Oh man Melo is gone

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Some of his stats seemed to improve dramatically with Westbrook...No?

Just saying.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Good point. Durant and Westbrook drew alot of attention which gave a lot of open and one on one looks. He'll have to prove he can still put up those numbers with less talented teammates. The dude has always been able to score tho.

In OKC it was just Westbrook last season. Kanter had his best year. This year he's going to be surrounded by scorers at every other position.

You can make the case that his best stretch of ball came after he was traded to OKC when they still had Durant. We scorers, but a THJ, KP and whoever else is out there won't equal the gravitational pull that a Durant and Westbrook creates. I'm hopeful Kanter will continue to improve, but it will be a challenge.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Some of his stats seemed to improve dramatically with Westbrook...No?

Just saying.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

Good point. Durant and Westbrook drew alot of attention which gave a lot of open and one on one looks. He'll have to prove he can still put up those numbers with less talented teammates. The dude has always been able to score tho.

In OKC it was just Westbrook last season. Kanter had his best year. This year he's going to be surrounded by scorers at every other position.

You can make the case that his best stretch of ball came after he was traded to OKC when they still had Durant. We scorers, but a THJ, KP and whoever else is out there won't equal the gravitational pull that a Durant and Westbrook creates. I'm hopeful Kanter will continue to improve, but it will be a challenge.

IMO there's enough talent on the Knicks if they play as a team and use Ball and Player Movement. They don't have to rely on having a dominant scoring threat. They need to trust the offense and each other.

This is going to be a team more in the mold of the Atlanta Hawks from a few years ago. Getting it done with team work and execution. Of course it's always easier when you have a Westbrook or Harden doing most of the work but there's another way to get things done.

reub wrote:One can criticize certain aspects of Kanter's game but having a WS48 of .200 over the past three years cannot be dismissed as an anomaly. That's real, elite production and a substantial positive impact upon his team and their winning record.

It went down from .226 to .183 AFTER Durant left.

I can't say that I'm an advanced stat geek...but I'm intelligent enough to reach conclusions from these numbers.

Kanter is a very good offensive big, and if he really lost all the weight they're talking about, maybe...maybe, he has more success on the defensive end, but you are not going to see anything near the efficiency numbers he put up in OKC.

WaltLongmire wrote:

reub wrote:One can criticize certain aspects of Kanter's game but having a WS48 of .200 over the past three years cannot be dismissed as an anomaly. That's real, elite production and a substantial positive impact upon his team and their winning record.

The year he was traded from Utah to OKC...MID-SEASON, it went from .099 to .220.

It went down from .226 to .183 AFTER Durant left.

I can't say that I'm an advanced stat geek...but I'm intelligent enough to reach conclusions from these numbers.

Kanter is a very good offensive big, and if he really lost all the weight they're talking about, maybe...maybe, he has more success on the defensive end, but you are not going to see anything near the efficiency numbers he put up in OKC.

I'm sure there will be some drop off due in part to the adjustment period but in terms of Kanter's efficiency being reduced due to not playing with Westbrook and Durant, I think this is perhaps being overstated. The Knicks have to get things done differently than if they had a Westbrook and KD drawing all the attention but different doesn't mean worse.

The way the Knicks will have to do things is by letting the Offense create the good looks rather than living off the greatness of a star player. This is not a foreign concept. It's how the game is played by most teams outside of the few who have Elite Stars. The more our players TRUST the SYSTEM and look to execute properly the more success they will have.

Just look at these example of the Knicks running Spread PnR and how they were able to get great looks simply by executing the offense.

Jeff has other sets he uses that can be just as effective as long as the players execute and have ball and player movement. Set good screens and make good cuts.

Will be interesting with Kanter and Hernangomez. We have two guys there who may give us the most skill and ability on offense from any team with a 1-2 punch at the 5 spot. The problem will be what they could do on defense. They will need to be part of a team that scores in the 110 point range. We won't win games unless we're a juggernaut on offense.

I do think Kanter/Willy as a combination at 5 could give you so much offense upside and impact that it negates the defensive downside.
Wbat we need is KP to really step up as a defender at 4.
We need to start Lance Thomas maybe at 3 because he can defend.
Will Tim play defense at 2?
We know Ron and Frank will bring the defensive effort and impact at 1.

BigDaddyG wrote:

nixluva wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

reub wrote:One can criticize certain aspects of Kanter's game but having a WS48 of .200 over the past three years cannot be dismissed as an anomaly. That's real, elite production and a substantial positive impact upon his team and their winning record.

The year he was traded from Utah to OKC...MID-SEASON, it went from .099 to .220.

It went down from .226 to .183 AFTER Durant left.

I can't say that I'm an advanced stat geek...but I'm intelligent enough to reach conclusions from these numbers.

Kanter is a very good offensive big, and if he really lost all the weight they're talking about, maybe...maybe, he has more success on the defensive end, but you are not going to see anything near the efficiency numbers he put up in OKC.

I'm sure there will be some drop off due in part to the adjustment period but in terms of Kanter's efficiency being reduced due to not playing with Westbrook and Durant, I think this is perhaps being overstated. The Knicks have to get things done differently than if they had a Westbrook and KD drawing all the attention but different doesn't mean worse.

The way the Knicks will have to do things is by letting the Offense create the good looks rather than living off the greatness of a star player. This is not a foreign concept. It's how the game is played by most teams outside of the few who have Elite Stars. The more our players TRUST the SYSTEM and look to execute properly the more success they will have.

Just look at these example of the Knicks running Spread PnR and how they were able to get great looks simply by executing the offense.

Jeff has other sets he uses that can be just as effective as long as the players execute and have ball and player movement. Set good screens and make good cuts.

We won't know for sure until games are played. Another thing to consider is that he no longer has Steven Adams to help cover for him defensively. He's not a rim protector so that will impact how we use Enes as well. KOQ might end being the best option to pair with him off the bench. Kyle does move the ball, is a decent shotblocker and can face up. Maybe he extends his range to three this season?

It's not like we have no talent. We just have a lot of YOUNG talent that is still developing but they have significant talent that can be successful if they trust each other and EXECUTE properly. That's what you saw in the video above. It's not Rocket Science. If Baker and Willy can work a PnR why wouldn't Kanter be able to do the same things? In fact we have more shooters now than before. These kids can grow together and gain confidence in their games. We have just enough Vets to help the process along IMO.

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm convinced that playing the right way can make up for not having a superstar. But you need the right players who fit together-on offense and defense. I'm not sure we have that mix. We will suck this year. No mistake about it. I'm cool with that because we're rebuilding. We still have to think about how these players for going forward tho. We're getting their, but these pieces don't fit together yet and we have to free up cap space.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I'm convinced that playing the right way can make up for not having a superstar. But you need the right players who fit together-on offense and defense. I'm not sure we have that mix. We will suck this year. No mistake about it. I'm cool with that because we're rebuilding. We still have to think about how these players for going forward tho. We're getting their, but these pieces don't fit together yet and we have to free up cap space.

with or without melo we would have sucked to be fair. At least now we can start building the team around the building blocks of the future. The good news is that we have 3 picks so far(probably will add more) so even if we end up in the lottery we add more young talent. However i think we can surprise people

I don't think we suck at all. We added ThJr, Frank, Kanter, Sessions, Dotson, Beasely among others and lost two ball hoggers and no defense guys. We've got depth everywhere, although some of it is young and unproven. We've got about 20 guys who will be in real competition for playing time and most of them are 25 or younger. I like it!