Jmpasq wrote:Is it just me or is there a lack of up and coming star point guards under 25 right now.

Impossible! We have 4 of them ourselves

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:I can see the Knicks clear space for Giannis only to not meet with him.

some view the future with rose colored glasses, yours are **** stained.

That’s what the Knicks keep selling their fan base rose colored glasses. We been doing this f’ing dance for 20 years now if you’re still wearing rose colored glasses God Bless you guys.

And for 20 years you still taking the bait? Don’t worry about the fans, most will, but what about you? You still gullible to buy the media hype? It shifted right to Giannis! Two years pin hope on it? He likely resigns. The trade thing is a double jeopardy problem for teams with these high prices. He wants to go to a team to win but it dumps the future in a trade. This can be a problem.
Most fans just want the “win”. Well, what about the years after? They matter.

Lamelo Ball
Bradley Beal
Giannis
Randle
Robinson

2021 pick/Lonzo Ball
Trier
Rj Barrett
Knox
2021 pick

Knicks have 4 all star caliber players in the starting lineup surrounded by lottery talent. 2021-22 NBA champions. Who objects?

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:I can see the Knicks clear space for Giannis only to not meet with him.

some view the future with rose colored glasses, yours are **** stained.

That’s what the Knicks keep selling their fan base rose colored glasses. We been doing this f’ing dance for 20 years now if you’re still wearing rose colored glasses God Bless you guys.

And for 20 years you still taking the bait? Don’t worry about the fans, most will, but what about you? You still gullible to buy the media hype? It shifted right to Giannis! Two years pin hope on it? He likely resigns. The trade thing is a double jeopardy problem for teams with these high prices. He wants to go to a team to win but it dumps the future in a trade. This can be a problem.
Most fans just want the “win”. Well, what about the years after? They matter.

Bait? Bait is for suckers. I’m a realist. I tell it like it is and you guys can’t handle the truth. They throwing lemons at you guys and you’re gladly making lemonade with it. In the mean time while you sip on that lemonade they are changing the teams timeline.

These idiots are adding players that are going to one destroy player development and to boot these are not the star players that others covet to play with. How are you going to develop talent when they keep throwing a monkey wrench in the development process.

Nalod you can make a thousand and one excuses for the Knicks as an organization, but I’m not buying what they are selling. Media hype if you recall I’m the one who told everyone there will be no big free agents. So what hype am I buying into? I’m telling you these F’ ups don’t know what they are doing and you will quickly find out for yourself. I give it a little less than 6 months.

You tell it like it is? Maybe your more "Telling it like it was....."
Your looking a whole new approach and superimposing the past. Its easy. I get it. I have hope that a different approach will lead to different results. KP got hurt, it set us back 2 years. That sucked btw!

Your here to tell us how it is? If your not telling us anyting new, why are you doing this? I can give reasons for hope, your like some miserable "Drunk Uncle" who thinks they are doing us a favor. You think we don't know the past? You don't think we understand win-losses?
You think we have not looked at Mills closely?

What yoru missing is I don't decide a thing. Im not hiring Mills or some how confirming him? No, IM just looking at how things are being done vs how it used to be. If you don't see a difference then that's on you. You want results. So do the rest of us. But we don't want short cuts anymore.

Do you not understand? All the moves made by management this past year is all about a short cut. Did you not understand the creation of cap space was for a short cut. Do you not understand that the youth movement will culminate into a trade that will result in a short cut. Do not understand the Knicks rarely if ever give second contracts to their draft picks. This is not the past it is the present management as well.

I know what you want and I want the same winning. But nothing this management is doing is about winning.

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:I can see the Knicks clear space for Giannis only to not meet with him.

some view the future with rose colored glasses, yours are **** stained.

That’s what the Knicks keep selling their fan base rose colored glasses. We been doing this f’ing dance for 20 years now if you’re still wearing rose colored glasses God Bless you guys.

And for 20 years you still taking the bait? Don’t worry about the fans, most will, but what about you? You still gullible to buy the media hype? It shifted right to Giannis! Two years pin hope on it? He likely resigns. The trade thing is a double jeopardy problem for teams with these high prices. He wants to go to a team to win but it dumps the future in a trade. This can be a problem.
Most fans just want the “win”. Well, what about the years after? They matter.

Bait? Bait is for suckers. I’m a realist. I tell it like it is and you guys can’t handle the truth. They throwing lemons at you guys and you’re gladly making lemonade with it. In the mean time while you sip on that lemonade they are changing the teams timeline.

These idiots are adding players that are going to one destroy player development and to boot these are not the star players that others covet to play with. How are you going to develop talent when they keep throwing a monkey wrench in the development process.

Nalod you can make a thousand and one excuses for the Knicks as an organization, but I’m not buying what they are selling. Media hype if you recall I’m the one who told everyone there will be no big free agents. So what hype am I buying into? I’m telling you these F’ ups don’t know what they are doing and you will quickly find out for yourself. I give it a little less than 6 months.

You tell it like it is? Maybe your more "Telling it like it was....."
Your looking a whole new approach and superimposing the past. Its easy. I get it. I have hope that a different approach will lead to different results. KP got hurt, it set us back 2 years. That sucked btw!

Your here to tell us how it is? If your not telling us anyting new, why are you doing this? I can give reasons for hope, your like some miserable "Drunk Uncle" who thinks they are doing us a favor. You think we don't know the past? You don't think we understand win-losses?
You think we have not looked at Mills closely?

What yoru missing is I don't decide a thing. Im not hiring Mills or some how confirming him? No, IM just looking at how things are being done vs how it used to be. If you don't see a difference then that's on you. You want results. So do the rest of us. But we don't want short cuts anymore.

Do you not understand? All the moves made by management this past year is all about a short cut. Did you not understand the creation of cap space was for a short cut. Do you not understand that the youth movement will culminate into a trade that will result in a short cut. Do not understand the Knicks rarely if ever give second contracts to their draft picks. This is not the past it is the present management as well.

I know what you want and I want the same winning. But nothing this management is doing is about winning.

You have your theory. WE rarely drafted teenagers. Ariza is a good example. Do you equate Isiah Thomas regime to Scott Perry?
If the past repeats itself then you are correct. Im just looking at the evidence we can see, not what is instinctive due to past performance.
We leverage our youth prematurely into starphucks I'll be angry. Your already there. I don't understand that. But its your choice.

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:Don't even do this to yourselves. Giannes loves playing in a small market and has no desire for the big city and big market thing so i really can't see him leaving in free agency. I guess anything can happen but i really don't see him leaving the Bucks.

They said the same thing about Durant. They said the same thing about Kawhi. They said the same thing about LeBron, to a lesser extent. Since that point, they've each found themselves onto 2 other teams. They are no longer options for us....Giannis, however, will be fair game. And with the Bucks commiting long-term money to marginal, aging talents, they aren't going to be any better than what they've been. That's a recipe for a disgruntled superstar.

Those are all bad comparisons to Giannes and how much he's already been outspoken about wanting to stay a Buck and stay in Milwaukee. By the way when did they say Lebron would never leave Clev and KD would never leave OKC or GSW and who are they? Because i'm talking about Giannes himself talking about his love for Milwaukee not what the media have to say because they're always wrong about players and where they want to stay or play. I also think these international players have a much different outlook than the american players have.

Like i said in my post, anything can happen so it wouldn't shock me if he did leave in two years if the Bucks get worse as a team each year which could happen but the east is so weak i'm thinking they'll be right there in the top 3-4 each of the next two years.

I'll agree that Kawhi has never been on record stating his affinity for SAS but LeBron and Durant definitely have for Cleveland and Oklahoma, respectively. We only found out LeBron's reservations about CLE until he left to MIA i.e. he's "actually from Akron" and that people from Cleveland looked down on people from there.

At the end of the day, circumstances and people change; and I think it's a little naive to think that a guy that wants to be the best player in the league will stay in MIL for the rest of his career especially at the pace these superteams are forming.

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Would rather develop the young core until 2021, and sign Giannis as an FA. If we traded for him, and the supporting cast was meh, he could still walk. Unless Knicks show they have a solid
foundation, it will be tough to keep great players, or just very good ones.

I don't think the best-case scenario of our core would mesh with Giannis. I doubt the best-case scenario of our core will even mesh with each other, lol. We have too many guys that are ball-dominant and that get tunnel-vision for this to trend positively.

I know that RJ Barrett, in particular, is the shiny new toy for us but I think he epitomizes this issue and will only serve to exasperate it. For context, he attempted nearly TWICE the shots Zion did in college (702 vs 435) despite Zion being vastly more talented AND vastly more efficient (43% va 68%). And with him having been born with the basketball equivalent of a silver spoon in his mouth, having access to the training staff's of professional athletes and mentorship, I doubt his game changes beyond being an inefficient, iso-scorer/stat stuffer. Guys like Barrett require you to run nearly everything through them for them to maintain "value" (e.g. DeMarr Derozan or Rudy Gay), which, in turn, handicaps the success of the team in the process, since defenses can cue in on those players in the playoffs. But with a Giannis on the team, those guys become relegated to role player status and that typically hasn't worked well for their ilk in the past (see Rudy Gay when the Grizzlies got good; Russell Westbrook with anyone).

But to a small market team like the Bucks, I could easily see them taking these guys just to avoid losing Giannis for nothing and to keep attendence up. With a legitimate talent like Giannis, they are only counterproductive, which forces us to build a team of free agents.

Its waaaay too soon to say that a rook after his first pro game, (and the rest of this young core) cannot mesh with any star. Unless its a chemistry issue , like with Irving. You're following the exact playbook thats given the Knicks the rep that it has with the rest of the league over the last 20 years or so. These are talented players. Some will stick, some wont but will still have value. We need to find out which is which before making big deals, let alone gut a roster for a player who will be an FA soon after. Believe its been proven over and over until ownership and mgmt demonstrates they have their act together, attracting or keeping elite players will be a problem. You just outlined a plan that will keep players away IMO. Knicks need to build an organization worth joining. Not there yet.

I don't think it's too early to speculate on our youth. Most of them have NBA experience and outside of shooting improvements, a players toolbox generally doesn't change. Overall improvement is almost exclusively characterized by the extent a player can scale what they already do i.e. being more efficient.

As for our M.O. in the league, I think that is a byproduct of how incompetent management is and not what we're doing with our draft picks. In the past 30 years, Derek Fisher, Kobe Bryant and (for the moment) Kyle Kuzma are the only Lakers not to have been traded by that franchise. Yet during that span, they've managed to sign/acquire stars such as Shaq, LeBron, Pau Gasol, Karl Malone/Gary Payton, etc while winning titles. On the other hand, we've acquired legitimate stars like Carmelo Anthony, proceed to run them into the ground due to our inability to surround them with talent and then try to scapegoat them for the failures of the franchise. And in my opinion, that culture has not changed an iota; we just tried publicly shaming Durant to excuse the fact he chose the Nets over us. Worse still is that we're repeating the cycles of the past: overpaying marginal talent in hopes they pop and hinging much of our success on free agency rather than trying to accumulate assets and developing from within.

Like I said before, attempting to trade for Giannis will gut our team. Unfortunately, the Bucks will have no interest in re-threads like Bobby Portis, Reggie Bullock, Elfrid Payton, etc. What they will have interest in are draft picks, which we forsaked for the opportunity to get guys who won't be on the team in 2 years. However, that lightly protected 2024-2026 1st round GSW pick attached to Andre Igoudala and that 2023-2026 1st round MIA pick attached to Mo Harkless would've certainly interested the Bucks in a Giannis trade scenario. Matter of fact, that MIA pick has already served its end in acquiring a superstar in that Paul George trade to LAC. And that's the difference between us and competent management, which keeps us a laughingstock and them making decisions that always lead to being a contender.

Giannis couldnt get out of the East with his supporting cast, you're suggesting we bring him to NY and make do with less. Less is what we would have in any Giannis trade. Lakers knew how to build from the ground up. Thats where their success started West/ Worthy/Magic/Kobe they built around those foundational pieces. We as of now have none who have proven themselves.

Some of tbe stars you named were close to retirement when they got to the Lakers. West was able to sign Kwahi because he knows how to build a team from the ground up. Our rep is throwing money at stars without a foundation in place, and no follow through. That has to change before elite players do more than give lip service to signing with the Knicks.

I think we share the same POV, as far as how a team should be built. I've been a proponent of building through the draft for years and more or less end up in a situation like the Nets did with a host of peripheral talent that can compliment incoming superstar free agents. The Knicks are incompetent though and I don't see us being able to build much of anything with the talent we're bringing in, which makes them have more utility as trade fodder. Hopefuly if/when Giannis demands a trade, the bulk of our team could be fleshed out around him with shrewd free agent signings. It's far from my ideal but it's what we'd have to settle for if we want to become competitive when considering the decision-making of the men in charge.

Chandler wrote:^^ you said the same thing last year

Then we won 17 games and no one wanted to meet w us because we sucked ass. Good he idea that we were a better destination was a bad joke played on the fans. Hey we might suck at our jobs but you’ll like it here better because .... (you’re a masochist)

So we spent 70 million on role players which has rebuilt our relationship w dirtbag agents but everyone else is still laughing at us

I hate to admit it but I feel the same way. We badly bungled this free agency and next by committing to re-threads multiple teams didn't want. It'll handicap our flexibility next year as well when we could've leveraged cap space for picks that could be used in a potential Giannis deal.