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If There Is No Trade... Who Gets Left Out of the 4/5?
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Nalod
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9/7/2004  2:40 PM

Vin will be our starting center. Kurt @ PF.

Nazr is vins backup, Sweets backs up Kurt.

JYD is odd man out with limited minutes. He will play 7-10 min per game. Sweets will get in foul trouble from time to time, or JYD gets some matchup min.

Vin is the comeback player of the year.

KT will put up nice numbers. Its Sweets job if he can take KT. KT trading value would be high at that point. We ahve to see about injuries. If Vin gets hurt or proves not durable, then KT stays.

Trading KT makes no sense unless we can upgrade well at anyup front postiions. Unless a package for Zach Randolph is available, or any decent center becomes available.

AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
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9/7/2004  2:43 PM
Trading KT makes no sense unless we can upgrade well at anyup front postiions. Unless a package for Zach Randolph is available, or any decent center becomes available.
Exactly
crzymdups
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9/7/2004  2:48 PM
I'm sorry, but to compare the current front court disaster to Ewing, Oakley, Mason and Smith is border-line heresy. Actually, it's plain old heresy.

The front court is a mess. The fact that you can make an argument for playing Vin Baker proves this.
¿ △ ?
bernard
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9/7/2004  2:51 PM
I'd like to see Sweets win the starting PF position in preaseason or early in reg. season. But he has to win it still, IMO. That would mean he's playing well and hard and would also mean he won't be playing w/ the "savior" pressure, as he won't have been annointed our future all-star, he'll have shown he deserves minutes.

Until he wins position, he shld get plenty of minutes backing up KT (he earned those back-up mins last year). Nazr should start at center unless Vinnie takes the job away from him, which, IMO, would not be a welcome development. It would mean that Nazr's hasn't improved, which I'm still hoping he'll do even if he's been in the league 5 years.

JYD gets foul/injury/change the tone of the game minutes, unless one of the other four really falls flat.
Bizzy211
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9/7/2004  2:54 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

I'm sorry, but to compare the current front court disaster to Ewing, Oakley, Mason and Smith is border-line heresy. Actually, it's plain old heresy.

The front court is a mess. The fact that you can make an argument for playing Vin Baker proves this.

Why can't u make an argument for playing Vin Baker? You should not undermine his talent. Vin Baker is a good PF still. He is only in his 11th year as a pro which means he has 2-3 decent yrs left. Even though 11 yrs is a long time considering his position and all the punishment PFs take, Baker can get my argument for playing anytime.
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Nalod
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9/7/2004  3:05 PM
Vin is the most skilled front court inside player. If his heart repair and renewed lease on life can inspire him to work hard and his body cooprerates, he can return to his near allstar level.

Its not a question of NAzr or not, in his day, Vin was 2x the player nazr can ever dream of being.

Nazr is Othella.
Bizzy211
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9/7/2004  3:15 PM
I guess the majority answer to this thread's question would be JYD soley on his lack of offensive skills as compared to the other players. Here's my rating of the player with the most skills:

1. Baker (best post-up and face-up moves on the team besides T.T)
2. K. Thomas (good 10-15ft shooter, no post up moves though)
4. Nazr (Better finisher at the rim than K.T, but is he consistant from 10-15ft away?)
3. Sweetney (Rookie last year and is still unproven. He does post better than K.T though.)
4. JYD (Born to play defense and bark like a dog. He's a better Dunker than K.T as well.)
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lrluis
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9/7/2004  5:29 PM
JYD is a special player to use in special situations like rebounding from the "3" or covering Houston's man, like Camby did.

Sweets should be a special player at the 1, like the 6'8" Paul Silas, Dave Cowens, Willis Reed, etc. Pick-and-roll players (isn't basketball about shooting? remember the Olympics?) like KT gets the minutes at 4 while Nazr backs up the 4/5. IT didn't say Nazr is the "center of the future" but he did say he was a "key" piece in the TT trade which sounds to me like he is a "key" combo player, whom IT loves.

Vin is good for 8-10 minutes like last year, just like IT signed him for. Remember, we should read into these trades/transactions and what they tell us. After all, IT is the better evaluator of talent than, let's say me---or Frank Layden?
Bonn1997
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9/7/2004  6:05 PM
Posted by lrluis:

JYD is a special player to use in special situations like rebounding from the "3" or covering Houston's man, like Camby did.

Sweets should be a special player at the 1, like the 6'8" Paul Silas, Dave Cowens, Willis Reed, etc. Pick-and-roll players (isn't basketball about shooting? remember the Olympics?) like KT gets the minutes at 4 while Nazr backs up the 4/5. IT didn't say Nazr is the "center of the future" but he did say he was a "key" piece in the TT trade which sounds to me like he is a "key" combo player, whom IT loves.

Vin is good for 8-10 minutes like last year, just like IT signed him for. Remember, we should read into these trades/transactions and what they tell us. After all, IT is the better evaluator of talent than, let's say me---or Frank Layden?
I think you got your numbers confused unless you really do want Sweetney playing Point Guard
mintyfreshness33
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9/7/2004  7:14 PM
we should play everyone, and spread the minute at the 4 and 5. sorta like what memphis did last season, everyone's gonna come on with a lot of energy and knowing if he makes a mistake he will be subbed will elevate their playing level.
Bonn1997
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9/7/2004  7:53 PM
Posted by mintyfreshness33:

we should play everyone, and spread the minute at the 4 and 5. sorta like what memphis did last season, everyone's gonna come on with a lot of energy and knowing if he makes a mistake he will be subbed will elevate their playing level.
No, that doesn't work if you want to be a successful playoff level team. All championship winning teams have closer to 8 man rotations. I don't mind playing all the guys in preseason and early in the regular season to find out who deserves the most minutes, but after that you have to tighten the rotation.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 09/07/2004 19:54:11]
nykfan4life
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9/7/2004  9:30 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

you can say the Knicks will never win a championship with a 6-9 center but will starting 6-10 Nazr win you a championship? Nope

When the Knicks won their first championship Willis Reed was their center and he was only 6'10" maybe closer to 6'9" , he did play against Chamberlain and Jabbar, which he beat Chamberlain in the first championship.

I know Nazr is not close to being Willis Reed, that's a given, but it takes a team to win a championship not just one player.
gunsnewing
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9/7/2004  9:42 PM
I'm just saying we're a better team with Kurt at center than with Nazr.

People think Chaney did a good job 2 seasons ago but the reason we were competitive problably has more to do with the fact that Kurt Thomas was our center and had a career year.
Bizzy211
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9/8/2004  10:18 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I'm just saying we're a better team with Kurt at center than with Nazr.

People think Chaney did a good job 2 seasons ago but the reason we were competitive problably has more to do with the fact that Kurt Thomas was our center and had a career year.

You do realize it is too early to say we are better with Kurt as our Center right? Who knows who improved during the off-season. And basicly IMO there really isn't much improvement Kurt Thomas can do unless he increases his hoping ability. Nazr can easily improve his outside shooting and he can come in ready to play Center and he can make us a much better team.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...this is a different year w/ different players on the team (and players are developing during the off-season) so we can't really say who we are a better team with. (especially when u are using "2 seasons ago" to cement ur argument.
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fishmike
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9/8/2004  10:21 AM
If Kurt's at center we might as well bring back Layden and Chaney.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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9/8/2004  10:22 AM
Posted by fishmike:

If Kurt's at center we might as well bring back Layden and Chaney.

Why does everyone hate Nazr? I really don't get this one?
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Marv
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9/8/2004  10:36 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

[Why does everyone hate Nazr? I really don't get this one?

I don't hate the guy but I find him real unreliable. You have no idea when he lines up if you're going to get one of his 19 point-15 rebound games or one of his 4 point-3 boards games.
fishmike
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9/8/2004  10:45 AM
who hates him? He's a good fit for our team. He's got a bad shot, bad footwork and bad hands, but he's still a better fit than Kurt because he's much stronger and more athletic. He can finish around the basket and is much better on the offensive boards. He's got less skill than Kurt but he's a center and has a big athletic body.

We finally have athletic wing players w/ Craw, TT and Marbury that can create space and move defenses.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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9/8/2004  10:46 AM
the problem with players like him is the 19 & 15's are few and far inbetween Kurt at least if healthy and at center can give you 12 & 9 AND ACTUAL DEFENSE on most nights.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09/08/2004 10:51:50]
gunsnewing
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9/8/2004  10:49 AM
I hate Kurt at PF because there are so many good PF's in the league and Kurt is overmatched each night
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