ankurk wrote:I'm against moving back but if we Did I'd want Reddish and BolBol

Bol Bol hahaha

If other teams want to overvalue the 3rd pick and we can get multiple picks in the draft this year and in the future, I'd do it. The only guarantee in this years draft was Zion. I don't buy the argument that there is a big drop off after the first 3 picks this year. For this year, there's a big drop off after the FIRST PICK. There's as much of a chance getting a star at 8-10 as there is at 3. RJ has too many holes in his game to just sit on the 3rd pick and not move it for any reason. For Zion, yes I'd feel very good, but anything other than Zion and I'd rather take the chance at multiple decent picks at finding a star.

knickstorrents wrote:I keep hearing arguments like, 'we haven't had a pick this high in years', and 'RJ is a great prospect' and 'dont overthink it' but I am not hearing enough arguments about why RJ is a good player on his own. We've gone down the path of athletic guard who can't shoot and can't defend and is a poor passer too many times for us to repeat this mistake again.

If other teams want to overvalue the 3rd pick and we can get multiple picks in the draft this year and in the future, I'd do it. The only guarantee in this years draft was Zion. I don't buy the argument that there is a big drop off after the first 3 picks this year. For this year, there's a big drop off after the FIRST PICK. There's as much of a chance getting a star at 8-10 as there is at 3. RJ has too many holes in his game to just sit on the 3rd pick and not move it for any reason. For Zion, yes I'd feel very good, but anything other than Zion and I'd rather take the chance at multiple decent picks at finding a star.

BigDaddyG wrote:

TPercy wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:I keep hearing arguments like, 'we haven't had a pick this high in years', and 'RJ is a great prospect' and 'dont overthink it' but I am not hearing enough arguments about why RJ is a good player on his own. We've gone down the path of athletic guard who can't shoot and can't defend and is a poor passer too many times for us to repeat this mistake again.

If other teams want to overvalue the 3rd pick and we can get multiple picks in the draft this year and in the future, I'd do it. The only guarantee in this years draft was Zion. I don't buy the argument that there is a big drop off after the first 3 picks this year. For this year, there's a big drop off after the FIRST PICK. There's as much of a chance getting a star at 8-10 as there is at 3. RJ has too many holes in his game to just sit on the 3rd pick and not move it for any reason. For Zion, yes I'd feel very good, but anything other than Zion and I'd rather take the chance at multiple decent picks at finding a star.

This. A combo of Deandre Hunter and Bol Bol and A 2nd rounder>> Rj Barrett

A trade like that is the type of trade that could make a GM lose his job, have his wife divorce him and make it hard for his kids to be able to look him in the eyes with an ounce of respect.

Ok why? Barrett is not that good as people make him out to be and as Knicks fans we should be able to see right through him. Even if he does pan out there is none and I my not a single chance in hell in develops in NY. Of course the trade down isn’t optimal but getting solid role player and taking a big risk on a potential superstar is better deal than drafting an almost certain bust.

TPercy wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

TPercy wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:I keep hearing arguments like, 'we haven't had a pick this high in years', and 'RJ is a great prospect' and 'dont overthink it' but I am not hearing enough arguments about why RJ is a good player on his own. We've gone down the path of athletic guard who can't shoot and can't defend and is a poor passer too many times for us to repeat this mistake again.

If other teams want to overvalue the 3rd pick and we can get multiple picks in the draft this year and in the future, I'd do it. The only guarantee in this years draft was Zion. I don't buy the argument that there is a big drop off after the first 3 picks this year. For this year, there's a big drop off after the FIRST PICK. There's as much of a chance getting a star at 8-10 as there is at 3. RJ has too many holes in his game to just sit on the 3rd pick and not move it for any reason. For Zion, yes I'd feel very good, but anything other than Zion and I'd rather take the chance at multiple decent picks at finding a star.

This. A combo of Deandre Hunter and Bol Bol and A 2nd rounder>> Rj Barrett

A trade like that is the type of trade that could make a GM lose his job, have his wife divorce him and make it hard for his kids to be able to look him in the eyes with an ounce of respect.

Ok why? Barrett is not that good as people make him out to be and as Knicks fans we should be able to see right through him. Even if he does pan out there is none and I my not a single chance in hell in develops in NY. Of course the trade down isn’t optimal but getting solid role player and taking a big risk on a potential superstar is better deal than drafting an almost certain bust.

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:If I’m being honest Barrett sucks. I’d do that trade in a heart beat w/ Atlanta throwing in their 2nd.

He obviously is a great prospect. Would go #1 in a lot of drafts based on the year he had and hype. Just say you don’t like him. Saying he sucks just hurts your credibility.

There are too many red flags in his game. A shot jacker who misses easy reads and doesn’t give any defensive effort despite the potential. His right hand is also very shaky. We’ve seen all this before as knicks fans. We already have one of those in Kevin Knox. Why should we expect that he will develop here?

He is only 18 years old still, of course he has plenty of weaknesses. But he had an incredible freshman year. There’s no need to overthink it. Hes a great prospect.

Dude. This guy doesn’t crack top 7 of last years draft or frankly 2017 draft either. He’s no top prospect by any means.

Please do some research on Barrett coming out of high school. You’re very off here. It’s easy to forget how hyped he was coming out of school and how good his freshman year was in the Zion shadow so I don’t blame you there.

Coming out of high school doesn’t mean a damn thing. What matters is what he has demonstrated he can do in college like the rest of his peers.

First teenager to average 22/7/4 stat line. 26/8/5 without Zion. Broke the ACC freshman scoring record. 45% from the field. Took over as Duke's primary playmaker later in the year due to passing ability. What am i missing? Compare his numbers to other top picks (many of them Dukies) in recent years. I literally feel like you are confusing him with Reddish or something. Barrett was flat out dominate as a freshman, despite reclassifying and still not even 19. Would go #1 overall in many drafts. I'm not going to continue this back and forth. It's like we aren't talking about the same player. Suggesting he underachieved as a freshman is one of the strangest things i've heard on this forum to date in 18 years.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:If I’m being honest Barrett sucks. I’d do that trade in a heart beat w/ Atlanta throwing in their 2nd.

He obviously is a great prospect. Would go #1 in a lot of drafts based on the year he had and hype. Just say you don’t like him. Saying he sucks just hurts your credibility.

There are too many red flags in his game. A shot jacker who misses easy reads and doesn’t give any defensive effort despite the potential. His right hand is also very shaky. We’ve seen all this before as knicks fans. We already have one of those in Kevin Knox. Why should we expect that he will develop here?

He is only 18 years old still, of course he has plenty of weaknesses. But he had an incredible freshman year. There’s no need to overthink it. Hes a great prospect.

Dude. This guy doesn’t crack top 7 of last years draft or frankly 2017 draft either. He’s no top prospect by any means.

Please do some research on Barrett coming out of high school. You’re very off here. It’s easy to forget how hyped he was coming out of school and how good his freshman year was in the Zion shadow so I don’t blame you there.

Coming out of high school doesn’t mean a damn thing. What matters is what he has demonstrated he can do in college like the rest of his peers.

First teenager to average 22/7/4 stat line. 26/8/5 without Zion. Broke the ACC freshman scoring record. 45% from the field. Took over as Duke's primary playmaker later in the year due to passing ability. What am i missing? Compare his numbers to other top picks (many of them Dukies) in recent years. I literally feel like you are confusing him with Reddish or something. Barrett was flat out dominate as a freshman, despite reclassifying and still not even 19. Would go #1 overall in many drafts. I'm not going to continue this back and forth. It's like we aren't talking about the same player. Suggesting he underachieved as a freshman is one of the strangest things i've heard on this forum to date in 18 years.

thanks for fighting the good fight -- frankly I think teh discussion on RJ shows how little a good chunk of this messagebaord knows about the game

Yeah i don't get how it's not a unanimous perception that he's a top tier prospect. I was looking at college stats and advanced stats compared to recent guys like Tatum, J Parker, Ingram, Okafor, and even non-duke players like Wiggins, Fultz, Ball, Ayton, etc. Williamson and Barrett are really in their own class of dominance as far as recent college freshman. Even compare his freshman year to KD. KD averaged 1 assist per game.

Barrett:
* he had monster numbers as a lead player as a freshman, dwarfing Culver's soph stats.
* critics point to his perceived weaknesses - left-hand dominant, suspect ball handling, shooting, defense, all of which were superior to Culver's skills as a freshman
* he has a level of aggression in his game that you don't see too often. He makes things happen, he makes the defense react.

It sort of blows my mind to think folks think that Barrett (1.5 years younger than Culver) would stand pat on his game. Barrett is the higher upside player - he's younger, more athletic - and has shown more at an earlier age. Refinement of his skills can can make him elite. He can work on finishing with his off hand, his ball handling, his shot. Some think on an NBA team with some shooters, he'd look even better.

People seem to think he'd be lost in a lower usage role, perhaps like Doug McDermott or Evan Turner have been in the NBA. That might be true. A lot of college stars don't pan out and struggle for years or don't turn the corner and become journeymen.

Culver might be a little more equipped right now to be a steady role player, even a starter. But the same thing that holds Barrett back (his shot) is just as much an issue with Culver.