Knixkik wrote:I would to love to see ntilikina get an extended look at PG with Dotson at SF and Lance at PF. It would be our best defensive unit with Hardaway and Kanter leading the offense. Knox should eventually replace Lance in the lineup. Then Porzingis replace Dotson down the line.

I was really surprised by THJ's defensive stats on one of the other threads. To my eyes, he is providing the effort, staying in front of his man etc. Really jarring to see the stats. I think and hope his defense can improve; less optimistic about Kanter's ability to improve there but let's see what Fizz can do. (My panglossian side thinks of Marc Gasol being a good defense without being very athletic)

I have mixed feelings about Burke. My advice to him would be to go all out. He has to leave the floor exhausted and that means even more energy on defense

Want to see Knox return (fully healthy and not too soon); would shift THJ to SG and start Knox

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I would to love to see ntilikina get an extended look at PG with Dotson at SF and Lance at PF. It would be our best defensive unit with Hardaway and Kanter leading the offense. Knox should eventually replace Lance in the lineup. Then Porzingis replace Dotson down the line.

Absolutely. I think Fiz has sort of hinted at that.

I don't understand this obsession with you about this kid as a PG as if you know something every coch doesn't.

The last month of the season JH played him mostly off the ball, FIZ had an entire summer to watch film, a summer league and training camp, he watches him everyday in practice and came away with starting him OFF THE BALL. You know he's not a high pace player, you know he jogs down the court and gives the ball up after 3 dribbles.

Is he going to make Curry work his ass off on defense

Is he going to give you 8 to 10 assist.

Is he going to penetrate

Is he going to shoot threes to keep the defense honest and keep the spacing.

Is he going to push the pace every chance he gets.

If you can't say yes to those PG questions, then how is he not suited for that role.

He gets hockey assist, and plays decent d, how in the world does that make him the best option at point

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I would to love to see ntilikina get an extended look at PG with Dotson at SF and Lance at PF. It would be our best defensive unit with Hardaway and Kanter leading the offense. Knox should eventually replace Lance in the lineup. Then Porzingis replace Dotson down the line.

Absolutely. I think Fiz has sort of hinted at that.

I don't understand this obsession with you about this kid as a PG as if you know something every coch doesn't.

The last month of the season JH played him mostly off the ball, FIZ had an entire summer to watch film, a summer league and training camp, he watches him everyday in practice and came away with starting him OFF THE BALL. You know he's not a high pace player, you know he jogs down the court and gives the ball up after 3 dribbles.

Is he going to make Curry work his ass off on defense

Is he going to give you 8 to 10 assist.

Is he going to penetrate

Is he going to shoot threes to keep the defense honest and keep the spacing.

Is he going to push the pace every chance he gets.

If you can't say yes to those PG questions, then how is he not suited for that role.

He gets hockey assist, and plays decent d, how in the world does that make him the best option at point

My obsession? You are the one who has the obsession with knocking on the kid all the time. Yesterday you wanted him in the G League lol. I know your "junior high" experience makes you much more knowledgeable than any of us but I go by what Fiz has been saying. Also a lot of people around here seem to agree

And what has fiz been saying in regards to him being our pg?

meloshouldgo wrote:Vonleh, Mario, Frank, Trier and Boobies.

You referring to Kevin Seraphin?

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:Frank is a swiss army knife. U dont put these guys in a box.....

I never saw Burke as a NBA starter. And that hasn't changed.

I think Trier can be groomed to be a PG.. .If that's the long term plan.

We probably have the most xnba and college PGs on our coaching staff. So I will assume that roll is being analyzed over and over. And maybe the PG of the future isn't on this team. If that's the case, they probably want to see if Frank can get used to multiple positions....so when they settle on a PG. Frank will still have a roll and be an impact player.

Curious, why do you think Trier and not Burke can be groomed? Seem to be the same time of player with the same type of PG deficiencies.

IMO, think they both have the same things they need to work on and both have a similar chance to get there. Obviously, Trier is a bit younger but feel Trey showed he was capable most of the end of last year and Trier has shown a bit of that to begin the year. I hope at least one pans out to be solid contributor. But agree that at this point, they are not starting PG grade.

Well....I Burke is my height and I know the challenges of playing ball around giants. And you see it when you drives in traffic. Burke seems like a better fit as a scoring guard, similar to Trier. But Trier is 6'4 and the way he gets separation with his dribble seems more natural for him.

But yes, both are similar score first guards. And both can be groomed into a PG role. But at Burkes size, it seems like he has a harder time than Trier, when it comes to scoring or passing in traffic. Burke is older and most likely already set in his ways. Trier is still a new lump of clay, and you can see with his separation off the dribble, he puts a lot of pressure on the defense. I also like Triers defensive potential over Burker, because of his size, chase down blocks and overall defensive energy. Trier still has a huge chip on his shoulder. Burker's chip is dwindling to a few rocks at this point. He already proved his worth in the G league, as a scorer...and clearly belongs in the NBA.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:Frank is a swiss army knife. U dont put these guys in a box.....

I never saw Burke as a NBA starter. And that hasn't changed.

I think Trier can be groomed to be a PG.. .If that's the long term plan.

We probably have the most xnba and college PGs on our coaching staff. So I will assume that roll is being analyzed over and over. And maybe the PG of the future isn't on this team. If that's the case, they probably want to see if Frank can get used to multiple positions....so when they settle on a PG. Frank will still have a roll and be an impact player.

Curious, why do you think Trier and not Burke can be groomed? Seem to be the same time of player with the same type of PG deficiencies.

IMO, think they both have the same things they need to work on and both have a similar chance to get there. Obviously, Trier is a bit younger but feel Trey showed he was capable most of the end of last year and Trier has shown a bit of that to begin the year. I hope at least one pans out to be solid contributor. But agree that at this point, they are not starting PG grade.

Well....I Burke is my height and I know the challenges of playing ball around giants. And you see it when you drives in traffic. Burke seems like a better fit as a scoring guard, similar to Trier. But Trier is 6'4 and the way he gets separation with his dribble seems more natural for him.

But yes, both are similar score first guards. And both can be groomed into a PG role. But at Burkes size, it seems like he has a harder time than Trier, when it comes to scoring or passing in traffic. Burke is older and most likely already set in his ways. Trier is still a new lump of clay, and you can see with his separation off the dribble, he puts a lot of pressure on the defense. I also like Triers defensive potential over Burker, because of his size, chase down blocks and overall defensive energy. Trier still has a huge chip on his shoulder. Burker's chip is dwindling to a few rocks at this point. He already proved his worth in the G league, as a scorer...and clearly belongs in the NBA.

Trier is the better defender (not great or even good) just better between the two of them. Burke however seems to be more able to pass the ball. Trier is not capable of passing at all - he is a blinders on derive to the hoop or die trying type kid. I am sure Fiz is working on that but I don't expect any changes soon

Jmpasq wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:Frank is a swiss army knife. U dont put these guys in a box.....

I never saw Burke as a NBA starter. And that hasn't changed.

I think Trier can be groomed to be a PG.. .If that's the long term plan.

We probably have the most xnba and college PGs on our coaching staff. So I will assume that roll is being analyzed over and over. And maybe the PG of the future isn't on this team. If that's the case, they probably want to see if Frank can get used to multiple positions....so when they settle on a PG. Frank will still have a roll and be an impact player.

Curious, why do you think Trier and not Burke can be groomed? Seem to be the same time of player with the same type of PG deficiencies.

IMO, think they both have the same things they need to work on and both have a similar chance to get there. Obviously, Trier is a bit younger but feel Trey showed he was capable most of the end of last year and Trier has shown a bit of that to begin the year. I hope at least one pans out to be solid contributor. But agree that at this point, they are not starting PG grade.

Well....I Burke is my height and I know the challenges of playing ball around giants. And you see it when you drives in traffic. Burke seems like a better fit as a scoring guard, similar to Trier. But Trier is 6'4 and the way he gets separation with his dribble seems more natural for him.

But yes, both are similar score first guards. And both can be groomed into a PG role. But at Burkes size, it seems like he has a harder time than Trier, when it comes to scoring or passing in traffic. Burke is older and most likely already set in his ways. Trier is still a new lump of clay, and you can see with his separation off the dribble, he puts a lot of pressure on the defense. I also like Triers defensive potential over Burker, because of his size, chase down blocks and overall defensive energy. Trier still has a huge chip on his shoulder. Burker's chip is dwindling to a few rocks at this point. He already proved his worth in the G league, as a scorer...and clearly belongs in the NBA.

I think burke will have success off the bench and wherever he lands next year. I agree I think Trier has a chip on his shoulder which is good. I just want to see him try and work on other parts of the game too when his scoring isnt there

Looking at the roster we should look to move Burke. I wonder if its possible to get a 2nd round pick for him. If we can get one for Burke maybe we can package that pick to trade Lee

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:Frank is a swiss army knife. U dont put these guys in a box.....

I never saw Burke as a NBA starter. And that hasn't changed.

I think Trier can be groomed to be a PG.. .If that's the long term plan.

We probably have the most xnba and college PGs on our coaching staff. So I will assume that roll is being analyzed over and over. And maybe the PG of the future isn't on this team. If that's the case, they probably want to see if Frank can get used to multiple positions....so when they settle on a PG. Frank will still have a roll and be an impact player.

Curious, why do you think Trier and not Burke can be groomed? Seem to be the same time of player with the same type of PG deficiencies.

IMO, think they both have the same things they need to work on and both have a similar chance to get there. Obviously, Trier is a bit younger but feel Trey showed he was capable most of the end of last year and Trier has shown a bit of that to begin the year. I hope at least one pans out to be solid contributor. But agree that at this point, they are not starting PG grade.

Well....I Burke is my height and I know the challenges of playing ball around giants. And you see it when you drives in traffic. Burke seems like a better fit as a scoring guard, similar to Trier. But Trier is 6'4 and the way he gets separation with his dribble seems more natural for him.

But yes, both are similar score first guards. And both can be groomed into a PG role. But at Burkes size, it seems like he has a harder time than Trier, when it comes to scoring or passing in traffic. Burke is older and most likely already set in his ways. Trier is still a new lump of clay, and you can see with his separation off the dribble, he puts a lot of pressure on the defense. I also like Triers defensive potential over Burker, because of his size, chase down blocks and overall defensive energy. Trier still has a huge chip on his shoulder. Burker's chip is dwindling to a few rocks at this point. He already proved his worth in the G league, as a scorer...and clearly belongs in the NBA.

Trier looks like he is starting to get scouted, was having trouble creating space. We'll see how he responds.

TripleThreat wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
Looking at the roster we should look to move Burke. I wonder if its possible to get a 2nd round pick for him. If we can get one for Burke maybe we can package that pick to trade Lee

Somebody mentioned adding him to a potential lee deal. Since his cap hit isnt big and he does bring scoring off the bench he could be valuable.

By the time in the season that something could potentially happen, teams will have to weigh out the players it might get who are bought out ( think guys like Jose Calderon or Matt Barnes) Many buyout signings are privately discussed and negotiated weeks and even months in advance. If the guys existing team likes the guy, esp if he has positive league history, they don't have a problem with what amounts to tampering in a fringe veteran buyout signing.

Rebuilding/tanking teams pretty much have no use for someone like Burke unless they've suffered catastrophic injuries and even then, they'd dip into their G League rosters first.

Burke does not defend and does not space the floor with an elite three point shot, plus he is ball dominant but not effective enough to justify the way he calls his own number as much as he does. Which is why he was available in the first place. Nothing he does fits well into a small role on the back end of a rotation of a team making a push.

A guy like Barnes can defend. He can strategically give you six hard fouls and massive contact/bullying on the floor. Calderon can move without the ball and gun it from three point range. Skill sets like this , you can use in a smaller role and make it work. Burke offers none of this.

It's like meeting a woman on a blind coffee date who is mean and fat at the same time. You can be hot and mean. You can be bubbly/funny and fat. But if you are mean and really fat, why would anyone want to spend an hour watching you drinking coffee? (Between fistfuls of porkrinds) Why would anyone want to buy you a cup of coffee?

Or there's the girl at the junior college who has sort of bad skin and sort of crooked teeth but she's young and thin and she's polite and she buys her own coffee ( A G League player, young but with clear flaws)

Or there's the aging single mom who just finally understands she won't be able to trick anyone, not even someone super thirsty, to pay for her ****ty credit problems and 3 kids from previous failed relationships. But she knows with some good oral skills, maybe she can get something out of it (Maybe you'll take her out on the town a few times and buy her a few gifts) ( Ring chasing fringe veteran buyouts like a Calderon or a Barnes)

The aging single mom and the junior college girl can fill out a role. Which is why they don't cry home alone with 55 cats.

Trey Burke tries hard. But he's definitely buy a **** metric ton of Kleenex and cat food

Whats awesome is the variety of comparison to women Triple can conjure up! I look forward to them.
"mouthbreather" might still be my favorite!

Nalods starting line up:

Frank
Timmy
Mitch
Knox
Vonleh.

Not sure how that affects the 2nd unit but this is about the future.
I do see Mudiay getting a chance to start if he can get back to what ever the hell Fiz saw in him preseason.

Tonight the Nets 3 season 2-Way SG Levert will have his 2nd chance on beating the Knicks having Timmy as a defender !!!

The Knicks are a young-core roster that need 2 dependable lineup to develop into a co-existing lineup by midseason.

Starters: Frank Burke Mario LT (replacing KP)and Kanter ..
2nd unit bench players need their own lineup .. Mudiay Timmy Knox Vonleh MitchRob ..

The Knicks has some well playing SG in Lee, Dotson, Trier that needed to wait until the 10th to 20th game of the season for playing time while the coach develop a 10 man rotation using Franf & Burke and Mudiay & Timmy ….