winning situation, losing situations...

There's no one way to build a championship team

You’re right there is no one way to build. But i can say one way is not “tanking”, especially once you have a core group of guys you’re comfortable with. New Orleans didn’t tank to get Zion. Once you have a group of good young talent like we do it’s time to win. Sign guys who can help you can build up the culture of winning. Cap space is even less relevant now. Miami has none and still convinced Butler to force a trade there. Miami wasn’t a good team, but their culture appeals to guys. How do we become appealing in that way ? It will take player development and vets who enjoy being here. The only issue we have is we may have signed too many guys, whereas good vets won’t be in the rotation. That isn’t great for the culture. But hopefully these guys can see a real difference and it gets around the league. The agents definitely bought in, but we haven’t clicked with the players yet. Now that the Knicks have a core group of young guys and a core group of vets it’s time to turn up the heat and start winning some games and get some positive vibes, similar to what the nets did this year.

Exactly, I do not want to hear anything other than our Goal is to make the playoffs (whenever the FO does decide to address the Off seasons move).

I don't even consider this a young core because this could be Frank, Trier and Dotson's last season as a Knick, and none of the other young guys look like stars (yet), not to mention none of them look untouchable.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27239033/nba-offseason-survey-led-kawhi-clippers-dominate-chatter
These "Haha, the Knicks signed five forwards takes are tiresome. Again, another tired take. Yes, all the players we signed play power forward. Some of them can also play on the wing and some are better at the center position. I know we suck, but there are plenty of legitimate takes to explain why. This anonymous "executives" are killing us for doing a proper rebuild. I would take all of our signings over the Hornets/ Rozier deal. Yet, that signing continues to get a pass. ESPN's NBA analysis has turned to crap outside of Lowe and Pelton.

The criticism of the Knicks came on multiple fronts. First, after they struck out on superstar signings, they settled for middling players, rather than using their cap space to take on bad contracts and add draft assets.

"Some people were like they did a good job keeping their powder dry, but I don't even like [Julius] Randle, so I don't get what they did," an Eastern Conference executive said. "I guess it was better than spending $80 million on two free agents. But that's like saying you're eating healthier because you didn't go to McDonald's for lunch and Burger King for dinner.

"Yes, you're eating healthier -- but only because you couldn't eat worse."

Additionally, the Knicks were knocked for signing several players -- Randle, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis and Marcus Morris -- who all play power forward. The glut of big men could potentially stunt the growth of last year's No. 9 overall pick, Kevin Knox, and second-team all-rookie selection Mitchell Robinson, who plays center.

"The Knicks' five-big attack is confusing to me," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said.

What is the proper way to rebuild, because from what I see in this Era of basketball, it isn't the same as it was 10/15 yrs ago. Not with the way players are taking full control.

players are forcing their way off teams more than ever before, and they are more likely to hook up with their friends..

Who knows, 3 yrs from now RJ may want to play with Ja or Zion, dudes are leaving winning situation, losing situations...

There's no one way to build a championship team

You’re right there is no one way to build. But i can say one way is not “tanking”, especially once you have a core group of guys you’re comfortable with. New Orleans didn’t tank to get Zion. Once you have a group of good young talent like we do it’s time to win. Sign guys who can help you can build up the culture of winning. Cap space is even less relevant now. Miami has none and still convinced Butler to force a trade there. Miami wasn’t a good team, but their culture appeals to guys. How do we become appealing in that way ? It will take player development and vets who enjoy being here. The only issue we have is we may have signed too many guys, whereas good vets won’t be in the rotation. That isn’t great for the culture. But hopefully these guys can see a real difference and it gets around the league. The agents definitely bought in, but we haven’t clicked with the players yet. Now that the Knicks have a core group of young guys and a core group of vets it’s time to turn up the heat and start winning some games and get some positive vibes, similar to what the nets did this year.

Feel like you just put out some exception examples in Zion and Bulter. NO didn't tank - or did they by not making the playoffs and limiting AD for part of the season? They got EXTREMELY lucky and maybe got a favor from the NBA front office; extreme example and odds says that it probably won't happen again.

Is Butler an anomaly? If he was 26 I am agree with you about culture and a good signing and whatnot. Dude wanted a full max; he is going to be 30 with a TON of miles on him. Is he going to last to 34 like LeBron or crash and burn more like Luol Deng? Feel like Miami and Butler were both in desperate situations and maybe it'll work out and maybe it won't

Agree about butler. Just using as an example of a guy going where he wants and getting max despite them not having cap space.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27239033/nba-offseason-survey-led-kawhi-clippers-dominate-chatter
These "Haha, the Knicks signed five forwards takes are tiresome. Again, another tired take. Yes, all the players we signed play power forward. Some of them can also play on the wing and some are better at the center position. I know we suck, but there are plenty of legitimate takes to explain why. This anonymous "executives" are killing us for doing a proper rebuild. I would take all of our signings over the Hornets/ Rozier deal. Yet, that signing continues to get a pass. ESPN's NBA analysis has turned to crap outside of Lowe and Pelton.

The criticism of the Knicks came on multiple fronts. First, after they struck out on superstar signings, they settled for middling players, rather than using their cap space to take on bad contracts and add draft assets.

"Some people were like they did a good job keeping their powder dry, but I don't even like [Julius] Randle, so I don't get what they did," an Eastern Conference executive said. "I guess it was better than spending $80 million on two free agents. But that's like saying you're eating healthier because you didn't go to McDonald's for lunch and Burger King for dinner.

"Yes, you're eating healthier -- but only because you couldn't eat worse."

Additionally, the Knicks were knocked for signing several players -- Randle, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis and Marcus Morris -- who all play power forward. The glut of big men could potentially stunt the growth of last year's No. 9 overall pick, Kevin Knox, and second-team all-rookie selection Mitchell Robinson, who plays center.

"The Knicks' five-big attack is confusing to me," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said.

What is the proper way to rebuild, because from what I see in this Era of basketball, it isn't the same as it was 10/15 yrs ago. Not with the way players are taking full control.

players are forcing their way off teams more than ever before, and they are more likely to hook up with their friends..

Who knows, 3 yrs from now RJ may want to play with Ja or Zion, dudes are leaving winning situation, losing situations...

There's no one way to build a championship team

You’re right there is no one way to build. But i can say one way is not “tanking”, especially once you have a core group of guys you’re comfortable with. New Orleans didn’t tank to get Zion. Once you have a group of good young talent like we do it’s time to win. Sign guys who can help you can build up the culture of winning. Cap space is even less relevant now. Miami has none and still convinced Butler to force a trade there. Miami wasn’t a good team, but their culture appeals to guys. How do we become appealing in that way ? It will take player development and vets who enjoy being here. The only issue we have is we may have signed too many guys, whereas good vets won’t be in the rotation. That isn’t great for the culture. But hopefully these guys can see a real difference and it gets around the league. The agents definitely bought in, but we haven’t clicked with the players yet. Now that the Knicks have a core group of young guys and a core group of vets it’s time to turn up the heat and start winning some games and get some positive vibes, similar to what the nets did this year.

Exactly, I do not want to hear anything other than our Goal is to make the playoffs (whenever the FO does decide to address the Off seasons move).

I don't even consider this a young core because this could be Frank, Trier and Dotson's last season as a Knick, and none of the other young guys look like stars (yet), not to mention none of them look untouchable.

Robinson and Barrett are our 2 most important pieces. They are the true core at age 21 and 19. Knox and Smith are wild cards. Randle is wait and see I guess. I don’t think anyone else matters. We need to hit on Robinson and Barrett though. They need to be our version of Mitchell and Gobert.

Knox played well, and consistently enough to win rookie of the month, before he hit the rookie wall. Got his stamina back by the end of the season, and put up.solid numbers. The writer just spit out some raw numbers without providing context.

Did not see a mention of Smith jr, in the article, which shows how thorough that review was. If you add DSjrs name to the list, the sum is a better, deeper core than billed.

knicks1248 wrote:There's no one way to build a championship team

There is only one way to build the asset base to build a team though.

That's through the draft.

You either need

A) Draft picks to trade
B) Young players with their implied Bird Rights to trade to get other players, which are best acquired through the draft
C) Or draft capital to dump contracts to get a possible high end FA
D) Or draft capital to build AT COST CONTROL around your elite guys if you manage to get one in FA or trade

A drafted young player who looks like a breakout is worth more than volume of picks ( which will tend to be low in the near future if you do nab a high end FA)

The Clippers traded for Chris Paul

They traded several young players they got in previous drafts to do it. They were able to surround Paul with existing players acquired through previous drafts that didn't end up in the trade itself.

You sometimes have a point, but you rarely have any kind of context involved.