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Who do we cut?
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Bretrobert1
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10/4/2018  1:48 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.

I watched Baker play a ton in college & now some for the Knicks--based on playing time. He was one of the smartest, best defenders I've ever seen at the college level. I'd say right up there with Aaron Craft.

Baker has attributes that can't be taught. There's room for a guy like him on any team. The problem is, a lot of Knicks fans want him to be and put up stats like a player he is not. Accept him for the player he is & enjoy the hustle he plays with. Getting knocked for being "reckless", unreal... It's called defensive intensity & hustle.

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anrst
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10/4/2018  2:26 PM
didn't baker win us some games playing alongside chasson randle 2 years ago?
TripleThreat
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10/4/2018  2:39 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.


Baker consistently makes the right decision on the court. While I don't watch every single last play, I've never seen him make a bad decision. I have seen him fail on a physical level or simply fail at execution. If he had a thimbles worth of actual NBA grade athleticism, he'd be an All Star. His BBIQ is off the charts. His angles, his situational awareness, his timing, it's all inate. It's stuff you can't teach.

He has limitations, but he's a legit NBA wing defender. And he gets NO CALLS at all in his favor. Zero. Refs job this kid so hard and he's there saying Fuck you all, come for me bitches. Love it. Yeah, he's not a great player, but love the grit.

Infinitely more useful than Mudiay. If the Knicks cut him, every quasi non Warriors contender would vie for him just for the defense alone.
knicks1248
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10/4/2018  2:42 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.

I watched Baker play a ton in college & now some for the Knicks--based on playing time. He was one of the smartest, best defenders I've ever seen at the college level. I'd say right up there with Aaron Craft.

Baker has attributes that can't be taught. There's room for a guy like him on any team. The problem is, a lot of Knicks fans want him to be and put up stats like a player he is not. Accept him for the player he is & enjoy the hustle he plays with. Getting knocked for being "reckless", unreal... It's called defensive intensity & hustle.

Guards are suppose to shoot, defend, and pass at a consistent clip, he can't pass well , and he cant shoot well, which make him a one dimensional.

ES
SupremeCommander
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10/4/2018  2:47 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.


Baker consistently makes the right decision on the court. While I don't watch every single last play, I've never seen him make a bad decision. I have seen him fail on a physical level or simply fail at execution. If he had a thimbles worth of actual NBA grade athleticism, he'd be an All Star. His BBIQ is off the charts. His angles, his situational awareness, his timing, it's all inate. It's stuff you can't teach.

He has limitations, but he's a legit NBA wing defender. And he gets NO CALLS at all in his favor. Zero. Refs job this kid so hard and he's there saying Fuck you all, come for me bitches. Love it. Yeah, he's not a great player, but love the grit.

Infinitely more useful than Mudiay. If the Knicks cut him, every quasi non Warriors contender would vie for him just for the defense alone.

that might be important if we were going to make a run at the NBA Finals but we're not... I'd rather keep the spot available for high upside guys

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
SupremeCommander
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10/4/2018  2:49 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.

I watched Baker play a ton in college & now some for the Knicks--based on playing time. He was one of the smartest, best defenders I've ever seen at the college level. I'd say right up there with Aaron Craft.

Baker has attributes that can't be taught. There's room for a guy like him on any team. The problem is, a lot of Knicks fans want him to be and put up stats like a player he is not. Accept him for the player he is & enjoy the hustle he plays with. Getting knocked for being "reckless", unreal... It's called defensive intensity & hustle.

Cleanthony Early was pretty good at Wichita State. Jimmer Fredette was pretty good in college too - bring the man back from China

Also, when did I ever say he was reckless? I said he was low ceiling scrub but when did I say he was reckless

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
meloshouldgo
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10/4/2018  3:07 PM
This whole Baker thing again?

Is it Friday yet?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Ira
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10/4/2018  4:23 PM
I don't know which is worse - Mudiay's offense or his defense.
knickstorrents
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10/4/2018  10:29 PM
Baker plays winning basketball.... Mudiay I dunno what he does actually.
Rose is not the answer.
CrushAlot
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10/4/2018  10:36 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.


Baker consistently makes the right decision on the court. While I don't watch every single last play, I've never seen him make a bad decision. I have seen him fail on a physical level or simply fail at execution. If he had a thimbles worth of actual NBA grade athleticism, he'd be an All Star. His BBIQ is off the charts. His angles, his situational awareness, his timing, it's all inate. It's stuff you can't teach.

He has limitations, but he's a legit NBA wing defender. And he gets NO CALLS at all in his favor. Zero. Refs job this kid so hard and he's there saying Fuck you all, come for me bitches. Love it. Yeah, he's not a great player, but love the grit.

Infinitely more useful than Mudiay. If the Knicks cut him, every quasi non Warriors contender would vie for him just for the defense alone.

Also, Fizdale said Baker knows the offense better than any player or coach on his staff. Baker either cares more or is a basketball savant. The way he gets after it on the floor, I'd say he cares more.
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TripleThreat
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10/4/2018  11:15 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.


Baker consistently makes the right decision on the court. While I don't watch every single last play, I've never seen him make a bad decision. I have seen him fail on a physical level or simply fail at execution. If he had a thimbles worth of actual NBA grade athleticism, he'd be an All Star. His BBIQ is off the charts. His angles, his situational awareness, his timing, it's all inate. It's stuff you can't teach.

He has limitations, but he's a legit NBA wing defender. And he gets NO CALLS at all in his favor. Zero. Refs job this kid so hard and he's there saying Fuck you all, come for me bitches. Love it. Yeah, he's not a great player, but love the grit.

Infinitely more useful than Mudiay. If the Knicks cut him, every quasi non Warriors contender would vie for him just for the defense alone.

that might be important if we were going to make a run at the NBA Finals but we're not... I'd rather keep the spot available for high upside guys


Baker short expiring contract is trade friendly. It can help round out a salary match for a potential trade at the deadline.

Buyouts for ring chasers rarely offer good wing defense. Maybe Tony Allen once or twice but it doesn't really happen. The difference ( 4 million to 2.4/2.5 for the vets minimum ) might be worth the push for some team, depending on their injury situation.

Good locker room guy
High BBIQ
Good wing defender
Possible useful and practical filler for a deadline trade

Mudiay offers none of this.

If enough solid guys get cut from other teams, then you might have a point. But Baker is not practically the first guy to be jettisoned.

MINIMUM CONTRACT PLAYERS GO FIRST

GUYS WITH ZERO GUARANTEED MONEY GO FIRST-ER

Kornet and Hicks will go. If it gets deep enough Trier too.

One season Bill Belichick cut Safety/Special Teamer Ross Ventrone like 35 times in a single season. Injuries and trades mean Ventrone filled that last 53rd spot, then sometimes something else happened and he got cut and then he came back. Got to the point where they just kept a season long hotel room for him and kept his stuff with the team for the season.

Belichick was asked about it briefly. In a rare bit of candor, he said when I cut Ventrone, I know when I need him back, he's going to be there. Anyone I'm not sure of being there when I need them back, I won't cut.

You cut Baker, he's gone. You aren't getting him back.

You cut Hicks, he's likely to be there 4 weeks later if it comes to that. Kornet. Maybe Trier. Mudiay.
Cartman718
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10/5/2018  9:55 AM
knickstorrents wrote:Baker plays winning basketball.... Mudiay I dunno what he does actually.


that's about it so far.
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arkrud
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10/5/2018  10:24 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:Baker plays winning basketball.... Mudiay I dunno what he does actually.


that's about it so far.

Pro athletes have to have many qualities to play in top leagues.
Physical talent and body build is at the top of the list.
But IQ and mental strength is up there at the top.
Both cannot be grown much. Can be improved if present but if not... sorry.
Mudiay just have very little of it. I doubt he will be in NBA next year.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Chandler
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10/5/2018  10:49 AM
Where does Cortney fit into this question?

He seems like the odd duck out given his age and his desires to play for a contender (I actually like him but wish he were more aggressive on O)

(5)(7)
nykshaknbake
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10/5/2018  12:49 PM
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.

Why? Mudiay will never help you win games or get better. Baker challenges guys defensively in practice. Baker plays excellent defense, and when he hits the 3 he's an excellent 3&D player who is also a secondary ball handler. A 3&D guy who gives you quality play off the bench for 15 minutes is much more useful to me than a guy who blows assignment and plays stupid. If Mudiay earns a spot Ill change my tune, but he's been awful. Baker could have a roll and should challenge guys like Trier and Dotson for minutes.

Mudiay's BB IQ is cringe worthy

I thought to be an excellent 3 and D player, you had to be excellent at 3 point shooting and excellent at D. He's an ok defender, but he's not even a good 3 pt shooter against the bench of the other team primarily. Ron Baker is not an NBA talent, not even the potential. Is he better than mudiay? Maybe, but at least u can say u are trying to develop Mudiay.
smackeddog
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10/5/2018  3:21 PM
knickstorrents wrote:Baker plays winning basketball.... Mudiay I dunno what he does actually.

Yep, I have no idea what Mudiay is supposed to be good at- he's not athletic, he can't shoot, he doesn't have a good handle, he's poor at finishing at the rim and he's poor at defense and passing.
smackeddog
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10/5/2018  3:22 PM
Chandler wrote:Where does Cortney fit into this question?

He seems like the odd duck out given his age and his desires to play for a contender (I actually like him but wish he were more aggressive on O)

I like Lee, but we have a log jam in the backcourt if we keep him. Just saw OKC's Roberson just had another knee surgery and is out another 2 months- I think that would be a nice landing spot for him.
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10/5/2018  3:30 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Ron Baker needs to get started on his next career
Baker is useful. Mudiay is not.

Baker useful? really? who knew, 81 games over 2 seasons at 15.3 mpg is useful. He's a scrub with no ceiling. I'd rather keep the scrub who has a ceiling.

Why? Mudiay will never help you win games or get better. Baker challenges guys defensively in practice. Baker plays excellent defense, and when he hits the 3 he's an excellent 3&D player who is also a secondary ball handler. A 3&D guy who gives you quality play off the bench for 15 minutes is much more useful to me than a guy who blows assignment and plays stupid. If Mudiay earns a spot Ill change my tune, but he's been awful. Baker could have a roll and should challenge guys like Trier and Dotson for minutes.

Mudiay's BB IQ is cringe worthy

What games has Baker helped us win?

Baker is NOT an excellent 3 and D player. He sucks offensively. Defensively, he tries hard but he isn't particularly good at that either. Last year, Adnre Drummond led the league in defensive win shares at 5.73. Baker had what? 4? 2? No, he had 0.4. Baker needs to be active defensively because he doesn't have physical gifts (like Frank). But activity does not equal greatness at defense.

Baker is a scrub, who fit a system. He was signed as a system player. No thank you. I don't want Baker taking minutes from any of our points. I don't want him taking minutes from any of our shooting guards. He freaking stinks.

You want to also cut Mudiay? Fine... no problems there. I'm no fan. But Baker has no value other than being an expiring contract.

I disagree on your assessment of Ron Baker, the guy is a excellent defensive player, he’s like having a coach on the floor always making the right pass and has a knack for being in the right place at the right time on the floor to make a impact on the game.

Mudiay is the odd man out, low iq chucker who can’t spread the defense or play defense. Other guy that have looked awful, kornet but to make room for tier can’t we just cut Noah?
fitzfarm
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10/5/2018  3:34 PM
FireHornacek wrote:


Just look at the "what the f**k do I do?" look on Frank's face. The guy is clueless. Cut him.


But we won't. A first round pick for some reason is sacred. N'Dour, Ike Diogu...two guys who are Hall Of Famers compared to Frank The Frenchman and those two were waived. But we will keep Frank The Frog.

Oh, but Frank actually stripped the ball from James Harden! Wow! Let's hang his jersey from the rafters at The Garden!

Trier should be on the team, Frank should go back to France. I said it. You all are just afraid to say it.

Have you watched frank’s defense, as well as his growth on offense, no way do you cut the potential best defensive guard in the league.... there I said it he’s going to be the best defensive guard in the nba. Also did you watch the nets game 4/4 9 pts off the bench...frank gets my vote to be a starter
Jmpasq
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10/6/2018  7:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/6/2018  7:15 AM
smackeddog wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:Baker plays winning basketball.... Mudiay I dunno what he does actually.

Yep, I have no idea what Mudiay is supposed to be good at- he's not athletic, he can't shoot, he doesn't have a good handle, he's poor at finishing at the rim and he's poor at defense and passing.

LOL, your right, there isn't one thing he does well. He has no redeeming qualities to his game. He is useless.

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