BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.

Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.

When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.

BRIGGS wrote:Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops.

We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.

They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57050

What does building a foundation of youthful players have to do with this post in July? We added some vets as well to compliment the youth Sessions Kanter Beasley--still has nothing to do with this post? We may stink--Im not sure but it doesnt change the foundation

Phil is going to go down as the greatest GM/President in our history. We should all be apologizing to him for not respecting his greatness. You can say what you want about his veteran signings but he never sacrificed our future one iota. We have all of our draft picks as far as the eye can see. We have three (maybe more) great young pieces because of him. Thanks, Phil!

Bonn1997 wrote:

reub wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.

Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.

When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.

BRIGGS wrote:Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops.

We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.

They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57050

What does building a foundation of youthful players have to do with this post in July? We added some vets as well to compliment the youth Sessions Kanter Beasley--still has nothing to do with this post? We may stink--Im not sure but it doesnt change the foundation

Phil is going to go down as the greatest GM/President in our history. We should all be apologizing to him for not respecting his greatness. You can say what you want about his veteran signings but he never sacrificed our future one iota. We have all of our draft picks as far as the eye can see. We have three (maybe more) great young pieces because of him. Thanks, Phil!

Nothing he did sacrificed our future one iota? You can't be serious. So if he hadn't committed $250 mil to Melo, Lee, and Noah, we would not be in position to make the future even one iota better than it looks now? If that money were available and to be used on FAs in their 20s, the future would not be one iota better?

While the NTC & Noah contracts were pretty harmful. We had still had cap space going on 3 yrs in a row, the stud young talent stayed put or signed with contenders. The only thing Phil could have really done with that cap space was eat ugly contracts for more picks hoping to have enough young talent parlay into trades.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

reub wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He gets killed by the media and some fans--but he set the best foundation I have seen in 25 years.

Trading for Carmelo with all of our assets to play with a bunch of 36 years old teammates--thats not a foundation--thats shooting all your bullets.

When have we had more quality youthful depth? We were littered with mediocre vets for 20 years.

BRIGGS wrote:Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops.

We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.

They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57050

What does building a foundation of youthful players have to do with this post in July? We added some vets as well to compliment the youth Sessions Kanter Beasley--still has nothing to do with this post? We may stink--Im not sure but it doesnt change the foundation

Phil is going to go down as the greatest GM/President in our history. We should all be apologizing to him for not respecting his greatness. You can say what you want about his veteran signings but he never sacrificed our future one iota. We have all of our draft picks as far as the eye can see. We have three (maybe more) great young pieces because of him. Thanks, Phil!

Nothing he did sacrificed our future one iota? You can't be serious. So if he hadn't committed $250 mil to Melo, Lee, and Noah, we would not be in position to make the future even one iota better than it looks now? If that money were available and to be used on FAs in their 20s, the future would not be one iota better?

While the NTC & Noah contracts were pretty harmful. We had still had cap space going on 3 yrs in a row, the stud young talent stayed put or signed with contenders. The only thing Phil could have really done with that cap space was eat ugly contracts for more picks hoping to have enough young talent parlay into trades.

Paris907 wrote:There was so much anti phil vitriol that I only occasionally defended him. Hardest part was forgetting he was with the Bulls and Lakers all those years. If Wily surprises us all and becomes a poor mans Gasol, and Nitty is the cure for what ails us, and Picjing KP was a 10 year all star, then if this team gels and wins in a meaningful nodules way and goes to a final, Phil will be remembered and the press and fans will take their appropriate back seat and say that he was a genius coach and a Helluva exec too despite his mistakes along the learning curve

Lots of IFs. How bout some facts?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/6/28/15886082/phil-jackson-fired-trades-picks-transactions-knicks-president

Not mentioned. Most important:
Phil wasted 3 years pushing the Triangle. His vision of the Triangle as the future of the Knicks Was short sighted and pushed by his bloated ego.

Saying Phil was a good Prez cuz KP, Willy, or Frank may turn out to be good is like saying IT was good because he drafted Ariza, Lee and Chandler.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Paris907 wrote:There was so much anti phil vitriol that I only occasionally defended him. Hardest part was forgetting he was with the Bulls and Lakers all those years. If Wily surprises us all and becomes a poor mans Gasol, and Nitty is the cure for what ails us, and Picjing KP was a 10 year all star, then if this team gels and wins in a meaningful nodules way and goes to a final, Phil will be remembered and the press and fans will take their appropriate back seat and say that he was a genius coach and a Helluva exec too despite his mistakes along the learning curve

Lots of IFs. How bout some facts?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/6/28/15886082/phil-jackson-fired-trades-picks-transactions-knicks-president

Not mentioned. Most important:
Phil wasted 3 years pushing the Triangle. His vision of the Triangle as the future of the Knicks Was short sighted and pushed by his bloated ego.

Saying Phil was a good Prez cuz KP, Willy, or Frank may turn out to be good is like saying IT was good because he drafted Ariza, Lee and Chandler.

There are 2 “ifs” ! And one was a 8th pick and at the time an 18 year old. That’s ballsy and an “if” by definition. KP is beyond an If and we know what we have in THJr. Thus the other phil play was the 35th pick in Wily. The “if” isn’t if he will succeed. Per 36 minutes his stats are bona fide. The question is how good will he be. Will He be a two way reboudning machine that can score 16-18 per night. Yes, there are question marks and any knowledgeable Knick fan knows that. When your three players average 22 years of age that is kinda of a gimme unless your Russell Westbrook.

I've a theory on the "trade Porzingis" bidness. It was a Zen move, the obvious intent being to show who was the boss, but more.

I think the real point of broadcasting that Phil would listen to offers, though, had to do with all the rumors days before the draft about Dallas' interest in Frank, not the least of which was flipping their picks with Minnesota from nine to seven, ahead of the Knicks at eight.

Minnesota was thought to be interested in Markkanen and generally in need of a big and, thus, could confidently drop behind the Knicks with the assumption NY would take Monk or Smith if Frank was gone.

By putting out that "crazy Phil" notion that Porzingis might be sent out of town, Phil established the possibility that Markkanen might be the natural replacement and therefore not available at the ninth pick.

Of course, matters evolved. Markkanen was picked by Minnesota at seven but then sent off to Chicago in the draft day deal. Whether or not Minnesota actually entertained thoughts of trading with Dallas before the Butler trade developed is not clear. But it would have made sense for Phil to be proactive if he really wanted Frank.

NYKBocker wrote:Absolutely! 3 things I thought he messed up on.

1. NTC
2. Noah contract
3. Handling of Melo but I think he did that to force Melo to take out the NTC.

Getting yoothier and getting fundamentally sound players is a great way to build a foundation. This has been the most happy I have been about our situation coming into a season since the offseason when we signed Childs and Houston and traded for Larry Johnson. The possibilities are endless and I am getting drunk with orange and blue koolaid.

Bit of a homer but Noah's story hasn't been told just yet! I agree about the reasoning of his Nelo handling. NTC may have been the only way to sign him and Nolan may have had a hand. Also Phil may have wanted out anyways. Gets to go down in Knicks lore if we can get this squad rollin!

Swishfm3 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Question....How can anyone be on the right path when every decision made was based on the F..in TRIANGLE? Sighhhhh.
You guys are talking bout draft picks, signings, NTC clause? Who cares? Every Prez can't bat 1000. However, NO Prez makes all his player, coaching decisions based on an antiquated system which he tries to force feed, to all his player's and coaches, regarsless of their natural strengths or styles.

Biggest issue I had with Phil is that he was not here to build a winning team. He was here to expand his Triangle legacy.

This 100x

Have to add the way he handled Melo. It was never his *phil* fault...he had to blame someone and unfortunately, that led to Melo stock dropping in the trade market.

Regarding Phil dropping Melos stock value. I think that’s bogus!!!
The truth of it as NY Knick fans and GMs know, Father Time dropped Melo’s value. Melo not playing D dropped Melo’s value, Melo’s piss poor shooting in the 4th quarter and for the season overall dropped Melo’s value. Phil didn’t drop it Pil just states the obvious and he was and is better off elsewhere. What Phil saw is that Melo isn’t a winner and rubbed poor influence on KP and others. Melo won the battle but Phil the war.