Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:He wants to be here.
He was willing to come when the team was terrible (before last year)
He told KP at the AS Game "I want to play with you one day."
He's born and raised in West Orange a NJ suburb.
Knicks can pay him a max contract.

Timing isn't right. We still don't have enough high end talent on cost controlled deals. Im not going after prime FA's until Jacksons contracts are gone. We should be concentrating on getting rid of Hardaway Jr. for a shorter deal. I would consider a Chandler Parsons swap. Getting Kyrie and Porzingis on max deals will assure a shallow team.

Robinson
KP
Knox
2019 pick top 5
Frank

Burke
Dotson
2020 Pick 1st Top 10
2020 2nd
2019 2nd

Now you have enough depth to add max free GENTS

Bad timing? Signing Irving gives you two all stars in KP/Irving and you surround them with Frank/Knox/2019 first rounder and the other young guys. Jmpasq in a perfect world your comment about timing makes sense, but the basketball world isnt waiting for the Knicks to be ready.

You sign Irving. You dont give up any picks. You have Lance/Noah/Lee coming off the books the following year giving you a chance to add another star or high end FA, and you are still drafting and developing.

This is the clearest path first to relevance, and then to dominance.

Also I am not the biggest Kyrie homer, but he's elite talent and he's NOT Melo. He showed another level of play under Stevens and away from Lebron

TheGame wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Before paying him max i'd like to know why he wants to be here. To win and be hero, fine; to party (because Cle and Bos lack in that dept), not fine

I'd also be worried about paying someone max who always seems out for a quarter of the season for one reason or another.

He gets hurt alot... he will be 26. He's not my fav player but this is a no brainer.

Not for the max it isnt. Other ways to spend cap money, than on an injury prone player, even as good as Irving Like a deeper bench. This is how we got into trouble with Melo.

Honestly, if Frank progresses, I would rather sign Klay Thompson. GSW might be willing to do a sign and trade for Hardaway if Klay says he is leaving. GSW cannot afford to pay him the max and he is better defender than Kyrie

It is far from a no brainer.

He might be the only one we can get, but I might well prefer Klay Thompson.

The downside with Klay is he is older, and I don't think he can impact the game as much as Kyrie- I just worry about Kyrie turning into Derrick Rose 2.0.

jskinny35 wrote:Maybe I'm nuts but I personally wouldn't max out any player that isn't a 2 way player and not injury-prone. He may be the best we can obtain and maybe we should be lucky he's interested in us... that said we would have to construct the roster around him to cover for his defense and even then I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a passing point. The way the game is changing, KP will handle the ball, Frank a little, Knox seems to like to handle - every time I watch Kyrie I either seem him penetrating or shooting, passing not so much...

This is my thought process as well. I think this is what was expressed as the vision for the team. Smart two-way players. If we are ping to waver from that vision everytime a "Max" player becomes available, why even have a vision?

MS wrote:I think you have to pass on Kyrie.

He's a nice player and fun to watch, but the Celtics still won two rounds without him and Cleveland still made it to the NBA finals. If you lose a player that is supposedly a max level talent and replace them with George Hill and Larry Nance how much of a difference maker is he really? Not to mention, injured in college, severe injuries in the pro's. Just too much money to invest a guy like that.

I would rather throw a max offer to Klay Thompson or Jimmy Butler.

Cavs made it to the finals without Kyrie because they had LeBron in a weak east!!! The Cavs dont win the ring a couple of years ago without Kyrie!!
And Boston got as far as they did because of the weak east as well...They beat two young teams; the Bucks and Sixers.

The only reason they beat the Bucks is because they had home-court advantage...That Celtics team struggled on the road because they were missing Kyrie.

is he still ascending when we sign him, or is he rolling over. (e.g., there's a lot to like about butler but I see Noah 2.0 as well)

if we think Kryie's best days are still ahead (e.g., think how long Curry was in the league before he was The Man) you also have to give some weigh that our gain is also Celt's loss

MS wrote:I think you have to pass on Kyrie.

He's a nice player and fun to watch, but the Celtics still won two rounds without him and Cleveland still made it to the NBA finals. If you lose a player that is supposedly a max level talent and replace them with George Hill and Larry Nance how much of a difference maker is he really? Not to mention, injured in college, severe injuries in the pro's. Just too much money to invest a guy like that.

I would rather throw a max offer to Klay Thompson or Jimmy Butler.

"But Cle STILL made the NBA finals..."

And they lost.

Except when they had Kyrie. Then they won. In fact its the only time.

meloshouldgo wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Maybe I'm nuts but I personally wouldn't max out any player that isn't a 2 way player and not injury-prone. He may be the best we can obtain and maybe we should be lucky he's interested in us... that said we would have to construct the roster around him to cover for his defense and even then I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a passing point. The way the game is changing, KP will handle the ball, Frank a little, Knox seems to like to handle - every time I watch Kyrie I either seem him penetrating or shooting, passing not so much...

This is my thought process as well. I think this is what was expressed as the vision for the team. Smart two-way players. If we are ping to waver from that vision everytime a "Max" player becomes available, why even have a vision?

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

franco12 wrote:

he had 3 shots from outside the lane. I think GS would have defended him better this year.

I don't think anyone is doubting the talent, they are questioning the value of someone who is essentially hurt and not playing 50% of the time.

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Maybe I'm nuts but I personally wouldn't max out any player that isn't a 2 way player and not injury-prone. He may be the best we can obtain and maybe we should be lucky he's interested in us... that said we would have to construct the roster around him to cover for his defense and even then I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have a passing point. The way the game is changing, KP will handle the ball, Frank a little, Knox seems to like to handle - every time I watch Kyrie I either seem him penetrating or shooting, passing not so much...

This is my thought process as well. I think this is what was expressed as the vision for the team. Smart two-way players. If we are ping to waver from that vision everytime a "Max" player becomes available, why even have a vision?

Sorry... if you want to win or compete for a title you do this.
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

were talking about a ALL STAR, 1st team all nba, top 3 pg, and a guy who was a major, major factor in clevelands title, he's also the best ball handler in the league, and some of you have a problem with go all in for him. Not to mention he's only 26

I can't believe im saying this, but I agree with fish.

He's a max player, unless he has another injury plague 2018/19 season. If you keep frank and burke that secures that position for a good little while

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

he had 3 shots from outside the lane. I think GS would have defended him better this year.

I don't think anyone is doubting the talent, they are questioning the value of someone who is essentially hurt and not playing 50% of the time.

50%? Kyrie has never missed a game.

51 games
59 games
71 games
75 games
53 games
72 games
60 games for the Celtics and 0 play off games.

So I exaggerated slightly saying he's played only half.

Are you not worried about a player who has only played 70+ games in half of his seasons in the NBA?

No one is doubting the talent. I think some of us are rightly concerned with giving money to a player that hasn't been free of injuries.

so "concern...." lets talk about that.
A couple basic questions... after any injury has Kyrie appeared slower? He's gotten hurt a lot but certainly shows no effects from any of them.

I am concerned about KP's injuries as well. There will be no hesitation to sign him though... because we HAVE to. Same with Kyrie. I would love to only sign healthy guys. Look at the contract Embiid got. Think about it. This isnt the NFL. There isnt anything remotely close to Irving's talent out there. He's the game's best finisher. A guy who can score on the best defenders. Game 7 and Klay, Draymond... nobody could stop him.

The Knicks can afford depth. Kyrie is the dymanic scorer/finisher you add to a young long athletic defensive blue collar squad. We could be a year away.

You are right on the health... because if Kyrie stays healthy Cle might have two chips.
I am right on the value... because if Cle didnt pay Kyrie they would have none chips.

Dont let your concern get in the way of a chance at a title. Irving gives you a shot.

A healthy KP/Kyrie duo with a young supporting cast led by a developing Frank and Knox is a very intriguing idea, that's for sure. Add a 3 & D forward and we are onto something.