wargames wrote:Anyone who wants to trade Frank for Kemba is just being a short sighted Knights fan

I just dont see that. Year after next we have to give Kemba big money for a few years to a guy who while clutch and a good player does little else but score.

Do this right.... keep building the core, stay flexible and focus on building from with in.

We have seen many guys on the roster get better this year:
KP heading to the AS game
Frank can defend against elite NBA talent at 19. Already a rotation guy.
McD better defense than advertised
Kanter better defense than advertised
Lee posting career #s
THjr posting career #s AND playing good defense

The goal at the deadline should be to add a few picks or players that have long term potential here and/or acquire assets while elevating Dotson/Willy in the rotation.

Get some picks or a prospect for KOQ/Lee/Beas whoever... and push the other guys up.

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

What Frank is doing this year at his age is very impressive. Even if his offense is just OK he could still end up on the all defensive team every year. Knicks have sucked at defense for a decade plus. They arent going to have sustained winning until they build that up. Scorers are easier to find than lock down defenders.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

IF you look at Frank's game and history he most certainly has the scoring mentality. Its not how they are taught in EU, its all about the team first and in his case (young player) deferring to veteran players. That has been hammered into Frank and mistake free play dictated his minutes last year, not attacking and being aggressive. You just cant expect Frank to undo that training, at least not in his rookie year.

What Frank is doing this year at his age is very impressive. Even if his offense is just OK he could still end up on the all defensive team every year. Knicks have sucked at defense for a decade plus. They arent going to have sustained winning until they build that up. Scorers are easier to find than lock down defenders.

I was expressing the same concerns about Frank's offense before he was drafted (not alone) a former teammate praised him, but confessed that the Knicks wouldn't get a lot of scoring out of Frank.

When I mention scoring, its part of the package of being a floor general. You cant just defer. I get that players in Europe are taught to share the rock more. When you are at the bottom of the league in getting to the line, its not about where you're from.

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

No way on Fultz. I saw a video of him from the other day, and he still has major shooting issues. There's something going on there with nerve damage or whatever most likely. He's a bad gamble right now.

Im guessing its mental. Fultz should practice catching the ball with one hand and shooting for 10-15 minutes at a time, without his off hand to steady him. Catch and shoot the same way as well. Gradually increase the pace. Rebuilding that stroke from scratch.

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

No way on Fultz. I saw a video of him from the other day, and he still has major shooting issues. There's something going on there with nerve damage or whatever most likely. He's a bad gamble right now.

Im guessing its mental. Fultz should practice catching the ball with one hand and shooting for 10-15 minutes at a time, without his off hand to steady him. Catch and shoot the same way as well. Gradually increase the pace. Rebuilding that stroke from scratch.

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

No way on Fultz. I saw a video of him from the other day, and he still has major shooting issues. There's something going on there with nerve damage or whatever most likely. He's a bad gamble right now.

Im guessing its mental. Fultz should practice catching the ball with one hand and shooting for 10-15 minutes at a time, without his off hand to steady him. Catch and shoot the same way as well. Gradually increase the pace. Rebuilding that stroke from scratch.

You think it's mental? He doesn't seem like he can lift his arms above his head on that shot? And if it is mental, doesn't that concern you about his mental strength as an athlete?

Didn't say it was 100 percent mental, the kid had surgery. From what Ive read his muscle memory was totally out of whack because of the injury, because Fultz changed the way he shot to compensate for the injury.

From afar it sounds like he has to develop it again with his repaired shoulder. Could be the pain of using muscles again that have atrophied. I would want the Knicks to do their due dilligence of course, seek out the best doctors in that field. Would be surprised if this was something that Fultz could not overcome.

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.
Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

He's had half a season lol We're far from forming a complete evaluation. That said, I would probably push for this trade if were closer. I'm not feeling pushing our chips all in to be a lower seeded playoff team. We still have too many holes to fill to get stuck in that mentality. We need more young cheap pieces at this point.

knicks1248 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Frank.....not trading our 1st......impatience is why we have been in this mess the last decade and half

Who were we ever impatient with that we let go and they turned into a stud. Was it tony douglas, landry fields, Danilo,wilson chandler,Galloway, Lee, nate..Trades, FA, draft, can't rely on one more than the other.

Problem is that talk like this never allows us to find out....so many fans are day traders....as opposed to playing the long game...it is a risk...but at least let it playout....folks banging against their jail cells for Kemba...then he gets here and turns into a Steph...then they are banging on their jail cells to get him out.

If you can't see that Frank is not a uptempo PG that's going to break down defenses with his crossover,and penetrate for and-1's IDK what to tell you. You mind as well Fire JH now, because his roster (currently constructed)is not suited for his system, that's why they get so stagnate at times. Right now he's way over his head, and thats not how you develop someone.

Kemba, THJ, Kanter, lee and KP would be a top 5 starting unit in the NBA

Do we need a breakdown the defense point guard? If so...should have thrown the min at D. Rose....

#2 I don't believe now is the time to make a move like this. Knicks need to add another lotto talent. And then make a Kemba type of move packaging Lee and a future pick. This would secure us the most talent overall. Making a move like this before securing the lotto pick. Would prevent us from adding lotto talent and lock up our cap situation stopping us from being able to improve to contender status. If Frank is traded we would be trading a lotto pick, losing another one for the up coming draft probably a future pick as well in the deal for Kemba. And we would be locking up our cap situation. Waiting until after the draft we would only lose one pick which probably wont be a lotto one with the talent coming in.

knicks1248 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Frank.....not trading our 1st......impatience is why we have been in this mess the last decade and half

Who were we ever impatient with that we let go and they turned into a stud. Was it tony douglas, landry fields, Danilo,wilson chandler,Galloway, Lee, nate..Trades, FA, draft, can't rely on one more than the other.