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what kind of mix signal is kyrie sending out
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knicks1248
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9/27/2018  11:32 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:https://www.complex.com/sports/2018/09/kyrie-irving-debunks-rumors-leaving-celtics-knicks

So he’s basically saying he’s not an idiot. He has it all in Boston. Why would he want to leave?

Then again we could have said that about him wanting to leave a great situation in Cleveland.

He never once stated he wanted to retire a Cav or have his Jersey hanging up in the rafters

ES
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Knixkik
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9/27/2018  11:38 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).


Even so, our situation is set up differently. We are a young, rebuilding team with a ton of young talent. If we miss out on the top guys, we still have that to fall back on. We aren't 100% reliant on free agency. We had some nice young guys in 2010, but nothing like today.
StarksEwing1
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9/27/2018  11:40 AM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).


Even so, our situation is set up differently. We are a young, rebuilding team with a ton of young talent. If we miss out on the top guys, we still have that to fall back on. We aren't 100% reliant on free agency. We had some nice young guys in 2010, but nothing like today.
Exactly. This is why i have been preaching building through the draft for 15 years.
knicks1248
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9/27/2018  11:47 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

ES
arkrud
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9/27/2018  12:12 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
StarksEwing1
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9/27/2018  12:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

Did i say he shouldnt come back? I WANT him back this season but only when he ready with no setbacks. Im just being honest. Im excited this year because of the youth but if you think we are winning 40 games you arent being realistic because we are gonna be without are best player at least half a season and the kids will be going through some growing pains. But that doesnt mean we will miss out on free agents. Like others have said this is is a totally different situation than 2010. We already have a young foundation plus all our picks
HofstraBBall
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9/27/2018  12:39 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:I never understood why Kyrie would have wanted to leave Boston in the first place, especially with Gordon coming back. He seems to have everything there. Money, the chance to be the top guy on a great team.... and a great team in general. Oh, and he potentially has the best coach in the league besides maybe Pop. If it’s possible that he’s having problems with his teammates again, like how he did with LeBron, then maybe we should be steering clear of him in the first place. That has Marbury written all over it.

Think Irving would be a great addition. Dont think Marbury is a good comparison. Do agree that there is no way he should be leaving Boston, a really good team, which he has a chance to lead to the finals year after year. Although you just never know what someone is truly thinking though. Stranger things have happened in the NBA. But gut feeling is there is no way he leaves Boston.

Regardless, think we have enough young talent on the team to have plenty to look forward to in the coming years. Still think we will be able to attract solid complimentary pieces in 2019, that may not need to be max guys, for us to be a solid playoff team in,2019.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
knicks1248
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9/27/2018  12:51 PM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

ES
Vmart
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9/27/2018  4:25 PM
To rely on Free agency is absolutely ridiculous. I maintain to this date the Knicks are not a destination of choice. If and when they start to win on a consistent basis only then will they become a destination of choice.
StarksEwing1
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9/27/2018  4:30 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

But you arent looking at the big picture. When you are rebuilding you are gonna have a few tough years...just the nature of the beast. Plus again KP is gonna be out until mid year so thats another hurdle. I still think the team can win some games but its more about the experience these kids are gonna go through and they will be better because of it. Free agents know talent and we have a lot of young talent
wargames
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9/27/2018  6:27 PM
Vmart wrote:To rely on Free agency is absolutely ridiculous. I maintain to this date the Knicks are not a destination of choice. If and when they start to win on a consistent basis only then will they become a destination of choice.

I agree fully. You got to win before people want to join you

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
arkrud
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9/27/2018  8:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2018  11:20 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

Frustration for impatient fans - yes.
Frustration for team gutters like Melo - yes.
Frustration for young home grown stars - no.
This is where they grow.
If you ever have a garden and watched the trees grow year over year and then see them fool of fruits you would know this wait is not a frustration.
It's a long lusting pleasure independent from wins and loses and any other luck.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Nalod
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9/28/2018  7:31 AM
Media fodder for NY media market to douse ones free agent dreams.
Let the season play out some, then project.
Boston has Chip aspirations and talent to match. It was a good statement.
knicks1248
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9/28/2018  8:57 AM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

Frustration for impatient fans - yes.
Frustration for team gutters like Melo - yes.
Frustration for young home grown stars - no.
This is where they grow.
If you ever have a garden and watched the trees grow year over year and then see them fool of fruits you would know this wait is not a frustration.
It's a long lusting pleasure independent from wins and loses and any other luck.


That like saying we should have kept toney douglas, danilo, chandler, lee, and watch them develop into all stars.

When I think back to some of the young guys we traded before they fully develop, I can't recall any of them turning into all stars

ES
StarksEwing1
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9/28/2018  9:42 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

Frustration for impatient fans - yes.
Frustration for team gutters like Melo - yes.
Frustration for young home grown stars - no.
This is where they grow.
If you ever have a garden and watched the trees grow year over year and then see them fool of fruits you would know this wait is not a frustration.
It's a long lusting pleasure independent from wins and loses and any other luck.


That like saying we should have kept toney douglas, danilo, chandler, lee, and watch them develop into all stars.

When I think back to some of the young guys we traded before they fully develop, I can't recall any of them turning into all stars

nobody is saying they all become stars but you dont succeed by just trades and free agency. You need to build through good draft then you can add on. Look you made it clear for a long time that you dont believe in building through the draft BUT to be fair we did the other way for over a decade and ended up worse. We are finally doing it the right way. We arent foolishly pulling the trigger anymore.
arkrud
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9/28/2018  10:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/28/2018  10:13 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

Frustration for impatient fans - yes.
Frustration for team gutters like Melo - yes.
Frustration for young home grown stars - no.
This is where they grow.
If you ever have a garden and watched the trees grow year over year and then see them fool of fruits you would know this wait is not a frustration.
It's a long lusting pleasure independent from wins and loses and any other luck.


That like saying we should have kept toney douglas, danilo, chandler, lee, and watch them develop into all stars.

When I think back to some of the young guys we traded before they fully develop, I can't recall any of them turning into all stars

This was like our previous season but without KP... for reasons all know very well.
If Melo was added to this group as FA it would be completely different story.
We would have assets to trade for second and possibly better star player that Melo and some nice role players to play with him.
All ways to build a team is important. Trades, FA, draft, and any other possible way to improve the team have to be used together in the framework of the plan and culture. This is just common sense in pro sport.
Is it hard? It is required very well balanced front office? Absolutely.
No one can win with bunch of idiots and bureaucrats.
And Knicks and MSG is a textbook example of this.
Hopefully even stiff mind like Dolan learned his lesson.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
9/28/2018  12:01 PM
How can anyone be excited about youth, going on about KP coming back in full unicorn mode on both ends of the floor, and then spend time wondering about whether a No-D flake like Kyrie wants to come here?

He grew up in NJ as a Knick fan. How quaint.

Mills: Hey, Uncle Drew, what's the word today?
Kyrie: Sounds like you're tampering, Stevie.
Mills: Nah, just wondering if you're going to post any instagram selfies in a Knicks uni soon...
Kyrie: Where've you been finishing in the East last couple of seasons?
Mills: It's a new day, Uncle Drew. KP's on the mend, got quality yoots out the wazoo...
Kyrie: Yeah, but I'm good. The rafters man, the rafters.
Mills: We got rafters here, too...
Kyrie: True that, but Russ says he'll do the next Pepsi movie free of charge if I stay...
Mills: <click>

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
9/28/2018  12:51 PM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

Frustration for impatient fans - yes.
Frustration for team gutters like Melo - yes.
Frustration for young home grown stars - no.
This is where they grow.
If you ever have a garden and watched the trees grow year over year and then see them fool of fruits you would know this wait is not a frustration.
It's a long lusting pleasure independent from wins and loses and any other luck.


That like saying we should have kept toney douglas, danilo, chandler, lee, and watch them develop into all stars.

When I think back to some of the young guys we traded before they fully develop, I can't recall any of them turning into all stars

This was like our previous season but without KP... for reasons all know very well.
If Melo was added to this group as FA it would be completely different story.
We would have assets to trade for second and possibly better star player that Melo and some nice role players to play with him.
All ways to build a team is important. Trades, FA, draft, and any other possible way to improve the team have to be used together in the framework of the plan and culture. This is just common sense in pro sport.
Is it hard? It is required very well balanced front office? Absolutely.
No one can win with bunch of idiots and bureaucrats.
And Knicks and MSG is a textbook example of this.
Hopefully even stiff mind like Dolan learned his lesson.

I look at Ainge as the BEST GM in sports, he makes trades that not only improves the current roster which was already good, but also adds high picks. he trades players at the right time, doesn't matter if they are young or old and very good.

I mean trading kg and them at the right time, trading I T even though he was the MVP of the team, trading a #1 draft pick to get the better player for slightly cheaper.

Those are the kind of risk you have to take to stay on top and give yourself options.

Mills and Perry are still some what too conservative to my liking. They seem to feel confident that FAs are going to come running to us no matter how bad we look, more so because of KP and FIZ..

ES
Nalod
Posts: 71170
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
9/28/2018  1:40 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Of course he's going to say he wants to stay. And maybe he does. He can't ignore these questions because it will be taken as him wanting to leave. So he has to answer them this way no matter what. Ultimately i think it comes down to how they play this season. The east is available for their taking. The general perception is they would get to the finals even without him, so we will see if he feels appreciated for his contributions at the end of the season. Remember this guy already has a title and 3 finals appearances. He wanted to escape Lebron and get credit and respect for his contributions to lifting a team, something he didn't get in Cleveland. He may run into the same issue in Boston. This might be Tatum's team, and Horford is the emotional leader. Does Irving become seen as the most important player on a finals team? That is what is comes down to for him to stay i think. If he leaves, i don't think the Boston fanbase even bats an eyelid. They are loaded and saw what this group is capable of without Kyrie. That has to matter to him. He's not Durant. Totally opposite personality.

It's not only up to how they play, it's more so about how we play and how we look, and the kind of potential we have.

IMO anything less then 38 wins and we're looking at 2010 all over again, Missing out on all the top tier FA and settling for a (amare type player).

Not really true. Considering KP will be out half the year and our team is young so free agents understand that the knicks arent making noise this particular season. But given all the young talent,a healthy KP,and another top pick, and cap space we wont miss out on free agents

The 50+ games we have loss over the last few years, explain to me what good did that bring.

We have loss 50+ games with KP and a halfway decent roster, and he hasn't shown he can stay healthy.

Thats why It's somewhat important for him to comeback this season for a # of good reasons

50+ loses shows that the Knicks were run wrong trying every possible shortcut to became relevant mediocre team year after year.
KP should be back only if he is 120% healthy and if this will be in November of 2019 so be it.
If we want to be an elite winning team we need to accept that we are not going to win more that 30-35 games for at least another 2 seasons.

IDK Dude, there's no way you walk away from a 50+ loss season feeling good about your direction, that many losses builds frustration, and that's when you start to deviate. I just don't see that as an attractive culture..

Frustration for impatient fans - yes.
Frustration for team gutters like Melo - yes.
Frustration for young home grown stars - no.
This is where they grow.
If you ever have a garden and watched the trees grow year over year and then see them fool of fruits you would know this wait is not a frustration.
It's a long lusting pleasure independent from wins and loses and any other luck.


That like saying we should have kept toney douglas, danilo, chandler, lee, and watch them develop into all stars.

When I think back to some of the young guys we traded before they fully develop, I can't recall any of them turning into all stars

This was like our previous season but without KP... for reasons all know very well.
If Melo was added to this group as FA it would be completely different story.
We would have assets to trade for second and possibly better star player that Melo and some nice role players to play with him.
All ways to build a team is important. Trades, FA, draft, and any other possible way to improve the team have to be used together in the framework of the plan and culture. This is just common sense in pro sport.
Is it hard? It is required very well balanced front office? Absolutely.
No one can win with bunch of idiots and bureaucrats.
And Knicks and MSG is a textbook example of this.
Hopefully even stiff mind like Dolan learned his lesson.

I look at Ainge as the BEST GM in sports, he makes trades that not only improves the current roster which was already good, but also adds high picks. he trades players at the right time, doesn't matter if they are young or old and very good.

I mean trading kg and them at the right time, trading I T even though he was the MVP of the team, trading a #1 draft pick to get the better player for slightly cheaper.

Those are the kind of risk you have to take to stay on top and give yourself options.

Mills and Perry are still some what too conservative to my liking. They seem to feel confident that FAs are going to come running to us no matter how bad we look, more so because of KP and FIZ..

Ainge is like the best and its true he did a great job. he built the Celts, got a chip, then tore it downa and rebuilt.
They are young and dynamic with a good future and present are contenders.

But its Also why you suck as much as you do. Ainge has been at this for 15 years in Boston.
Mills and Perry been in charge now a full year with just one Draft under their belt.
But you think they are too conservative? For all this team has been through your already bored with the rebuild. The lack of picks, the short term nature that left the team in an awful position and just one year into this regime you think they are "too conservative".

I'd give pop and Buford the best of vote if you want to go back long term as they have won chips and contended for a very long time. Ainge inherited some good assets that he had to trade for Garnett. He got ownership to buy into trading him and pierce. Good owner, good Management. Its why Spurs succeeded. Its why we have failed.

SupremeCommander
Posts: 34057
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

9/28/2018  3:41 PM
are you trying to **** Kyrie?
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
what kind of mix signal is kyrie sending out

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