CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:starting with:

What changes does the coach make? No more Phil and triangle.. Is Jeff on his own? Has Mills and/or Perry given him direction?

What does the PG rotation look like? Frank, Baker, Sessions and Jack.
Do any of the invited guards makes the team? Jaramaz? XRM? Randle?

What's Lee's role?

Is Melo a Knick? Or is he waiting for a trade? Is he looking to move the ball or working on getting his shots off?

Who starts at center? Where does Noah fit in? Is KOQ trade bait?

Kuz, Lance, Beasley... who wins those minutes?

Melo's side is expecting a trade before Friday.

Jack or Sessions will be the stating PG with Frank getting most of the second unit minutes.
Think Lee and Baker get most of minutes at 2 and Dotson spot minutes.

Prediction for starting lineup

Noah
KP
THJR
Lee
Jack

2nd. Unit
Willy
Anderson
Beasley
Baker
Frank

Unless they bench Noah and put KP at 5 and Anderson at 4 in starting lineup.

Think JH will also mix in small ball with may KP at 5, Beasley/LT at 4, Timmy at 3, 2 PG's.

Makes KO, Kuz, one of Vet PG's trade bait.

I have heard that about Melo as well... but we have also hear this all summer. There are certainly some mixed message with guys like Beasley talking about being thrilled to play with his buddy Melo. I do think Det is a viable destination for Ryan Anderson thus facilitating a Melo trade but again.. we have head this stuff all summer.

That being said Im thinking similar things you are regarding the rotation.
My first guess was (minus Melo and not factoring in for any players returned)
Noah, KP, Sessions, THjr with the 3 spot up for grabs between Lee, Kuz, Lance, Beas

I REALLY like Frank/Willy being featured in the 2nd unit running the P&R all day. Frank ran it well in EU and Willy sets bruising picks and is a great passer and finisher.

Question... Noah cant play for a month (12 games suspended for PEDs). Who starts? Remember KOQ wasnt handed anything last year, he earned his minutes.

Melo trade depends on how long Knicks pretend keeping him is a viable option. Don't think anyone is buying that. Specially Melo's people.

True forgot about Noah. Guess durin Noah's suspension we will have Willy starting with KP playing some 5. As JH did last year with Noah out. Think KO may be part of Melo deal as may be some other pieces. Knicks will have to play Noah, once he is back, in order to build up his value.

why would jh and mills go see melo play in pick up games if they had no interest in keeping him?

riddle me that..

They wanted to eat crow?

Lol. Think they were curious to see HodieMelo. Or maybe in case Houston stops all discussions. As a Melo fan, think he is better off in Houston. As a Knick fan, it's time to see which young piece is the real deal. Talk is that they are waiting to get KP's input.

Nalod wrote:Love the answers. we form our own opinions on what we read and cannot remember if it was reliable source or our own sense from reading all.
I get snarky when I read Isola as if he has all the bad stuff figured out. According to him, KP hates Jeff and will leave.
Validated by the highly profiled KP exit drama.
Moving on, lets see what the real deal is. Rest assured KP will be catered to. Phil was given his money and told to leave because he wanted to trade the kid.
Certainly eating one year of Hornacek's contract to make the unicorn happy is not a problem.
This is a big season for KP also, its time for him to begin to show greater maturity on and off the court. Sure he is a kid and his two year rise to stardom is no doubt a rush for any kid with a dream. But soon the big money will come and he must understand the strings that are attached to it. If he does not its better to trade him before he gains his freedom.
I don't want that to happen. I root for his success.

All the while one should expect the Melo era to end sooner than later. I admire the knicks position and Melo's as well as in the post Phil Era all professionalism that has gone into this. Melo himself has never been a epicenter of drama as he even handled his departure from Denver and his free agency with a certain restrain. Knicks on the other hand finally have shown a level themselves by quietly divorcing from Phil (we have not seen any summertime "Phil files") and instead Mills has constructed a starphuch free front office with experienced personnel.

If there was ever a reason for hope its not in the form of a "Prophet" like Phil, a sage like Walsh, or the snake oil salesmanship of Isiah, its Scott Perry and his boss Steve Mills.
This perhaps more than any other sign shows Dolan is detached from the team. Maybe some of you are not impressed because we don't have guys that are from programs that have won before and we like that sort of thing. Not a bad idea, but before teams win they usually have to make changes and more times that not the "no names" are elevated not from past achievements but the ones they create themselves. Its rare you can import an culture. It takes time and patience.

Spurs were born from Larry Brown but did its greatest work after he had left. Im am thinking that Phil did point the team in the right direction and if it took 60 mil and dolans attention then it was worth every penny. No, Phil did not make any great moves but he cleaned enough house and kept to building thru the draft.

LIke Pop is the true architect, not Larry Brown, This team is now Mill's and Perry.

Lots of questions. Answers soon enough!

While I agree with most of the questions raised, I am suspect at your willingness to discount Dolan.
Jackson came in at $12mm year to take the Heat off Dolan. When Phil wanted to purge Melo - Dolan was involved, when Phil considered purging KP it was Dolan. It’s always Dolan. Perry and Mills matter but
At this corporate conglomerate it’s about return on investment. $3.5 billion value and we are rebuilding. HOrnachek, Perry and Mills all expendable If FA money not spent prudently and the fans don’t get a competitive club in 2 years. When KP/Wily/Frank and THJr are joined by one more lottery pick and a FA at $30mm per, the Knicks will be expected to compete with Boston and Phili for the conference. Dolan matters, always and most unfortunately

Nalod wrote:
I think from day one Dolan and Phil had some understanding about melo and his inclusion both as a player with potential to change (Melo on record as saying he would sacrifice his game) and the logic f him as a star and what that means on the court and as a trade asset.
The NTC was a continuation of that understanding. I get the sense that Phil thought he could field a competitive team while rebuilding. More than a "Sense" , its what he did.
Phil mentality thru his knick tenure was more as a coach. He wanted to move KP because of his attitude than seek to change another coach.
Perhaps it was more of his public display of outing Melo and now KP that made it obvious he was cooked. My guess is Dolan trusts Mills and perhaps this was on him to decide.
I'm just observing over many years and of course the McKinsey consulting thing they did that forced Grunwald out, an Mills hired pre Phil.

Let's be happy Isiah ever was in the conversation.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
I think from day one Dolan and Phil had some understanding about melo and his inclusion both as a player with potential to change (Melo on record as saying he would sacrifice his game) and the logic f him as a star and what that means on the court and as a trade asset.
The NTC was a continuation of that understanding. I get the sense that Phil thought he could field a competitive team while rebuilding. More than a "Sense" , its what he did.
Phil mentality thru his knick tenure was more as a coach. He wanted to move KP because of his attitude than seek to change another coach.
Perhaps it was more of his public display of outing Melo and now KP that made it obvious he was cooked. My guess is Dolan trusts Mills and perhaps this was on him to decide.
I'm just observing over many years and of course the McKinsey consulting thing they did that forced Grunwald out, an Mills hired pre Phil.

Let's be happy Isiah ever was in the conversation.

Rosen in a podcast said Phil had total basketball autonomy. He said every move was Phil's, there was no involvement from Dolan. I posted a link to the podcast but I will try to repost it. I found it to be one of the best interviews I have heard in a long time. But, Melo's deal is on Phil.

Honest question... you really believe Dolan had no input on Melo? That he just said to Phil that he doesnt care and just do what you think is best? That jives with you?

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
I think from day one Dolan and Phil had some understanding about melo and his inclusion both as a player with potential to change (Melo on record as saying he would sacrifice his game) and the logic f him as a star and what that means on the court and as a trade asset.
The NTC was a continuation of that understanding. I get the sense that Phil thought he could field a competitive team while rebuilding. More than a "Sense" , its what he did.
Phil mentality thru his knick tenure was more as a coach. He wanted to move KP because of his attitude than seek to change another coach.
Perhaps it was more of his public display of outing Melo and now KP that made it obvious he was cooked. My guess is Dolan trusts Mills and perhaps this was on him to decide.
I'm just observing over many years and of course the McKinsey consulting thing they did that forced Grunwald out, an Mills hired pre Phil.

Let's be happy Isiah ever was in the conversation.

Rosen in a podcast said Phil had total basketball autonomy. He said every move was Phil's, there was no involvement from Dolan. I posted a link to the podcast but I will try to repost it. I found it to be one of the best interviews I have heard in a long time. But, Melo's deal is on Phil.

Honest question... you really believe Dolan had no input on Melo? That he just said to Phil that he doesnt care and just do what you think is best? That jives with you?

i do think it was all Phil. But I listened to the podcast. Also, if Phil wanted it out there that Melo's deal was on Dolan, would he use Rosen to put that out there? Rosen was adamant that Dolan had no involvement during Phil's tenure.

Sure.. its all on Phil. If thats what you need, but its not reality based. It just isnt. Dolan remains at the top of the pyramid now, just as he did when Phil was here. Seeing is believing.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
I think from day one Dolan and Phil had some understanding about melo and his inclusion both as a player with potential to change (Melo on record as saying he would sacrifice his game) and the logic f him as a star and what that means on the court and as a trade asset.
The NTC was a continuation of that understanding. I get the sense that Phil thought he could field a competitive team while rebuilding. More than a "Sense" , its what he did.
Phil mentality thru his knick tenure was more as a coach. He wanted to move KP because of his attitude than seek to change another coach.
Perhaps it was more of his public display of outing Melo and now KP that made it obvious he was cooked. My guess is Dolan trusts Mills and perhaps this was on him to decide.
I'm just observing over many years and of course the McKinsey consulting thing they did that forced Grunwald out, an Mills hired pre Phil.

Let's be happy Isiah ever was in the conversation.

Rosen in a podcast said Phil had total basketball autonomy. He said every move was Phil's, there was no involvement from Dolan. I posted a link to the podcast but I will try to repost it. I found it to be one of the best interviews I have heard in a long time. But, Melo's deal is on Phil.

Honest question... you really believe Dolan had no input on Melo? That he just said to Phil that he doesnt care and just do what you think is best? That jives with you?

i do think it was all Phil. But I listened to the podcast. Also, if Phil wanted it out there that Melo's deal was on Dolan, would he use Rosen to put that out there? Rosen was adamant that Dolan had no involvement during Phil's tenure.

OK. That doesnt strike me as a common sense conclusion though. Dolan gave ZERO input to Phil regarding his cash cow player? That makes no sense. I am not trying to pin Melo on Dolan or absolve Phil. Phil gave him a bad deal for the Knicks. Giving him a NTC was bad but if that was a deal breaker and Dolan said "it would be disappointing to lose such a valuable player to another team" what do you think happens?

Sure.. its all on Phil. If thats what you need, but its not reality based. It just isnt. Dolan remains at the top of the pyramid now, just as he did when Phil was here. Seeing is believing.

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:starting with:

What changes does the coach make? No more Phil and triangle.. Is Jeff on his own? Has Mills and/or Perry given him direction?

What does the PG rotation look like? Frank, Baker, Sessions and Jack.
Do any of the invited guards makes the team? Jaramaz? XRM? Randle?

What's Lee's role?

Is Melo a Knick? Or is he waiting for a trade? Is he looking to move the ball or working on getting his shots off?

Who starts at center? Where does Noah fit in? Is KOQ trade bait?

Kuz, Lance, Beasley... who wins those minutes?

Hornacek will be allowed to run this team as he sees fit, except benching Melo and Zinger, if healthy. Other than that, he can do what he wants. The Baker signing is an indication that he's on the chopping block this year and 99 percent chance he gets fired at some point. Mills wants to save his job. Perry wants to distance himself from a sinking ship. So in order to "blame" Hornacek, they need to be able to say they let him have his own way ( within the previous limitations) and run things his way.

As long as Hornacek is coach, Baker will likely start if healthy and doesn't completely tank. The overpay is similar to the Giants making Antrelle Rolle the highest paid safety in the league after getting Perry Fewell as defensive coordinator ( if you want me to do something with this team, give me something to work with...)

Lee will start and get heavy usage to try to increase his trade value. He's trade bait.

Noah will start at center if healthy. Even if it's just ceremonial, he's the aged veteran at the pivot and honestly they need as much defense as they can get.

Lance Thomas will get minutes as much as health and production allow, to try to trade him later. I think he has close to no trade value, but the team will have to try anyway. At least he gives full effort. So sad that's a rarity in the NBA, when every player should have that as a baseline standard.

Melo doesn't care about winning. He seems content to rot in NY and wait to see if the offseason will have teams with cap room to give him a four year deal. IF he gets HURT BADLY ENOUGH, he will opt in, rehab and dog it next year and be a distraction for yet another year. My guess is he will passively aggressively ball stop and silently use stalking horses in the press to try to force the Knicks to buy him out at 100 percent in cash to his contract. Behavior like his ( don't care, don't try, holding his team hostage) and Kobe Bryant means the league will probably change the rules again during the next labor war. The owners want the NFL system of widespread use of non guaranteed contracts and I think the league will finally dig down and eat the two year long labor it would take to get it.

nixluva wrote:

reub wrote:This year we're going to see the fruits of Phil coming to fruition. Ntilikina, KP, Willy, O'Quinn, Baker, Dotson, Kornet, XRM (and later on Jaramaz) will begin to shine. Thanks, Phil!

. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the process.

Hornacek asked about Melo, said "if you dont think Im going to start him youre crazy (laughs)"