knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Good team

Warriors
Draft players. Also have spent millions for extra 2 nd rounders
Do not trade draft picks for players
Use free agency to acquire other players

Just one example. Could throw the Spurs in there-- could throw Boston in there

Is San Antonio giving up 2 lottery picks Znd 2 additional draft picks for anyone? No they never do
Draft opportunistic trade and straight free agency

GSW and the spurs have not won the last 12 NBA TITLES, NEWS flash, 20 others teams did not follow the spurs and GSW model and won titles trading away picks.
BUUUUUT

IF you want to copy the spurs, start with the ownership, then front office, then coach.

IF you want to be like GSW, get a system tailor made for your roster, they have had 3 (kerr, luke, ,mike)coaches and didn't miss a beat

1 team out of 30 wins the championship. Of course any approach has a low probability. Building with draft picks and smart trades/signings is the least bad approach.

draft picks, trades, signings...is there any other way to acquire players?

You're asking if there's an alternative to keeping draft picks? Yeah, giving up draft picks to starphuck.

So your suggesting that we shouldn't give up picks for a current stars like, Irving, PG13, cj, cp3. kd, klay, love, ect.

There's like a 2% chance of a franchise drafting a super star, 5% chance of drafting a star, those odds are pretty damn low to make a case that that is the route to go.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The report out now is that the Cavs are seeking a deal similar to the Melo deal for Kyrie. I find it interesting that the Melo deal seems to be the benchmark for a "haul", yet didn't include any future stars, veteran stars, or high draft picks in return. A return of Bledsoe, Warren, and the miami picks trumps the knicks package for melo, in my opinion.

Giving up "a lot" is not synonymous with giving up a "star" though. If you're giving up multiple picks and NBA starters and sacrificing substantial long-term cap space, that is a lot IMO.

Right, from our perspective i understand the value lost. What i don't understand, is why this deal still gets used as a benchmark 6 years later for a huge return. Compare it to the Nets deal for Deron Williams for example; Derrick Favors was the 3rd pick the previous year and was considered to have huge upside. Devin Harris was an all-star the previous year. And 2 future first round picks, one of which was the 3rd pick in the next draft. How does the Knicks package even compare to that? You're talking back to back #3 picks and a borderline all-star veteran.

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Good team

Warriors
Draft players. Also have spent millions for extra 2 nd rounders
Do not trade draft picks for players
Use free agency to acquire other players

Just one example. Could throw the Spurs in there-- could throw Boston in there

Is San Antonio giving up 2 lottery picks Znd 2 additional draft picks for anyone? No they never do
Draft opportunistic trade and straight free agency

GSW and the spurs have not won the last 12 NBA TITLES, NEWS flash, 20 others teams did not follow the spurs and GSW model and won titles trading away picks.
BUUUUUT

IF you want to copy the spurs, start with the ownership, then front office, then coach.

IF you want to be like GSW, get a system tailor made for your roster, they have had 3 (kerr, luke, ,mike)coaches and didn't miss a beat

1 team out of 30 wins the championship. Of course any approach has a low probability. Building with draft picks and smart trades/signings is the least bad approach.

draft picks, trades, signings...is there any other way to acquire players?

You're asking if there's an alternative to keeping draft picks? Yeah, giving up draft picks to starphuck.

So your suggesting that we shouldn't give up picks for a current stars like, Irving, PG13, cj, cp3. kd, klay, love, ect.

There's like a 2% chance of a franchise drafting a super star, 5% chance of drafting a star, those odds are pretty damn low to make a case that that is the route to go.

This is kinda like when drafting high school players was the rage. People were so focused on not wanting to miss out on the next Kobe or Lebron but the reality was you were more likely to get the next Eddy Curry, Darius Miles, or Gerald Green.

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Good team

Warriors
Draft players. Also have spent millions for extra 2 nd rounders
Do not trade draft picks for players
Use free agency to acquire other players

Just one example. Could throw the Spurs in there-- could throw Boston in there

Is San Antonio giving up 2 lottery picks Znd 2 additional draft picks for anyone? No they never do
Draft opportunistic trade and straight free agency

GSW and the spurs have not won the last 12 NBA TITLES, NEWS flash, 20 others teams did not follow the spurs and GSW model and won titles trading away picks.
BUUUUUT

IF you want to copy the spurs, start with the ownership, then front office, then coach.

IF you want to be like GSW, get a system tailor made for your roster, they have had 3 (kerr, luke, ,mike)coaches and didn't miss a beat

1 team out of 30 wins the championship. Of course any approach has a low probability. Building with draft picks and smart trades/signings is the least bad approach.

draft picks, trades, signings...is there any other way to acquire players?

You're asking if there's an alternative to keeping draft picks? Yeah, giving up draft picks to starphuck.

So your suggesting that we shouldn't give up picks for a current stars like, Irving, PG13, cj, cp3. kd, klay, love, ect.

There's like a 2% chance of a franchise drafting a super star, 5% chance of drafting a star, those odds are pretty damn low to make a case that that is the route to go.

I'd have to comment on each one of those stars individually. And I have to know the specifics of the trade. There isn't a generally rule.
What team built a championship core by trading away lottery picks though?

The Celtics.

Cavs traded the number one pick for Love.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is scary time for Knicks.

You have a man proven to stink running the Knicks and an owner who has no use for anything thats isnt 100% proven with a name and has no boundaries in a trade with younger assets.

You bag those together and Knick fans will be screwed again. You know this is coming. Started with Antonio Mcdyess and has not stopped

So you're just going to continue following them anyway and whining about it constantly?

I've been following them my whole life. My firs game at the Garden was at 4-- that was 44 years ago with my dad. This is my team win lose or draw. I think most fans my age are just hoping the same people who have run the team so horribly will learn from mistakes. There is a fine line with trades-- the Knicks have made many errors trading players including Phil Jackson. Maybe stay away from big trades-- focus on opportunistic smaller ones saving cap space every few years drafting well and yes valuing 2 nd rounders and the d league. If we focus on organic growth-- steer clear of the thought process that we have Danny singe running the team( because he's not) and keep it simple-- well do better. Big mistakes in the nba take 3-5 years of correction-- maybe even longer.

That's all good and fine but...

"...and Knick fans will be screwed again. You know this is coming."

You expect and predict none of this will happen.

So what's the point?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Good team

Warriors
Draft players. Also have spent millions for extra 2 nd rounders
Do not trade draft picks for players
Use free agency to acquire other players

Just one example. Could throw the Spurs in there-- could throw Boston in there

Is San Antonio giving up 2 lottery picks Znd 2 additional draft picks for anyone? No they never do
Draft opportunistic trade and straight free agency

GSW and the spurs have not won the last 12 NBA TITLES, NEWS flash, 20 others teams did not follow the spurs and GSW model and won titles trading away picks.
BUUUUUT

IF you want to copy the spurs, start with the ownership, then front office, then coach.

IF you want to be like GSW, get a system tailor made for your roster, they have had 3 (kerr, luke, ,mike)coaches and didn't miss a beat

1 team out of 30 wins the championship. Of course any approach has a low probability. Building with draft picks and smart trades/signings is the least bad approach.

draft picks, trades, signings...is there any other way to acquire players?

You're asking if there's an alternative to keeping draft picks? Yeah, giving up draft picks to starphuck.

So your suggesting that we shouldn't give up picks for a current stars like, Irving, PG13, cj, cp3. kd, klay, love, ect.

There's like a 2% chance of a franchise drafting a super star, 5% chance of drafting a star, those odds are pretty damn low to make a case that that is the route to go.

I'd have to comment on each one of those stars individually. And I have to know the specifics of the trade. There isn't a generally rule.
What team built a championship core by trading away lottery picks though?

The Celtics.

Cavs traded the number one pick for Love.

What championship did the Celtics win?

Is this a serious question?

2008.

Up 3-2 in 2009 when Perkins blew out a knee.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:The report out now is that the Cavs are seeking a deal similar to the Melo deal for Kyrie. I find it interesting that the Melo deal seems to be the benchmark for a "haul", yet didn't include any future stars, veteran stars, or high draft picks in return. A return of Bledsoe, Warren, and the miami picks trumps the knicks package for melo, in my opinion.

Its going to cost atleast Willy G Frank N and 2 unrestricted #1 picks WITH carmelo to get Kyrie--if anyone pays that price--theyre simply stupid.

Yeah no thanks. I'll offer Melo and Frank (reluctantly) or a top 5 protected pick in place of Frank. Otherwise no deal. I'm just as happy developing Frank and taking that gamble on him. Kyrie is an incredible talent, but isn't an ideal fit with KP anyways.

Knickoftime wrote:tt

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Good team

Warriors
Draft players. Also have spent millions for extra 2 nd rounders
Do not trade draft picks for players
Use free agency to acquire other players

Just one example. Could throw the Spurs in there-- could throw Boston in there

Is San Antonio giving up 2 lottery picks Znd 2 additional draft picks for anyone? No they never do
Draft opportunistic trade and straight free agency

GSW and the spurs have not won the last 12 NBA TITLES, NEWS flash, 20 others teams did not follow the spurs and GSW model and won titles trading away picks.
BUUUUUT

IF you want to copy the spurs, start with the ownership, then front office, then coach.

IF you want to be like GSW, get a system tailor made for your roster, they have had 3 (kerr, luke, ,mike)coaches and didn't miss a beat

1 team out of 30 wins the championship. Of course any approach has a low probability. Building with draft picks and smart trades/signings is the least bad approach.

draft picks, trades, signings...is there any other way to acquire players?

You're asking if there's an alternative to keeping draft picks? Yeah, giving up draft picks to starphuck.

So your suggesting that we shouldn't give up picks for a current stars like, Irving, PG13, cj, cp3. kd, klay, love, ect.

There's like a 2% chance of a franchise drafting a super star, 5% chance of drafting a star, those odds are pretty damn low to make a case that that is the route to go.

I'd have to comment on each one of those stars individually. And I have to know the specifics of the trade. There isn't a generally rule.
What team built a championship core by trading away lottery picks though?

The Celtics.

Cavs traded the number one pick for Love.

What championship did the Celtics win?

Is this a serious question?

2008.

Up 3-2 in 2009 when Perkins blew out a knee.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:tt

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Good team

Warriors
Draft players. Also have spent millions for extra 2 nd rounders
Do not trade draft picks for players
Use free agency to acquire other players

Just one example. Could throw the Spurs in there-- could throw Boston in there

Is San Antonio giving up 2 lottery picks Znd 2 additional draft picks for anyone? No they never do
Draft opportunistic trade and straight free agency

GSW and the spurs have not won the last 12 NBA TITLES, NEWS flash, 20 others teams did not follow the spurs and GSW model and won titles trading away picks.
BUUUUUT

IF you want to copy the spurs, start with the ownership, then front office, then coach.

IF you want to be like GSW, get a system tailor made for your roster, they have had 3 (kerr, luke, ,mike)coaches and didn't miss a beat

1 team out of 30 wins the championship. Of course any approach has a low probability. Building with draft picks and smart trades/signings is the least bad approach.

draft picks, trades, signings...is there any other way to acquire players?

You're asking if there's an alternative to keeping draft picks? Yeah, giving up draft picks to starphuck.

So your suggesting that we shouldn't give up picks for a current stars like, Irving, PG13, cj, cp3. kd, klay, love, ect.

There's like a 2% chance of a franchise drafting a super star, 5% chance of drafting a star, those odds are pretty damn low to make a case that that is the route to go.

I'd have to comment on each one of those stars individually. And I have to know the specifics of the trade. There isn't a generally rule.
What team built a championship core by trading away lottery picks though?

The Celtics.

Cavs traded the number one pick for Love.

What championship did the Celtics win?

Is this a serious question?

2008.

Up 3-2 in 2009 when Perkins blew out a knee.

Ah I forgot they traded lottery picks there. Fair enough - good example. I thought you were talking about this year's Celtics. I'm not against trading lottery picks if you're getting an HOF level player. Kyrie to me is more like a top 40 player, though. The examples being given here already had 1 to 2 hall-of-famers before any decision to trade away lottery picks was made though. We don't even have anyone who's ever been in an all-star game recently. We don't have a definitive, good enough core already in place and aren't getting a good enough player to be giving up lottery picks.

Allen and Garnett were 31 & 31 at the time, and in 2007 Pierce was a very good player. He wasn't considered a Hall of Famer.