knicks1248 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Mills has been part of the problem in the past but I think there’s value in seeing everything that went wrong over the years and being committed to doing it right now that he’s completely in charge.

Exactly.....keeping Mills around is a win win for Dolan and the FO.

Having Mills eyes and ears open allows Dolan to take a back seat. Dolan trust Mills which is why hes out of the public eye.

Mills is also around to make sure we dont repeat history, since he was part of the problem....he can now be part of the solution....with his lessons learned mentality and management.

If you have 70 million and a slew of top tier fa and you can't nab 1 or 2, then you suck as a FO.

All this BS talk about "stars wanting to be here in NY" and they are not trading for players that already want to come via FA.

He sold that to the fans and he sold it to DOLAN who goes public with the same rant on ESPN.

Now there's talk about not get anyone, and a possibility of going to bat with the same bS plan as last season..

Don't forget I T was just as close to Dolan as mill is, and he finally had enough of him. You can only lose for so long before your fired.

To get top FAs you first need to build a team for them to join.
This is what Knicks FO is doing. And it will take long time.
Because Knicks has no team. It has been a joke for many years and still is.
So what are you mambo-jumbo about?

ekstarks94 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:He's letting Perry do his job. That gives me faith in him. He invited a draftee to dinner and watch nba finals with him. That gives me faith in him. He's committed to build the right way and has a compadre in Perry with the same sentiment. That gives me faith in him. and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

+ infinity

Totally agree!

I understand that he was here when bad decisions were made and he made another one on his own before Perry got here. But think about our moves since. I think Perry pitches him a full plan he loved and is fully committed on building. I think right now we are in the Perry Era where it’s HIS plan the one we are making.

Another aspect to consider is that he may have been miscast as a GM, but now as the president, having seen the good and the bad of dealing in NY, dealing with Dolan and learning the basketball management game, being the president and having an experienced real GM with a plan makes him better at his present role.

This is the first time in a while we have a management team willing to play the waiting game and building through the draft, through cleaning the cap and through well-thought free agent signings. Let’s hope they don’t get derailed.

Also there are 29 other teams with many that can maneuver to make moves we might desire or pay a price we are unwilling/unable to spend based on THE TEAMS OWN GOALS! Trading for AD might be some fans goals but the reality is not a good fit for knicks to have made such a move at this time.

Some fans want to complain about the past. It’s like seeing your girl working out, eating right, taking care of her body and your slobbering around saying “Hey, if you did this before you would’t have to know. Or “hey, you did this before and it didn’t work, what makes you think you can do it this time?” “You never did this before, what makes you think you can do it now?”
I’m calling out 1248 and the like here.

No, we don’t have to provide moral support to our FO because they doing just fine in their understanding what needs to be done and when. It’s just not always achievable to execute. KP got hurt, Durant got hurt.....and the best laid plans get adjusted.

In the last ten years we were able to sign Lebron before “The decision” but really not in the conversation. When Durant met in the hamptons, we were not in the conversation either. Now we are. It’s not just cap space, its the roster and assets. We are not quite there to provide ready players or their trade values have not matured. We are getting close.

Cartman718 wrote:and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

You do realize under your criteria, guys like Coach K, Chuck Daly and Erik Spolestra might not have ever gotten a chance to coach at this level right?

Under your criteria against all of professional sports, you might also have taken the opportunity away from guys like Bill Belichick and Tony LaRussa.

The Cavs just hired a female assistant coach from the college ranks. There are zero female NBA players. You do realize that under your criteria, she would never get an opportunity right?

"Represent that right" - What the **** are you even talking about?

Professional sports is still a hard meritocracy. Yes, you will get situations like Brian Schottenheimer, but if you don't produce, you will eventually get churned out. You still need to produce.

What makes a great player does not mean he will be a good coach or a good executive.

Most of you will see this in your own industries. A great doctor might not make a great director of medicine at a hospital. A great engineer might not make a great head of an engineering firm. A great cop might not make a great chief of police. A great teacher might not make a great principal. A great mayor might not make a great governor.

Plenty of people are great personal trainers, bartenders and chefs and have zero business running a gym, a bar or a restaurant, this is proven just by simple observation in every day life.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?

There are a ****load of gay players in professional sports. Always have been. Should there be a proportional representation of gay coaches for those players? What about those with specific religious affiliation? Many players have actual mental illness ( not just Ron Artest), should there be a segment set aside for bi-polar coaches?

You preach some kind of bull**** equality, but you only make it clear YOU DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT THOSE WHO FIT YOUR MOTHERFUCKING AGENDA.

Basic sports reality - YOU KEEP WHAT YOU KILL

If you hire someone for any reason other than winning, you punish your team and franchise and they will lose and that is the worst punishment in all of sports. You picked a reason other than winning. You found an agenda that puts winning second. That is the most unforgivable sin in all of sports.

YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION. I HAVE BEEN ON THIS SITE FOR YEARS AND I'VE NEVER TRIED TO TAKE THAT FROM ANYONE ( THOUGH I'VE TOLD PEOPLE I THINK THEIR IDEAS WERE BAD OR DUMB) KEEP YOUR OPINION IF YOU LIKE, BUT DON'T EVER PRETEND YOU ACTUALLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT EQUALITY. BECAUSE I DON'T HEAR YOU RAILING FOR ASIAN COACHES, WOMEN AS COACHES, GAYS AS COACHES, WICKANS AS COACHES OR ANYTHING CLOSE TO BEING AS ABSURD AS YOUR ORIGINAL PREMISE.

But it's not FAIR!

You mean in a high profile job where there are only like 30 positions in the entire ****ing world? Add up team presidents, GMs and head coaches. 90 jobs in the entire ****ing world. High profile and desirable and high status jobs. And yet the process to get something so in demand just might not be totally fair! You don't ****ing say!

How about focusing on what makes the Knicks WIN GAMES instead of losing them? How can you take the absurdly simple and make it so ****ing hard?

blkexec wrote:

90sKnicks wrote:Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

In the past, we've always had 1 person in that position....How did that turn out? This is NY..the mecca....we havent been anything for over 20 years. We finally look like we're heading in the right direction. I guess 2 people driving is the solution, not the problem.

Jmpasq wrote:

blkexec wrote:

90sKnicks wrote:Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

In the past, we've always had 1 person in that position....How did that turn out? This is NY..the mecca....we havent been anything for over 20 years. We finally look like we're heading in the right direction. I guess 2 people driving is the solution, not the problem.

Sean Marks looks like he can do the job alright as 1 person

Cartman718 wrote:He's letting Perry do his job. That gives me faith in him. He invited a draftee to dinner and watch nba finals with him. That gives me faith in him. He's committed to build the right way and has a compadre in Perry with the same sentiment. That gives me faith in him. and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

TripleThreat wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

You do realize under your criteria, guys like Coach K, Chuck Daly and Erik Spolestra might not have ever gotten a chance to coach at this level right?

Under your criteria against all of professional sports, you might also have taken the opportunity away from guys like Bill Belichick and Tony LaRussa.

The Cavs just hired a female assistant coach from the college ranks. There are zero female NBA players. You do realize that under your criteria, she would never get an opportunity right?

"Represent that right" - What the **** are you even talking about?

Professional sports is still a hard meritocracy. Yes, you will get situations like Brian Schottenheimer, but if you don't produce, you will eventually get churned out. You still need to produce.

What makes a great player does not mean he will be a good coach or a good executive.

Most of you will see this in your own industries. A great doctor might not make a great director of medicine at a hospital. A great engineer might not make a great head of an engineering firm. A great cop might not make a great chief of police. A great teacher might not make a great principal. A great mayor might not make a great governor.

Plenty of people are great personal trainers, bartenders and chefs and have zero business running a gym, a bar or a restaurant, this is proven just by simple observation in every day life.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT?

There are a ****load of gay players in professional sports. Always have been. Should there be a proportional representation of gay coaches for those players? What about those with specific religious affiliation? Many players have actual mental illness ( not just Ron Artest), should there be a segment set aside for bi-polar coaches?

You preach some kind of bull**** equality, but you only make it clear YOU DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT THOSE WHO FIT YOUR MOTHERFUCKING AGENDA.

Basic sports reality - YOU KEEP WHAT YOU KILL

If you hire someone for any reason other than winning, you punish your team and franchise and they will lose and that is the worst punishment in all of sports. You picked a reason other than winning. You found an agenda that puts winning second. That is the most unforgivable sin in all of sports.

YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION. I HAVE BEEN ON THIS SITE FOR YEARS AND I'VE NEVER TRIED TO TAKE THAT FROM ANYONE ( THOUGH I'VE TOLD PEOPLE I THINK THEIR IDEAS WERE BAD OR DUMB) KEEP YOUR OPINION IF YOU LIKE, BUT DON'T EVER PRETEND YOU ACTUALLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT EQUALITY. BECAUSE I DON'T HEAR YOU RAILING FOR ASIAN COACHES, WOMEN AS COACHES, GAYS AS COACHES, WICKANS AS COACHES OR ANYTHING CLOSE TO BEING AS ABSURD AS YOUR ORIGINAL PREMISE.

But it's not FAIR!

You mean in a high profile job where there are only like 30 positions in the entire ****ing world? Add up team presidents, GMs and head coaches. 90 jobs in the entire ****ing world. High profile and desirable and high status jobs. And yet the process to get something so in demand just might not be totally fair! You don't ****ing say!

How about focusing on what makes the Knicks WIN GAMES instead of losing them? How can you take the absurdly simple and make it so ****ing hard?

There is only one equality - in he grave.
The rest is life where no one is equal to anyone and all are one.

90sKnicks wrote:Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

Team Presidents usually run the business side of the franchise. This is a very hard and very complex job. This means media, marketing, advertising, arena issues, payroll, sponsorships, community outreach, charity, etc, etc. Very very very hard ****ing job.

General Managers run the personnel side of the franchise for the actual team playing on the court.

No one can do both jobs at the same time. Some people have BOTH TITLES and FINAL SAY in both areas, but even those people have others doing a lot of the legwork. Bill Belichick is Team President, Head Coach and GM. But Nick Caserio does a lot of the grunt work for all of those jobs aside from head coach.

Having BOTH TITLES is not the same as DOING BOTH JOBS FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Giving FAs, even ones outside of all NBA status, only a two year deal max is unrealistic for most FAs.

Getting 50 percent of your draft picks right is basically impossible. That defies all of known NBA draft history. It defies the draft realities of any professional sport on the planet with a draft.

Feel free to look at the aggregate draft history of any modern NBA team for the last 10 years. 15 years. 20 years. No one is hitting on 50 percent of their picks.

You are asking for something that has never existed in NBA history. Yes, some teams have had good strings of draft luck, but a 50 percent clip is pretty much impossible.

Perry may know what he is doing. He deserves some time.
Mills sucks, we should all agree on this.

nyknickzingis wrote:Mills incompetence is part of the reason the Knicks had to trade KP.
To get out of the THU contract, KP was used as trade bait.
KP never had a good team around him and Mills was part of that problem.

Perry may know what he is doing. He deserves some time.
Mills sucks, we should all agree on this.

KP was traded because he was a diva. Nothing more nothing less. He just had major value to get Hardaways contract off. But trust me they would rather have kept KP and ate Hardaways contract and have KP be a star. But KP wanted out and KP made a power play to force his way out. He played 2.5 seasons with the first one being as a rookie. Don’t want to hear about “never having a good team around him” as any type of reasoning. He just became an all star 2 seasons ago which he got injured.

He could have stayed and we could be adding R.J. Barrett. Knicks also would have had cap for one max. To get Kyrie or Deangelo to pair with him. So let not act like moving KP was essential.